I know we have several excellent tutorials and programming articles as available resources for those of us who wish to learn how to program for MorphOS, but I was thinking of what might be even better, and/or more effective at helping programming challenged persons like myself to become productive MorphOS programmers.

I know that the best of our existing MorphOS developers and third party programmers are busy with their own lives and work, plus they put what little time they have into contributing to MorphOS development, or their own programming projects, but perhaps one, two or three of them could find 1 to 2 hours per week to teach and mentor potential new MorphOS programmers, using both IRC and the existing programming resources, plus maybe some short outlines they could draft to give the group some direction.

Our existing MorphOS Dev. Team, and a very small group of third party programmers, are a very valuable resource that we cannot afford to let slip away without passing on their knowledge and expertise to a new generation of programmers. We are lucky that most MorphOS Developers and Programmers have stuck around as long as they have, but people do leave occasionally and we don't want their knowledge and experience to be completely lost.

I would be willing to pay for such a teaching experience, something like $10 per week, maybe. If there were 5 to 10 other people interested in learning from one or two of our best developers, we could perhaps raise $50 to $100 per week to compensate that one, or two developers for their 1 to 2 hours per week of their time. I know that this small amount is only a fraction of what their time is actually worth, but unless we can find 30 to 50 people to pay the $10 per week, there is no way to adequately compensate the teachers for their true value to the group.

Does anyone else think that this idea could work, and if yes, would you be willing to be one of the students, or one of the teachers?

[ Edited by amigadave 30.04.2013 - 15:05 ]

Previously, when I've gotten stuck on something specific but also with some less well defined issues, I've started threads here and then gone onto further questions and discussion via email with people that have offered helpful replies.

IMHO the most useful thing a beginner can do is dream up their own project, no matter how modest or trivial it might be, play with the compiler and, through habitual use, get familiar with the development tools and the general development process. The cycle of writing, compiling, bug hunting / understanding the compiler output and testing a freshly compiled executable becomes less alien and the projects that get dreamed up become more ambitious. Go ahead and make mistakes - what's the worst that can happen?

I may be interested.

@Krashan,

Great! I'll try to find several other programming students that are willing to pay for programming instruction.

I think I will word the announcement of other Amiga forum sites without using MorphOS in the title, but change it to MUI programming instruction, so those who have any objection toward MorphOS will still be able to take advantage of the instruction on their AmigaOS3.x, or AmigaOS4.x systems.

I imagine this being for inexperienced beginning programmers who are just starting out and finding it difficult in gaining any momentum, or sustaining their progress in learning how to be a programmer (that is how I see myself anyway).

Would that be okay with you Krashan?

I think I will word the announcement of other Amiga forum sites without using MorphOS in the title, but change it to MUI programming instruction, so those who have any objection toward MorphOS will still be able to take advantage of the instruction on their AmigaOS3.x, or AmigaOS4.x systems.

Note however, that for beginners there are significant differencies between these systems in simple things like "how to get the compiler installed and running". Also AmigaOS 4 SDK has no official support for MUI AFAIR...

[ Edited by Krashan 03.05.2013 - 22:30 ]

What are the options for us who doesn't know anything about programming but want to learn at least some on MOS (and AOS4 or AROS)?

The good old Amiga had plenty of teach yourself books, but there are none for NG Amiga system right? And besides the beginners guide of E (via PortablE) I havn't really found any good guides for noobs (and the E guide is not that great for total noobs like myself).

I wanna help. I wanna contribute. But the ways I can is very limited by this.

Krashan wrote some nice tutorials available here in the library. Start here: http://library.morph.zone/First_steps_in_MorphOS_programming .
As for learning C in general (the language itself is OS agnostic) any book on C will do.

Krashan,
Quote:

I can not make it to Poland, but there has to be some way of conferencing.

btw What's the status of these parts of the current tutorial? I'm particularly interested in the last one.

Subclassing Numeric Class and its Subclasses
Subclassing Area Class
MUI Text Rendering Engine

Are more bounty contributions required?

Isn't it better to create a bounty for MUI tutorials and for some support.
(Support means some questions could be answered and collected/put to a faq doc)

Many of us
1. Living in different time zone
2. Have a family
3. Are busy, because the summer is coming and being on holiday/gardening/going out/etc.
and it is not so easy to find a regular time, which is good for every participants.

An on-line training could be also good, but... A bounty is the best solution.
A document like this could be also a plus for MOS.

It could be also on a google site with forum.

[ Edited by dekanyz 06.05.2013 - 18:37 ]

There is one (just throw the link into translator):

http://morphos.pl/projekt.php?projekt=6

I don't mind using a translator on French (most copy comes out close to perfect).
German is harder (and less readable).
But Polish? Translators stumble hard on this language.
I'm not sure why, but it really makes me glad that Pamper is so good at communicating in the only language I am truly competent at (and even that contention is questionable).

After reading this thread and also Amiga.org and AmigaWorld.net threads I have to say I'm no more interested.

I will continue with my MorphOS programming tutorials as parts of MorphOS Programmer's Handbook project. I will also contribute them to MorphZone Library. I want to remind that this activity is covered by a MorphZone bounty. The one mentioned by Pampers is just for Polish versions. For any programming questions I'm also reachable at #morphos channel on irc.freenode.net, usually from 8:00 to 21:00 CET.

I know quite a bit about OpenGL, if anyone else is interested in that.

Thanks khrashan,
The work that you have posted already has proven very informative and useful.

After considering what you have said and the basic points in this thread, I think you might be right.
Better documentation suits me fine.

And I can refer to it anytime I need help.

So, is there an area that anyone thinks needs better documentation?

Krashan wrote:,
Quote:

I am sorry to read that you are no longer interested in teaching programming through this proposed project of mine. Is it because I tried to make it a general programming class, and not MorphOS specific, or is there some other reason for you losing interest in this project?

I will continue to support the bounties for the work you have already started and posted to the MorphZone Library, regardless of your reasons for no longer wanting to participate as a teacher for this project.

Is it because I tried to make it a general programming class, and not MorphOS specific

Yes, covering also AmigaOS 3/4 would triple the effort needed. I guess my time is best utilized with writing and publishing articles into MPH and MorphZone Library.

[ Edited by Krashan 10.05.2013 - 19:13 ]

IMO, the best thing is to get a "Teach yourself C programming" book and the latest SDK. Its been ages since I cracked open any C code, so I'm reading my book again. Pretty much alot of stuff works but some stuff doesnt. ie. some header files are not the same ones like used in standard C, no graphics.h, dos.h etc.

The SDK is very well put together. Scribble works great and I love that standard UNIX shell commands like ls, cp etc are included with it.

Read the C-Book from Kernighan and Richie and get the Rom Kernel Reference Manuals in order to learn AmigaOS-Programming.
The RKRMs are on the latest AmigaOS-Developper CD (e.g. Vesalia still has it).

[ Edited by Tom01 16.05.2013 - 12:31 ]

Krashan,
Quote:

I "admire" your work done on progamming tutorials for Morphos, it's really too bad that you're the only one doing it. In the meantime http://wiki.amigaos.net is improving a lot and for a developer standpoint it's always better to go to the well documented platform. (programming wise)

Regard
Kamelito

Quote:

This should help: http://amigadev.elowar.com/

Also search Aminet for ACM and ACM_PDF

You can find scans of many old Amiga coding books on http://bombjack.org/commodore and http://amiga-manuals.xiik.net/amiga.php

Plus the only C reference book worth reading is http://bit.ly/NgUkHW

[ Edited by Intuition 06.08.2013 - 07:34 ]

Thanks for all the links and advice about self teaching resources, but if that would have worked, I would already be an experienced programmer by now.

My hope was to find 1 to 3 experienced AmigaOS/MorphOS/AROS programmers who would be interested in spending a small amount of their spare time teaching programming to a few interested students who are willing to donate money for the time spent by the teacher(s).

Learning from someone who has already been down this path would be infinitely more productive than trying to learn without any guidance, or positive reinforcement and correction, if/when I start going off in the wrong direction.

I was thinking of a very small time commitment from the teacher(s), perhaps only 1 to 2 hours a week on their part to prepare a few examples, give advice on what materials to study next, and answer some specific questions either through email, or via IRC session for 30 minutes each week.

I can understand that such a plan may not be appealing to any experienced programmers, as they probably have more important, or more enjoyable ways of spending some of their spare time to make a few extra dollars, but it was worth my effort to ask the question and try to find one or more experienced programmers and find out that no one is interested in participating, than not trying and just wondering if it might have been possible to find one or more teacher who would say yes.



[ Edited by amigadave 07.08.2013 - 10:02 ]

Dave, the only way you will learn without going to a college and taking a basic programming class is to teach yourself.

In fact even then when you are being taught by a teacher, most of what you learn will come from yourself by playing around, experimenting and breaking and fixing stuff.

Most of those with CS degrees will have already known how to code before they even got to University as they taught themselves by trial and error as teenagers.

The best advice I can give you (I'm a fully qualified Post-Graduate CS teacher) is for you to get ONE good tutorial book for a language and stick with it until you have finished every page in the book. Keep to the one book and don't be tempted to switch to another half way through.

If you want to learn C++ (I personally reccomend it over C as a first laguage as is simplfies some of the harder concepts, others may will disagree) then there are two books I can recommend. The first throws you right in at the deep end right from the beginning but will make you a better programmer and make you understand what the concepts you are being taught actually do. The second holds your hand all the way through and is written in a master/student corresepondence style.

http://www.amazon.com/Accelerated-C-Practical-Programming-Example/dp/020170353X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375908940&sr=1-1&keywords=accelerated+c%2B%2B

http://www.amazon.com/Whos-Afraid-Programming-Primer-PC/dp/0123390974/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375908974&sr=1-1&keywords=who%27s+afraid+of+c%2B%2B

Once you've mastered C++ as a "fancier C" you'll have no trouble picking up C development from K&R's "The C Programming Language" reference book and won't need a tutorial book to learn it.

At that point you can then start learning the Amiga API's from the other links posted in this thread and Krashan's excellent MorphOS Programmer's Handbook (I'm reading it myself at the moment as i'm writing Amiga code for the first time in a VERY long time).

Seriously. Get one book (Preferably the first). Complete it. Get K&R. Then start learning the Amiga API.

The whole process will take at least six months and won't be easy but you can always ask questions here or on one of the many C/C++ forums out there.

As with all advice, you are free to ignore all of the above and I won't be offended. ;)

@Everyone else, feel free to correct anything I've said or even call BS on it. ;)

Quote:

I thought I would revive this thread to add some new ideas & questions into the mix, and to see if any of your opinions have changed since I first started this thread.

I am thinking of looking for, or creating a new website if I can't find any that are close to matching what I need/want. A website for all people who are interested in learning to program for and/or on MorphOS. It could even be just a new forum section on this site, if the MorphZone.org webmaster feels that such an addition of one or more forum sections would be worth his effort in setting it up.

I would like to have a forum website where I could go (or a section of this site with one or more new forums created), to ask programming questions, post example code and have it critiqued and commented upon by more experienced programmers, and where those experienced programmers could post threads suggesting how to accomplish certain programming tasks that are often needed, or give tips and tricks that normal beginning programmers don't usually learn about until they have been coding for years and learn just by trial and error. Tutorials could also be posted, like they are here in our library section. People who are trying to teach themselves how to program could discuss their problems and successes with others who are traveling down this same path, or even collaborate on some programming projects together, as they learn and improve their skills.

Personally, I continue to purchase additional programming books, with my most recent additions being two books on learning Open GL, but those will be waiting for many months, if not years, before I am ready to start coding my own 3D games, or CAD application for MorphOS. As Hollywood continues to grow and add more features to its massive list, it becomes even more attractive as a target for me to learn, maybe even trying to learn to use it first, since I believe that it is a higher level programming language, and therefore should be easier to learn to use than C, or C++, or even AmigaE. I have already purchased almost every version and add-on for Hollywood, but just need to update my copy to any changes or additions added within the last 6 to 12 months.

I have still more moving to finish this month, and a construction project to help a friend with next month, which will both take up all of my free time, but I hope by the end of this year to be settled in at the new house and be ready to spend several hours each week, solely dedicated to learning how to program on MorphOS.

Can anyone who is in charge of the forums and sections here tell me if it is possible to set up some new forums in a new section dedicated to learning how to program on MorphOS? I am sure that there are a few other members here who are interested, and who would use such forums, as well as maybe a few new MorphOS users who want to learn how to program on MorphOS.

Perhaps just adding one or two new forums to the existing "Development" section would suffice to give us a place for new programmers to hang out and ask their questions, or discuss their projects with each other?

[ Edited by amigadave 11.08.2015 - 00:15 ]

Quote:

In addition to the existing one in the users section, there is now a beginners forum in the development section as well.