MorphZone

Intro thread and a bunch of questions.

Andreas_Wolf

# 51
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12155 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> they simply scrapped the idea

...and gave (sold?) everything developed for the project to that point to IBM, who completed the project and had someone else turn it into an actual product :-)

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7001&forum=3&start=147

> this however, made MorphOS reconsider the options, hence the support
> for existing PPC Mac HW

As a side note, the original plan (as per an early 2002 statement by Ralph Schmidt) was to commence work on a Mac port end of 2002.

> AeonKit [...] claim (with no shame) to do it at loss(!). And this road was collectively
> kamikaze-applauded as "the way forward" (for OS4). And pretty much still is.

There seem to exist conflicting information as to whether or not the NRE costs for Cyrus (Plus) board development are passed on to the customers (as wasn't done with the Nemo board). Do you know more?

Edit: statement regarding NRE costs of Cyrus (Plus)

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 08.02.2017 - 23:36 ]
»02.12.16 - 01:05

Andreas_Wolf

# 52
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12155 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

>>> I have OS4 Classic & OS4FE

>> Is that two versions? OS4.1FE is also avalable for "Classic" Amiga, I think.

> Yes, TWO versions, as originally OS4 was released, eventually, with an off-shoot
> version to support Classic PPC hardware, [...] and that was followed [...] by the OS4FE
> (Final Edition) which was for Classic hardware as well [...]. were you off sick that day,
> or have you just been day-dreaming again? 8-D

Neither, I was just confused as OS4.1FE exists for Classic so is a form of OS4 for Classic, so the distinction wasn't quite clear to me. Now I know that what you actually meant was OS4.0 Classic & OS4.1FE (Classic). Thanks :-)
»02.12.16 - 01:25

NewSense

# 53
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1513 from 2012/11/10

From: Manchester, UK/GB

I bought both OS4 Classic versions because I had every intention of going the . . . . OS4 route, as that seemed like the only option for me, as all my Amiga use software/hardware was WB1, WB2, WB3.

So, MorphOS seemed a 'step too far', but I was getting desperate for a NG Amiga solution, and so I 'dipped my toe in the water' of MorphOS by buying a MacMini, thinking - if it doesn't work out me using MorphOS I can always use Mac OSX with it.

I have to say though that MorphOS is a Fantastic Amiga migration/solution, if it can be considered to be that, which it certainly is for me, and hopefully for 3,000+ other users.

I also should say here and now, that MorphOS works many times better, quicker, than Mac OSX ever did on the same hardware, so kudos, yet again, to the MorphOS Development team for what they have achieved to bring this to us all.

It has a great legacy type Amiga feel, with all the advantages of having MUI built in, along with all the benefits of the G4/G5 hardware.
MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.18+,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5
»02.12.16 - 03:15

In_Correct

# 54
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14

From: DFW, TX, USA

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> you would think that they would [...] buy the Unix company.

Why should Apple have bought SCO in 1997 when what they wanted and needed was low-level user space code from FreeBSD?

> The Weather Channel didn't use Amigas but something very similar.

What would that be?

> If Commodore Amiga would have focused on selling computers to The Weather Channel
> for example then they would have been extremely successful.

You mean that channel had a need for millions of computers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeatherStar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Star_XL

Not any information on that article any more, but it said Motorola 68000 computer. The replacement is a MIPS computer.

They are now replaced by a X86 systems, but that is probably because X86 sold to businesses that needed them.

It is not just a channel. The Weather Channel is a nationwide weather coverage, with "Local On The 8s", ran by these computers. For every CATV (Community Antenna Television) office, they would have a Weather Channel computer for the nearest zip code. This would result in many computers Commodore Amiga could have designed and / or made.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_on_the_8s

Channels that actually used Amiga and Atari computers: Prevue, and Sneak Prevue. (neither channel exists anymore, and the programme guide is depreciated.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_(U.S._TV_network)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneak_Prevue
I Support Quark Microkernel.
»02.12.16 - 08:21

In_Correct

# 55
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14

From: DFW, TX, USA
Quote:
relyt wrote:
Quote:

amigadave wrote:
Quote:

NewSense wrote:
Quote:

relyt/tyler wrote: I'm going to turn the question around on you guys that have been around a while: What's your reason for using and supporting MorphOS/interest in Amiga?

Well for me, it's because the Amiga has always had the most elegant/intuitive OS that, so far, has been programmed, IMHO.

It's just a pity that most people of the era that it was programmed/released in remember it for just a gaming system, rather than looking into the useability of the OS itself.

Probably most of us who still use the Amiga, and other variants like MorphOS really appreciated what it is capable of, as it is the first truly multi-tasking OS, that actually 'does what it says on the tin' and have loved using it..

+1

The responsiveness of the AmigaOS1.0 to 3.1, even when run on an ancient 7MHz Motorola 68000 CPU, plus the amazing multi-tasking that actually works better than any version of Windows, or MacOSX, in my experience, is what impresses me the most, and keeps me wanting to use it. That plus the fact that the Amiga A1000 was my first personal computer, and first learning experience on any computer platform. What I learned on my A1000 allowed me to advance further and faster than all my fellow employees, and I credit the Amiga as an essential part of why someone like me, without a college degree, was able to attain the position of Director of Building & Safety, and Chief Building Official, which normally require at least a Bachelor's degree (in anything), and more often require post graduate education, or a Masters degree.

If only Commodore had spent more time and money further developing AmigaOS, and had upgraded the Amiga's hardware, to keep it far ahead of the IBM clones with Windows, or Mac's and MacOS, plus marketed it correctly to include business and education sales, the increased sales would have kept Commodore afloat and the computing world would be a very different place than it is today. Anyone who saw a side by side comparison of the Amiga A1000, one of the original monochrome Mac's, and IBM x86 clones, would clearly choose the Amiga, if comparable software was available for all three. Marketing the Amiga as primarily only a games machine doomed it from the very early days.

I'm glad you guys stick around to keep the essence Amiga alive. How odd that 30 years after the A1000 was introduced, everything Amiga is new to me. I've been wanting to add a A1000 or A500 to my computer collection, but they're incredibly expensive even today.

It seems to me like there is a big market for new Amiga systems in Europe. I've seen mention of an X1000 and other newer hardware offered by a few companies I've never heard of. I searched to see what an X1000 would cost, and the price was quite high. Beyond that, I don't think it was available for order. Am I opening a can of worms if I ask why this third party Amiga hardware is so expensive? A PowerPC machine and a registered copy of MorphOS seem to be the way to go if one needs an affordable Amiga-compatible system.

In the process of setting up my machine/learning stuff, I have installed Grunch for the purpose of installing software. I'm finding that some packages are either slow to download or download partially before an error is thrown. My Internet throughput is 50 / 5 (down / up) Mbps. Notably, the download for OWB was incredibly slow, and the download request for the MorphOS SDK threw an error. I was able to go online and successfully download both files from respective websites in a reasonable amount of time. If applicable, does Grunch automatically update its repository database? On Linux, one might have to enter (depending on package manager):
Code:
```
sudo apt-get update
```
to update the database of software repositories. I wondered if I may need to do something similar with Grunch.

Also, I would imagine there is some latency caused by requesting and retrieving packets across the Atlantic and across Europe. Would it be worthwhile to create a server here in the U.S.? If so, I might be able to offer some resources.
There were computers sold by Genesi, but now there are the SAM computer sold by aCube. These cost slightly less than the AmigaOne X1000 computers.
I Support Quark Microkernel.
»02.12.16 - 08:25

Jim

# 56
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

In_Correct wrote:
There were computers sold by Genesi, but now there are the SAM computer sold by aCube. These cost slightly less than the AmigaOne X1000 computers.

Acube rarely has boards or system available these days, and when they do it is only briefly.
This leads me to conclude they occasionally offer hardware based on boards that have been re-manufactured.

Obtaining either a Pegasos2 or a SAM460 these days usually means buying from an existing owner.

The X5000 is not available yet, but with the announcement of OS4.1 for the X5000 the systems should start shipping soon.
And the X5000 is priced lower than the X1000 was, plus while slightly higher in price than a SAM460, the performance should be much better.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»02.12.16 - 11:42

Andreas_Wolf

# 57
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12155 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> hopefully for 3,000+ other users. 8-D

User count is far from registration count.
»02.12.16 - 15:07

Jim

# 58
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> hopefully for 3,000+ other users.

User count is far from registration count.

Considering the number of people with multiple registrations, and how many have upgraded to newer systems that require an additional registration, most likely the number of users is far from the number of registrations.

Although there are a small number of situations where something else occurs.
I just bought an FW800 from redrumloa that is registered, SO that's two users, and one registration.
Every time a registered system changes hands this situation occurs.

Probably does not have a significant effect on the total situation though.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»02.12.16 - 15:47

Andreas_Wolf

# 59
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12155 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> now there are the SAM computer sold by aCube.

It's been a long time since they weren't out of stock at ACube.

> These cost slightly less than the AmigaOne X1000 computers.

Slightly? Price of the smallest Sam460 board as listed by ACube is between a fourth and a third of the last Nemo price as listed by AmigaKit.
»02.12.16 - 17:22

Andreas_Wolf

# 60
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12155 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> the X5000 is [...] slightly higher in price than a SAM460

Slightly? Cyrus Plus price as listed by Amiga On The Lake is 3 times the price of the smallest Sam460 board as listed by ACube.
»02.12.16 - 17:56

Andreas_Wolf

# 61
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12155 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

>> User count is far from registration count.

> Considering the number of people with multiple registrations, and how many have
> upgraded to newer systems that require an additional registration, most likely the
> number of users is far from the number of registrations.

Exactly.

> I just bought an FW800 from redrumloa that is registered, SO that's two users, and one
> registration. Every time a registered system changes hands this situation occurs.

I don't understand. After a registered system was sold to a new owner, how is the previous owner still a user of that system?
»02.12.16 - 17:56

Jim

# 62
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
>> User count is far from registration count.

> Considering the number of people with multiple registrations, and how many have
> upgraded to newer systems that require an additional registration, most likely the
> number of users is far from the number of registrations.

Exactly.

> I just bought an FW800 from redrumloa that is registered, SO that's two users, and one
> registration. Every time a registered system changes hands this situation occurs.

I don't understand. After a registered system was sold to a new owner, how is the previous owner still a user of that system?

As a former user of that system, both original owner and the new owner have gained experience from having used it while only one registration was sold.
So, yes one active user, but two that gain from one registration.

As opposed to multiple registrations being held by one user.
Pretty simple from my point of view.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»02.12.16 - 18:35

Andreas_Wolf

# 63
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12155 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> As a former user of that system, both original owner and the new owner have gained
> experience from having used it while only one registration was sold.

Yes, but not at the same time. If a registered system is sold to a new user, the old user becomes a former user of that system, so there's still only one user of that system at a time.

> So, yes one active user, but two that gain from one registration. [...] Pretty simple from
> my point of view.

Seems your definition of what a user of a system is differs from my definition. After all, there aren't millions of Amiga users out there, are there? ;-)
»02.12.16 - 18:57

amigadave

# 64
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21

From: Northern Calif...

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> As a former user of that system, both original owner and the new owner have gained
> experience from having used it while only one registration was sold.

Yes, but not at the same time. If a registered system is sold to a new user, the old user becomes a former user of that system, so there's still only one user of that system at a time.

> So, yes one active user, but two that gain from one registration. [...] Pretty simple from
> my point of view.

Seems your definition of what a user of a system is differs from my definition. After all, there aren't millions of Amiga users out there, are there?

I have to agree with Andreas here Jim. Your statement made little sense where the count of active MorphOS users is the question at hand. Most users who sell one of their MorphOS registered systems have 1 or more other registered MorphOS systems, but that does not change the fact that the actual number of active MorphOS users is not changed when one user sells a registered system to a new user, and that there are far less active users, than the number of registered licenses/key files, that have been mailed out by the MorphOS Dev. Team. That is not worded well, but I think you get the jist of what I am trying to say.

An existing user with multiple MorphOS systems does increase the number of active users by selling one of his registered MorphOS systems to a new (not a former user) non-MorphOS user, but that can't be reflected by the number of registered licenses/key files, because it is unknown publicly how many users have more than one registered license/key file.

My guess is that we have somewhere between 1,000 to 2,000 unique MorphOS users, and a possibility that the number is just slightly under 1,000.

[ Edited by amigadave 03.12.2016 - 14:59 ]
MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
»03.12.16 - 22:53

Andreas_Wolf

# 65
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12155 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> it is unknown publicly how many users have more than one registered license/key file.

It is even unknown to the MorphOS team as there's no reporting obligation about private sales. The MorphOS team wouldn't normally know whether the user who registered a certain system is still the owner of that registered system.
»03.12.16 - 23:50