Why doesnt MorphOS support dual cpus
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1167 from 2003/6/17
    I realize MorphOS runs great on single CPU g4's but is it a lot of work to support dual CPUs?
  • »14.05.13 - 18:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11007 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > is it a lot of work to support dual CPUs?

    You may want to read this (as well as the threads linked from there):

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=32&topic_id=8882&start=50
  • »14.05.13 - 19:03
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1167 from 2003/6/17
    thanks for the reply! I'll go do some reading.
  • »14.05.13 - 23:07
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4912 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    I really think the developers simply don't want to tackle this until they change ISAs.
    And then it may require dropping legacy compatibility.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.05.13 - 23:14
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11007 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I really think the developers simply don't want to tackle this until they change ISAs.
    > And then it may require dropping legacy compatibility.

    It *will*. That's exactly the reason they want to do both in a single step.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9165&forum=3&start=7

    That's only true for SMP though. ASMP would be another (and simpler) matter.
  • »14.05.13 - 23:41
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4912 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >That's only true for SMP though. ASMP would be another (and simpler) matter.

    Absolutely true, I was waiting for you to shred me over that distinction.
    I wonder if we will ever see ASMP support?

    One thing is for certain, when the ISA change is made, I am keeping a running PPC system with the final revision installed on it.
    It has been a good run.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.05.13 - 23:55
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    No chance that development will continue on both the new system as well as PPC?
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  • »15.05.13 - 00:05
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4912 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Never say never, but with limited resources...
    There are 2x2core G5s, but SMP would be cheaper with X86.
    And the majority of our PPC base consists of single processor systems.

    I would miss the compatibility, but a MorphOS system running, say, eight threads?
    Sign me up.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.05.13 - 00:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11007 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > No chance that development will continue on both the new system as well as PPC?

    Slim chance I'd say. Maintaining compatible MorphOS with old API on PPC would eat too many resources. And maintaining incompatible MorphOS with new API on PPC wouldn't make real sense because x86(-64) is new and cheap.
  • »15.05.13 - 00:50
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4912 from 2009/1/28
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    Look at it this way, that move will take us to something more capable then our "hobbyist" OS.
    I have always wanted a streamlined, micro kernel OS on an X86 (or even an ARM).
    It would be great to prove Linus Torvalds wrong (as he has posted his negative impression of this type of OS).
    I have always said that with more financial resources these guys could be playing in the big league.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.05.13 - 01:08
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    dekanyz
    Posts: 94 from 2013/2/6
    From: Hungary
    Could somebody show me a MorphOS app, which doesn't runs well on a 1.5 GHz processor and really needs the dual core supported?

    Again, spinning on a less important thing... (instead of doing something usefull) ;-)
  • »15.05.13 - 08:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11007 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Could somebody show me a MorphOS app, which doesn't runs well on
    > a 1.5 GHz processor and really needs the dual core supported?

    You could try playing a 1080p video with MPlayer.
  • »15.05.13 - 09:55
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  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @Andreas_Wolf

    Well, a h264/vc1 one then, because with many other codecs, it's still able to cope with 1080p. :)
  • »15.05.13 - 10:23
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    dekanyz
    Posts: 94 from 2013/2/6
    From: Hungary
    Yeah... mplayer.

    But still!
    I think, the lack of (A)SMP is not the biggest problem on MOS!
  • »15.05.13 - 10:24
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 940 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    I think, the lack of (A)SMP is not the biggest problem on MOS!


    I guess this depends on the people you ask. I think there are more important issues like a proper word processor and other applications.

    Speed is not an issue for me. I still use the good old Pegasos G4 with 1Ghz, even if I could use several much faster MorphOS systems sleeping around in storage here.

    SMP, memory protection, 64Bit support, virtual memory will come with a price. Loosing the compatibly to all thirdparty PPC and all 68K applications, which aren´t in development anymore. It also will split the user/market once again. So a step like this should be made wise and preferable only once. And that is the point, where MorphOS swaps hardware. Such opportunity must also be used to drop insane and old crap the OS is filled with to keep it compatible with old Amiga and the old AmigaAPI simply is stupid in many ways.

    In the result we would get a totally incompatible MorphOS system that is as fast as possible, shiny and clean for the future, but has no applications beside the ones provided by MorphOS developers itself.

    To get there it would/will take years of development and testing. That is nothing one will do within a few months. Also keep in mind that parallel to cleanup and feature extension a complete new platform needs to be supported, which mostly alone takes a year at minimum as you all know from experience.

    After all that work, you would have support for one board (probably some by then old x86 Mac) and nothing more and people will start screaming for more hardware to support, which somehow sounds familar.

    Geit


    [ Edited by geit 15.05.2013 - 12:53 ]
  • »15.05.13 - 10:46
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    dekanyz
    Posts: 94 from 2013/2/6
    From: Hungary
    Quote:

    I guess this depends on the people you ask. I think there are more important issues like a proper word processor and other applications.

    Agree...
  • »15.05.13 - 12:01
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Putting aside hardware and application software issues, what's the motivation to create a new operating system? What is it going to do that isn't being done or being done well enough by Windows, OS X, Linux/BSD, Haiku or other?
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »15.05.13 - 12:03
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 940 from 2004/9/23
    For me that is quite easy. I don´t like to adapt my workflow into a static frame dictated by software.

    E.g. on windows everyone knows you cannot move the main window once a file requester is opened. Or a video rendering application opens a small progress bar, which states 2 hours done, 4 to go, but you cannot use the system, because the fullhd sized main window is blocking the entire screen and pops in frequently.

    With MorphOS I have the opportunity to deal with that quite easy. First of all. Such things like mentioned above are easy to avoid or don´t even happen, unless someone spend a lot of time to create annoying features.

    Also the system is quite open, so I can configure most stuff as I like and want it. If some application is not working like expected, or things can be simplified, I can contact the developer in person and make suggestions. Try contacting m$ to add some option to IE. :D

    On other systems like Windows and OSX I often feel limited. On MorphOS I don´t feel that way unless I need software which does not exist, but in that case I launch rdesktop and get the best of both worlds.

    Geit
  • »15.05.13 - 13:21
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    OSes and applications that think they know better than the user boil my piss are a bad trend but do OSes like DragonFlyBSD and Haiku have that problem? Those two are of particular interest to me due to the influence they've had from people with Amiga backgrounds.

    How has AROS dealt with the single cpu and address space issues?
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »16.05.13 - 02:13
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    dekanyz
    Posts: 94 from 2013/2/6
    From: Hungary
    AROS has the same limitations until today.

    I was alsa excited, when discovered Haiku, but... it was two years ago and almost nothing changed since that time. They do their work really slowly due to the fact, that they receive some ca$h, and Google also support them. Last time, when I tried it, it was very very slow on my laptop and after restarting the installed Linux was also very very slow. Just a battery removal helped. :-o
  • »16.05.13 - 08:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11007 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> How has AROS dealt with the single cpu and address space issues?

    > AROS has the same limitations until today.

    Does 32-bit AROS support 2 GiB RAM (like MorphOS and OS4) or 4 GiB?
  • »16.05.13 - 15:26
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 536 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    It supports 4 GiB.
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »16.05.13 - 17:21
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  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    Yes, because it doesn't have to be compatible.
  • »16.05.13 - 17:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11007 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Does 32-bit AROS support 2 GiB RAM (like MorphOS and OS4) or 4 GiB?

    > It supports 4 GiB.

    Thanks. So that's one limitation less.
  • »16.05.13 - 17:45
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    What are the downsides of ASMP?
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    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »18.05.13 - 16:38
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