Quote:

koszer,
Quote:

G5 support added should give the mother of all spikes

Just purchase an A1106 15" Powerbook, guess I'll have to buy a key for that when it arrives.

And my G5 will get a key ASAP.

Quote:

On Nov 8th?

Using MorphOS on my Mac Mini G4 1.5GHz

However, I have NO IDEA what my MorphOS licence number is, as I was never passed that in my registration email.

Where else might I find the licence number ?

[ Edited by NewSense 13.11.2012 - 01:14 ]

redrumloa wrote:,
Quote:

You think so?

I know that there seems to be quite a lot of interest in the bounty project to port MorphOS3.x to the G5 PowerMac, but I wonder how many people will actually buy and register a G5 PowerMac tower to run MorphOS3.x?

I know I will, and I know a dozen other users who will be registering a G5 PowerMac tower to run MorphOS3.x, but the G5 is big, heavy, and consumes a huge amount of electricity, so I doubt that it will be the computer of choice for many MorphOS users.

You forgot about one thing about G5 - it will be the most powerful MorphOS capable machine.

amigadave,
Quote:

In MorphOS and Amiga terms, yes I do. Look at the number of people who contributed to the bounty in just ~72 hours it took to meet the requirement. I also think a good number of PowerMac G4 users like myself will upgrade to a G5 in a heartbeat.

We shall see but I suspect many people are like me and are very excited.

pampers,
Quote:

It is without a doubt the most powerful PPC hardware available, period.

#1670 on 12th November - PB 5,9

...got the key in about 15 minutes

redrumloa wrote:,
Quote:

I am not arguing with your statements, as much as I am wondering out loud just how many MorphOS users will choose to upgrade to a G5 from their current G4 MorphOS3.1 computers, since there is very little software that needs the extra power that the G5 provides.

I understand that many users will just want to have the most powerful MorphOS3.x system available, even if there is almost zero software that requires the extra power. I also hope that having the extra power of the higher clocked G5 PowerMac's will allow programmers the inspiration and opportunity to port more demanding software to MorphOS3.x in the near future.

There is also the yet to be seen benchmarks of MorphOS3.1 running on a 2.0GHz G4, compared to a 2.0GHz G5 PowerMac. Remember when the G5's were first released and some MacOSX applications did not run any faster on the 1.6GHz G5 compared to the 1.42GHz & 1.67GHz G4's? It will be interesting to see if MorphOS3.x applications and/or games have the same problem running on the G5, when compared to the fast G4 CPU's.

I certainly have not forgotten that the G5 will be the fastest MorphOS3.x computer, when it is finally supported. Specially the Dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac model, which I own and look forward to running MorphOS3.x on. I am just saying that for MorphOS3.1 users who currently have a 1.8GHz, or 2.0GHz G4 PowerMac that runs MorphOS3.1 blazingly fast now, I would not automatically think that they would switch to the G5 PowerMac's, until we have benchmark comparison's that prove the G5's superiority when running MorphOS3.x.

My hope is that MorphOS3.x can be optimized and tweaked to run the best it can on the G5 CPU, and certainly being able to use the stock SATA controller on the G5 motherboard is a plus over the 2 or 3 IDE controllers of the G4 PowerMac motherboard.

There are also some (not many) negative aspects of the G5 case design, with the limitation of only one 5.25" Optical drive bay, while the G4 PowerMac case provides two 5.25" Optical drive bays. Fan control will be a must have with the G5 case design and it's 7 internal fans. If all those fans were to run full speed all the time, I doubt many users would enjoy the experience, plus it would wear out the fans sooner.

I am not trying to dampen the excitement surrounding the port of MorphOS3.x to the G5 PowerMac. I just wonder how many users will actually pull the trigger and purchase one of these beasts and then register MorphOS3.x to run on it. I hope that you both are correct and that we will see a few hundred new MorphOS3.x registrations within the first few months after the G5 port of MorphOS3.x is completed.

amigadave,
Quote:

Strongly disagree. MorphOS is not a novelty here. Since having to give up the workshop I only have room for one computer in the bedroom/office and it is a Powermac G4. I use MorphOS daily and lately almost exclusively. I've used both a 1.25Ghz MDD and a 2.0Ghz QS. While the nicest and fastest Amiga-like exzperience IMO, the speed certainly could improve. Even the 2.0Ghz QS was limited to 720p video. I watch a lot of videos and use Youtube extensively. In 2012 all computer users should have 1080p capability. With high end G5 this should be doable. We Amigans/Morphians use a lot of emulation, there is never enough speed. I accomplish most tasks on MorphOS and the more the speed, the less likely I will have to go to another room and fire up a PC. Even OWB rendering some web pages eats massive CPU, the more power the better.

[ Edited by redrumloa 12.11.2012 - 21:27 ]

@NewSense:

Quote:

It's right there. Your payment link should (hopefully) look like that:

Code:

And we're interested in the /payment/9999? fragment, that means your licence number is 9999 (heh, maybe someday...).

amigadave,
Quote:

IIRC Fab confirmed that full hd video on G5 (2.7GHz) was _not_ driving the processor to the max (and that was on the unoptimized). Hence I expect at least in this regard any G5 will outperform all G4s. It's not only the faster processor, but also the bus. I think video and browsing is the most cpu demanding every day application. The G5 will bring a significant performance boost on these fields.
But I also share your view that many ppl will stay with their G4s. Albeit I'd appreciate more cpu power I will probably do so myself since I don't like big boxes (mini, Efika and Powerbook rule here, Pegasos is put to the attic) and am trying to keep my energy footprint rather low.

@amigadave

Quote:

Not quite true:

1) Odyssey
2) MPlayer

Web pages are constantly getting more and more complex, I recently examined a common web page, a newspaper's website (I had a text editor search/count the page source for various html-elements), and it had over 750 separate divs (many had CSS styles attached to them (the CSS had more than 3000 entities, although not everyone used on every page of course)), it had some 20 javascripts, it had close to 100 images, and several other media objects.

Movies today uses codec's and resolutions that requires a lot from the HW of a system to decode and stream data at the required bandwidth. Being able to decode and view .264 720p movies on the faster models of the G4 Macs is of course great, but in some senses it's only "half way there" when much content (both on the Internet and perhaps your own recorded home videos of your family vacation etc, if you are using semi-modern equipment) is using 1080i/1080p. 1920x1080 monitors are extremely cheap today, I am using one with my Mac Mini, and it would be more than nice to be able to play videos at their (and the monitors) full, native resolution.

This "but who would need all that power anyway" mantra is usually seen coming from OS4 people who...

1) Have too slow HW anyway (true in 99% of the cases)
2) Lacks decent releases of the required, relevant applications (compared to MorphOS's versions of Odyssey and MPlayer)
3) Favors an OS that has limitations and lack features (being slower, poor drivers, no overlay, etc)

...hence don't use their "Amiga" for these kind of things in a serious manner, and comes up with various "Amiga was never about CPU power" crap to comfort themselves and feel better about the fact that it's simply not possible for them to use their system of choice for "simple" things like viewing embedded youtube clips or watching any kind of HD video content, not even 720p. I remember when Amiga users could buy external decoding HW for simply being able to play MP3's when their computing power wasn't enough. That was never a "feature" I liked. I see parallels with the current situation.

Having a "powerful" system (these aren't even "powerful" by today's measurements, not in any way, not even the G5) isn't meaningful only for people encoding videos and rendering 3D images/videos, but for the common everyday use, at least if you are using the Internet (web) and play modern media content. HTML5 will increase this need even more as it emerges for real, on a broad scale, and when websites switches over to HTML5/JS as a Flash replacement. The PPC will always be a limiting factor, not an enabler. But at least the G5 raises the bar a bit.



[ Edited by takemehomegrandma 13.11.2012 - 13:21 ]

I haven't purchased my key yet. Mostly because I can't decide on what Mac I want to run MOS on. I am new to MOS since 08-2012. I have no Amiga history or software to carry forward but come in fresh. For me MOS is a Hobby OS and to give some life to some old hardware. Currently I have MOS 3.1 on a mac G4-500DP 1GB RAM, and ATI 9000 Video. To me it runs fine. I do have faster G4 QS, a 1.25 Mac Mini and even a G5 PowerMac. For me is that I have a Mac OS9 gaming machine that can run MOS or to find room to add yet another machine to my KVM. Even though the G4-500 is nothing to get excited over computing wise it may end up the machine I license in the end.

I think having G5 support would be great for MOS but isn't a deciding factor in me licensing MOS. I just checked eBay and reputable Mac dealers have G5 dual CP PowerMacs starting at $99 plus shipping for machines with 2+GB RAM. It's almost a no brainer to get the G5 over the G4 Mini except for the size/power differences.

koszer,
Quote:
Thanks for explaining where the licence code number is situated, but I don't have that information anymore.

Well that's a new level of ... failing to explain what the payment URL means when you make payment ... what sort of a stupid idea is that, and why is it not explained better, and in any case included with the email with your keyfile?

Anyway I've sent an email off to the team asking them to send me the licence code, it's all a bit ridiculous.

UPDATE

Fast reply from MorphOS support, and my Licence number is #1650

[ Edited by NewSense 14.11.2012 - 01:31 ]

NewSense,
Quote:

I think you misunderstand the whole idea behind this thread. The MorphOS team does not give out license numbers. Early on some users figured out the url appeared to give a count of the license numbers.

This whole thread is done by fans. I doubt the MorphOS team will response to your request for lincense number. They don't involve themselves in this.

redrumloa,
Quote:

Again you seem to be missing the point of my postings in this thread. I am not saying that more speed and power are not good things. I am just questioning how many of the 1,000+ MorphOS applications, games & utilities really will benefit from the power and speed of a 2.0GHz, or faster G5, when compared to a 1.42GHz or faster G4 MorphOS3.x computer (is it 1,000+, or 2,000+ MorphOS compatible applications, games, & utilities that are available now?).

There might be 5, 10, or even 15 applications, games, or utilities that you can list that will greatly benefit from a fast G5 PowerMac, but that would translate to less than 0.5%, 1.0%, or 1.5% of the available MorphOS3.1 compatible software. If I am wrong and the actual number of software titles that are MorphOS3.1 compatible that will benefit from the G5 is more like 30 to 50, or 100, then I would like to see a list of such software that will run significantly better on a G5 than it does on a fast G4.

Granted, faster web browsing and video content playback are two of the most used functions that people use their computers for, so the importance of using a G5 should perhaps be weighted differently than by the actual number of applications that will benefit from using a G5, to instead measuring the amount of time spent on your computer and what you are doing with it and how much of that time will be sped up, by using a G5, instead of using a G4.

From what I have read from a few knowledgeable MorphOS3.1 users, the other advantage of using a faster clocked G5, instead of the fastest G4 PowerMac computers, is that the G5 CPU will be able to better supply video content to the R300 series Radeon video cards, once they are fully 3D supported in the near future.

For MorphOS3.1 users who want the maximum performance in all facets of their computing use while running MorphOS3.1, getting a G5 certainly makes sense. For other MorphOS3.1 users who use their MorphOS3.1 computers less, and depend on other Windows, or MacOSX, or Linux computers for most of their web browsing and video play back, or 3D rendering tasks, they may not feel that the extra electric usage and space of a G5 PowerMac tower fits their needs. I think you can agree with me that a G5 PowerMac is not for everyone and that the size, weight, and power usage are certainly factors that are important to some users.

I am with you Red, I want the most powerful MorphOS3.x computing experience, and I hope to transition into using MorphOS3.x for most of my computing needs, possibly 100% of my computing needs some day, but now that my Son has gotten me interested in one or two MMO games that can't be played on any MorphOS3.x, or Amiga type of computer, I doubt that I will be able to go 100% MorphOS3.x, for all of my computing needs, unless I say that MorphOS3.x meets all my needs, and I only use other computers for fun. That might be possible with my Dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac, after the port of MorphOS3.x to the G5 is completed.

Edit: Not all of us Amigan's/MorphOS users do a lot of emulation on our Amiga, or MorphOS computers, but some do. I can't remember when I last emulated anything on any of my Amiga, or MorphOS computers, but that is just me.

I have wasted way too much bandwidth on this argument. Let us just wait until the port of MorphOS3.x is released for the G5 PowerMac and see how it affects the steepness of the graph of MorphOS registrations, then we can argue about who was right and who was wrong. Since I am always for more growth and more registrations, I will be happy to be proved wrong.

[ Edited by amigadave 13.11.2012 - 14:06 ]

@redrumloa,

I love your enthusiasm, what would it take to have you at the MorphOS display table during the 2013 AmiWest Show? The dates are already set and the show has been extended to a full 3 days, instead of the traditional 2 days plus Friday evening, so there is a very good chance that the AmiWest organizing committee will be doing their best to fill those 3 days with more exciting content. I would like to have several MorphOS users there with me to help out in preparing and presenting MorphOS3.x content, so the show is not only dominated by AmigaOS4.x content, Classic AmigaOS3.x content, or AROS content.

With 3 full days of show, we definitely need more MorphOS3.1 representation and promotion than I can provide alone.

Most MorphOS users from Europe, or the UK can't afford the expense of traveling to the USA for a show, but you are much closer and can probably find decent priced airline tickets, if you buy them far enough in advance. I guarantee a good time and MorphOS interest has been growing each year, so I really need the help during the show, demonstrating and/or presenting MorphOS3.x. No matter how much I want to do it, I am lousy at doing presentations of MorphOS during the AmiWest Shows.

Think about it, and if you are even slightly interested, let me know.

@amigadave

I will do my level best to be at AmiWest this coming year...I was gutted when I realized that I had travelled on business over it this year. The plus side for me is that I live only 20 mins away from the show

I've no idea what state my Powerbook G4 will be in by then, only just got round to installing 3.1 and a couple of old apps from my MorphOS backups

With any luck there will be WiFi support in the OS by then so I don't have to be tethered to a desk.

amigadave,
Quote:

I don't see it as an argument, just a difference of opinion. My opinion is just I expect a good number of users jumping to the G5. I don't see 1,000 in a month or any nonsense like that. I am hopeful a few hundred in a couple months with an even steeper steady climb from there. We'll see.

amigadave,
Quote:

While I genuinely appreicate your promotion of MorphOS at Amiwest, the chances of my going in 2013 is just about 0. There are many reasons including likely financial, but the biggest is distance. The trip to Amiwest and back is literally about 6,200 miles. I don't fly anymore because I don't like my 4th Amendment rights being violated.

Besides, Amiwest is still primarily an OS4 promotion event. I've been pretty vocal that my opinion of OS4 has recently gone from neutral to strongly negative. Me attending an event like Amiwest may be counter productive

[ Edited by redrumloa 13.11.2012 - 18:29 ]

redrumloa,
Quote:

Interesting, with the announcement of the development of Warp 3D drivers for the Radeon HD cards I'm warming up a little.

> is it 1,000+, or 2,000+ MorphOS compatible applications, games, & utilities
> that are available now?

http://morphos.lukysoft.cz lists about 1500, and that is not taking into account the thousands of even older AmigaOS programs (from Aminet etc.) that happen to run on MorphOS.

> faster web browsing and video content playback are two of the most used
> functions that people use their computers for, so the importance of using
> a G5 should perhaps be weighted differently than by the actual number
> of applications that will benefit from using a G5, to instead measuring the
> amount of time spent on your computer and what you are doing with it and
> how much of that time will be sped up, by using a G5, instead of using a G4.

Fully agreed.

> From what I have read from a few knowledgeable MorphOS3.1 users, the other
> advantage [...] is that the G5 CPU will be able to better supply video content to the
> R300 series Radeon video cards, once they are fully 3D supported in the near future.

I think you may have misunderstood. For sure the G5 CPU can decode (high def) video content better than the G4 CPU, but for viewing CPU-decoded video content the 3D functionality of the GPU is not used.

> I can't remember when I last emulated anything on any of my Amiga,
> or MorphOS computers, but that is just me.

Everytime you run ARexx you're emulating an m68k CPU on your MorphOS computer ;-) Admittedly, this doesn't even require a G4 to run fast enough.