gfx driver requests
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Sorty, got the machines mixed up.

    A cheap 9250 then.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »04.03.14 - 20:57
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > making a reasonable request (how do you plan to support SAM460ex when RadeonHD
    > is its default card beyond integrated 2D) is needed. I am also willing to donate towards
    > its goal, which is not my personal benefit, but of all high end G5 Macs and SAM460ex

    Drivers for Radeon HD cards won't benefit G5 Macs, as you were told already:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=1215&start=94
  • »04.03.14 - 21:02
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Isnt there a spare PCI slot where you can insert PCI Radeon?

    It's probably not spare with most Sam460 boards ;-)
  • »04.03.14 - 21:03
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Isnt there a spare PCI slot where you can insert PCI Radeon?

    It's probably not spare with most Sam460 boards ;-)



    Why not use the X1 PCI-E slot?
    There are 2D video cards that can utilize this interface.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.03.14 - 22:25
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Isnt there a spare PCI slot where you can insert PCI Radeon?

    >> It's probably not spare with most Sam460 boards ;-)

    > Why not use the X1 PCI-E slot? There are 2D video cards that can utilize this interface.

    There's even Radeon up to HD6450 for PCIe x1 but the question was for a card that is already fully supported by MorphOS now (for whatever reason). There is no such PCIe card of any kind (even though there're PCIe cards with R300 GPU, which are X300, X550 and X1050 with RV370 and X600 with RV380).
  • »05.03.14 - 00:17
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> Isnt there a spare PCI slot where you can insert PCI Radeon?

    >> It's probably not spare with most Sam460 boards ;-)

    > Why not use the X1 PCI-E slot? There are 2D video cards that can utilize this interface.

    There's even Radeon up to HD6450 for PCIe x1 but the question was for a card that is already fully supported by MorphOS now (for whatever reason). There is no such PCIe card of any kind (even though there're PCIe cards with R300 GPU, which are X300, X550 and X1050 with RV370 and X600 with RV380).


    Interesting point.
    I also like the four head X1XXX based FireMV 2400 (again, not supported).
    One of those in the X1 slot and something similar in the PCI or PCI-E X4 slot and you have the potential for 6 to 8 concurrent displays (again, not yet supported).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.03.14 - 00:34
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I also like the four head X1XXX based FireMV 2400 (again, not supported).

    The FireMV 2400 (which besides PCIe x1 also comes as PCI version btw) has the RV380, which is X600, not X1xxx. But as the question was about a PCI card that's already supported (in theory at least), the FireMV 2200 PCI with RV280 would be more apt.

    > One of those in the X1 slot and something similar in the PCI or PCI-E X4 slot

    Using the PCIe x1 slot disables onboard SATA, so you'd need a SATA card in the PCI slot, which only leaves the PCIe x4 slot (with x16 connector).
  • »05.03.14 - 01:20
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Then I was misinformed about the FireMV 2400, but the RV380 could be easily supported.

    The FireMV 2250 PCI could also be interesting.

    I am, however, confused as my info list the FireMV 2250 as an RV516 GPU.

    Still, quite a range of possibilities in these options, eh?

    [ Edited by Jim 05.03.2014 - 01:59 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.03.14 - 02:29
    Profile
  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    itix wrote:
    Isnt there a spare PCI slot where you can insert PCI Radeon?

    Anyway, it is all premature because MorphOS 3.6 is not out.


    Sadly no, PCI port goes to SATA controller because onboard SATA has only one device.

    You say premature, I say think about tommorow.

    onboard gfx is 2D only and slower then old school Parmedia.
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
    Telegram Amiga group: https://t.me/amigaranchorelaxo
  • »05.03.14 - 08:40
    Profile
  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > making a reasonable request (how do you plan to support SAM460ex when RadeonHD
    > is its default card beyond integrated 2D) is needed. I am also willing to donate towards
    > its goal, which is not my personal benefit, but of all high end G5 Macs and SAM460ex

    Drivers for Radeon HD cards won't benefit G5 Macs, as you were told already:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=1215&start=94


    Why, I believe high end Macs have PCI-E?

    Ok, then its SAM460ex thing, and something anyway has to be done
    for transition to x86, or you believe we shall use Radeons 9600/9800 and 1xxx for ever? Somedays I feel stupid I have gave my ATI All In wonder Radon PCIE 2006 away since it has chip MOS could possibly support (1300 series). Should I get it back?
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
    Telegram Amiga group: https://t.me/amigaranchorelaxo
  • »05.03.14 - 08:43
    Profile
  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I also like the four head X1XXX based FireMV 2400 (again, not supported).

    The FireMV 2400 (which besides PCIe x1 also comes as PCI version btw) has the RV380, which is X600, not X1xxx. But as the question was about a PCI card that's already supported (in theory at least), the FireMV 2200 PCI with RV280 would be more apt.

    > One of those in the X1 slot and something similar in the PCI or PCI-E X4 slot

    Using the PCIe x1 slot disables onboard SATA, so you'd need a SATA card in the PCI slot, which only leaves the PCIe x4 slot (with x16 connector).


    That is correct. Since I have SATA card and onboard SATA is one device only anyway, all I could use is PCIE x4 card which is not monster (limited space) or low profile and PCIE x1 card, but I am not sure does Uboot supports it as primary display.

    This are all REALLY serious question day next MOS version pops up and I try to install it.

    Radeon 9250 is difficult to find, even I would like to stick it next to my Radeon 6870HD on X1000 just to see some 3D.
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
    Telegram Amiga group: https://t.me/amigaranchorelaxo
  • »05.03.14 - 08:46
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Then I was misinformed about the FireMV 2400

    Maybe you confused it with the FireMV 2200 PCIe (x16), which has the RV370 and would thus be similar to the X1050.

    > The FireMV 2250 PCI could also be interesting.

    I was not aware that there is a PCI version of that card, just PCIe x1 and x16.

    > I am, however, confused as my info list the FireMV 2250 as an RV516 GPU.

    This seems to be correct. FireMV model naming seems even less transparent than for normal Radeon series.
  • »05.03.14 - 09:33
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Drivers for Radeon HD cards won't benefit G5 Macs, as you were told already:
    > https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=1215&start=94

    > Why, I believe high end Macs have PCI-E?

    As you have been told several times now in various threads, the last Radeon card that came with a PPC ROM was the X1900 (which is probably flashable onto x86 ROM X1950 cards), and the PPC Mac OpenFirmware lacks an x86 emulator so can't initialize non-PPC cards.

    > you believe we shall use Radeons 9600/9800 and 1xxx for ever?

    What I do or don't believe doesn't have any impact on the MorphOS Team's future plans anyway.
  • »05.03.14 - 10:15
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    Quote:

    itix wrote:
    Isnt there a spare PCI slot where you can insert PCI Radeon?


    Sadly no, PCI port goes to SATA controller because onboard SATA has only one device.


    Well, according to this page you can use both the PCI and PCI-E 1x slot if you aren't interested in using the single on-board SATA 2 connector:

    "FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

    Which setup are possible with the board?

    It's possible to use the Sam460ex in one of these setup:

    PCI-Express 16x slot + PCI slot + PCI-Express 1x slot
    PCI-Express 16x slot + PCI slot + SATA2 port
    "

    So why not use a proper PCI-E card for SATA instead of a PCI card? That way you would free up the conventional PCI slot for a 9250 GFX card! :-)

    Also, reading up on the Sam again, made me realize how badly cripled this HW really is. Not only is it weak performance-wise, its design is astonishingly cripled. And it's very expensive, and there aren't any available anymore from the manufacturer. Makes me wonder why a MorphOS port was even considered.


    Quote:

    vox wrote:

    Radeon 9250 is difficult to find, even I would like to stick it next to my Radeon 6870HD on X1000 just to see some 3D.


    Well, Acube sells (sold, they have no Sam's in stock, and I guess it remains to bee seen if they will make some new ones at some point?) new Sam 460 systems with Radeon 9250 PCI! From their webshop:

    Complete system built with:
    AmigaOS4.1 pre-installed
    Sam460ex - Lite
    CPU CLOCK 1 Ghz
    Case LC-Power 2039MB-MBS
    512 MB DDR2
    Radeon 9250 PCI - 128 MB
    HD SATA2 Western Digital 500 GB
    DVD burner
    + Envy24HT sound card

    Maybe you can ask them if they can sell you just the GFX card, if e-bay is too difficult for you to use?

    This is one of the best GFX cards available for OS4 + Sam (since there is no AGP in the Sam, no such cards can be used). It has proper 2D acceleration, 3D acceleration and Overlay support. No Radeon HD solution for OS4 offers that, they don't even have a v1.0 of the 2D acceleration enabled driver yet.


    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    Drivers for Radeon HD cards won't benefit G5 Macs, as you were told already:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=1215&start=94


    Why, I believe high end Macs have PCI-E?


    Why don't you read the answer that people gives to your questions? Mac PPC computers require special PPC ROM's on the GFX cards. The firmware in the Pegasos 2 computer for example, has a x86 emulator that can execute the x86 code that's in "normal" GFX cards ROM's, but no PPC Mac has that, and when Apple dropped PPC and went x86, the market for GFX cards with those special PPC ROM's went away. AFAIK, the Radeon X1900 is the last/best option for PPC Macs.


    Quote:

    Ok, then its SAM460ex thing, and something anyway has to be done
    for transition to x86, or you believe we shall use Radeons 9600/9800 and 1xxx for ever?


    Well, properly supported Radeon 9xxx cards beats Radeon HD cards with only display any day of the week! :-) And you must take into account that the Sam is very under-powered and wouldn't be able to make full use of those Radeon HD cards anyway, so I'd say that a Radeon 9xxx card is a very good match for the Sam. :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »05.03.14 - 11:39
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    As stated in another thread, graphics cards can be initialized without firmware.
    This is not a new development.

    If you doubt me, plug a PC Voodoo3 card into your Mac and boot MorphOS.

    But there are disadvantages.
    First, you would no longer have access to OpenFirmware, the card could not be initialized until the OS booted.
    Further, you would probably have to select/setup the driver before the card was installed requiring an alternate video card for set up.
    Second, a card without OpenFirmware will never work with OSX, so dual booting goes out the window.

    Still, there are two more cards we haven't adopted yet, the X800XT and the X1900GT (AGP and PCI-E respectively) have Apple specific versions.

    And the SAM460 can support virtually any PC PCI-E video card.


    [ Edited by Jim 05.03.2014 - 11:58 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.03.14 - 12:28
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > all I could use is PCIE x4 card [...] and PCIE x1 card

    You can use PCIe x16 graphics cards as the Sam460ex has a PEG slot (with only one fourth of lanes connected, though). Are there even PCIe x4 graphics cards?
  • »05.03.14 - 14:40
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > why not use a proper PCI-E card for SATA instead of a PCI card?

    I guess because OS4 (or is Sam460's firmware the culprit here?) doesn't support a SATA card in the PCIe x1 slot.

    > Makes me wonder why a MorphOS port was even considered.

    Initial development of MorphOS for Sam460 was started in 2011.

    >> Radeon 9250 is difficult to find, even I would like to stick it
    >> next to my Radeon 6870HD on X1000 just to see some 3D.

    > Acube sells [...] new Sam 460 systems with Radeon 9250 PCI! [...]
    > Maybe you can ask them if they can sell you just the GFX card [...]?

    The Sam460ex uses different PCI version with different voltage (3.3 V) than the X1000 (5 V). So caution is due.
  • »05.03.14 - 15:24
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >The Sam460ex uses different PCI version with different voltage (3.3 V) than the X1000 (5 V). So caution is due.

    There is some vital information.

    I can get boat loads of 9250 cards, but I would have some difficulty divining that specification.

    >...Are there even PCIe x4 graphics cards?

    Not that I know of.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.03.14 - 15:29
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > a card without OpenFirmware

    I guess you mean "PPC ROM" here :-)

    > the SAM460 can support virtually any PC PCI-E video card.

    According to ACube, there seem to be some restrictions, for whatever reason:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9750&forum=3&start=10
  • »05.03.14 - 15:46
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >I guess you mean "PPC ROM" here :-)

    Not really, the card has extensions/hooks for OpenFirmware.
    Is it a "PPC specific ROM"?
    Yes, but just like a PC's video card has extensions to its bios, so does a PPC Mac.

    "when using a PCI-Express graphic card, we sugges
    t to use a Radeon HD2400 or newer
    models. Older models like X600, X800 are not fully
    compatible with the Sam460ex and may
    not work. Some X1550 cards are reported to work OK"

    weird. no explanation.

    [ Edited by Jim 05.03.2014 - 15:24 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.03.14 - 16:23
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2237 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    The Sam460ex uses different PCI version with different voltage (3.3 V) than the X1000 (5 V). So caution is due.


    [wolfmode]

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sneak-preview,764-12.html
    [/wolfmode]

    PCI-cards that fit into both types of slots can handle both 3.3 and 5V.

    Quick look on German ebay brought up:
    1x Universal PC
    2x 5V PC
    1x Universal PowerMac
  • »05.03.14 - 17:49
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Taken to school yet again.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.03.14 - 18:08
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>> Radeon 9250 is difficult to find, even I would like to stick it
    >>>> next to my Radeon 6870HD on X1000 just to see some 3D.

    >>> Acube sells [...] new Sam 460 systems with Radeon 9250 PCI! [...]
    >>> Maybe you can ask them if they can sell you just the GFX card [...]?

    >> The Sam460ex uses different PCI version with different voltage (3.3 V)
    >> than the X1000 (5 V). So caution is due.

    > PCI-cards that fit into both types of slots can handle both 3.3 and 5V.

    Yes, universal cards exist of course. Question is whether ACube's Radeon 9250 is a universal one so that it can be used with Nemo as well. I don't know. But I see that Alinea sells a universal 9250:

    http://www.amiga-shop.net/product_info.php?products_id=648

    And they also sell a 5 V 9000:

    http://www.amiga-shop.net/product_info.php?products_id=647
  • »05.03.14 - 20:13
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Taken to school yet again.

    We already talked about PCI keying there (with focus on 64-bit PCI back then, but 32-bit PCI is the same in principle):

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8334&forum=11&start=7
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8334&forum=11&start=15
  • »05.03.14 - 20:19
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12075 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I guess it remains to bee seen if they will make some new ones at some point?

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=8931&start=143
  • »16.03.14 - 15:44
    Profile