New PPC Amiga accelerators announced.
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2601 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Piru,
    Quote:

    There are several reasons why it can not:
    1) Both WarpOS and PowerUP are proprietary. Much of WOS is in powerpc assembly, making it harder to work with it even if they could obtain the source code
    2) The FPU issue isn't specific to the OS or kernel being run. The CPU just doesn't implement the Power ISA category FPU. You cannot execute any regular PowerPC FPU code on it.


    So my uninformed assumption that this board is useless appears to be true.

    Either the two guys working on it are unaware of how futile their work on this project is, or this whole thing is just a joke they are playing for some strange reason.

    Given the fact that at least one of the two has completed successful projects in the past, the lack of knowledge that it can't work is puzzling and the assumption that it might be just a joke does not make any sense either.

    Oh well? Someone will figure it out eventually and I will read what is really happening somewhere.

    Unless someone designs a new Cyberstorm accelerator with a 1.5GHz G4, or faster CPU, plus 1.5gb RAM, USB2.0 and a SATA controller built-in, I don't see the point in creating any thing less than that for the A3000/A4000 Classic Amiga models.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »30.05.12 - 04:37
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  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1514 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    I have a feeling being HW developers they didnt consider SW side carefully... PPC could run UAE under Linux or perhaps AROS so you could run 68k software emulated on this card but then there is question why have that 68040 there at all.
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »30.05.12 - 07:27
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    KimmoK
    Posts: 102 from 2003/5/19
    Perhaps APM82181 would be the best option for UlitimatePPCaccelerator kind of HW and for some PPC-efika killer ultra-low-end below 200 eur HW. (perhaps there also exist some suitable mobile GPU for miniPCIe connector, inside bigbox classic, or ePCIe should be used on classic accelerator kind of HW) http://www.hwtools.net/jpg/PE4H-PM3N-ver2.4.jpg http://i.imgur.com/zFKr3.png (3d bench, red is for separate PCIe card and blue is laptop internal, more info http://i.imgur.com/4B7hU.png )

    And APM86190/290 start to look like the best chip for low...mid range HW around 200...300eur.

    Too bad that for now there is no good options for single board computer designs (Rasberry like). Unless APM86x90 is built with some mobile Radeon onboard.Finnish page for the rest.

    [ Edited by KimmoK 30.05.2012 - 09:07 ]
    :-x :-P 8-)
  • »30.05.12 - 07:48
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1898 from 2003/6/4
    KimmoK,

    For Rasberry pi alike designs there's still the 5125. It's not classes beyond and cheap enough. But there are actually two major show stoppers: no hw video decoding unit and no cache coherence (and this is at least a fail for MorphOS). But apart from that a mini board for really little money would be pretty possible. About a year ago I was really considering starting such a project, I spend quite some hours reading a lot and calculating this and that, but eventually I decided against that project for several reasons.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »30.05.12 - 10:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10539 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Perhaps APM82181 would be the best option [...] for some PPC-efika
    > killer ultra-low-end below 200 eur HW. (perhaps there also exist
    > some suitable mobile GPU for miniPCIe connector [...])

    As you'd need audio as well you'd have to attach some combined (2D) graphics/audio solution to the PCIe x1 interface, similar to the SM502 on the Sam460ex ...or use the APM82181's SPI interface with a CPLD acting as SPI-to-I²S bridge and connect an audio chip via this I²S ;-)
  • »30.05.12 - 10:55
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    KimmoK
    Posts: 102 from 2003/5/19
    About audio: yes, solving the audio problem without loosing PCIe of the 3D expansion is one issue. Nice idea about that SPI. Perhaps audio via USB could be another or Audio via localbus connected xcore.

    "spend quite some hours reading a lot and calculating this and that"

    I think I'm going through same hobby engineering/research fun ...

    For me, I would like the HW to be a little faster than my curent SAM440@667Mhz.
    (goals 1:learn HW 2:do some designing 3:try to make/get a prototype & OS running on it 4:see if I could manage to find means for actual production run 5:provide affordable opensource PPC HW 6:keep it PPC AmigalikeOS compatible, just in case if one day....)
    :-x :-P 8-)
  • »30.05.12 - 12:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 345 from 2004/2/10
    I'm going to be buying one of these, it is perfect for my needs.

    I still enjoy using my 3000 for some functions even though I can do that same on my Peg II. It will be fun to put some new hardware in it.

    For me:
    - 33 MHz 040 is plenty fast for what I use the classic hardware for.
    - 3000's are very picky about accelerators and this looks like it will fit and give modern I/O and fast memory.
    - 3000's with a failed 030 can use this to bring it back to life.

    I would think that these guys who are developing these, understand this target market potential. Great idea for them to come up with and hope they sell tons of them...
  • »30.05.12 - 17:54
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    KimmoK
    Posts: 102 from 2003/5/19
    Even if the PPC chip is incompatible with others, PPC part could be usable on opensource SW use...
    If they manage build a dongle to replace A3k/4k motherboard, they might have some extra market from PPC Linux / PPC AROS fans.

    (the dongle could come with NATAMI/miminmig FPGA....)
    :-x :-P 8-)
  • »31.05.12 - 07:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10539 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If they manage build a dongle to replace A3k/4k motherboard, they
    > might have some extra market from PPC Linux / PPC AROS fans.

    But then, PPC Linux or PPC AROS users won't need the m68k part of the board which only makes the board unnecessarily expensive for them. If PPC Linux or PPC AROS users for whatever reason really want to run their OS on QorIQ P1013/P1022 (or any other e500v2-cored chip) there are already numerous solutions out there.
  • »31.05.12 - 08:52
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4856 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    matt3,
    Quote:

    I'm going to be buying one of these, it is perfect for my needs.


    I'm glad you're such an optimist.
    Personally, i think this is an elaborate hoax.

    BTW - What do you intend to do with the PPC (since its incompatible with existing software)?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »01.06.12 - 14:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10539 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> This thing is completely useless if all it can run is WarpOS software or
    >> PowerUP software. Can it even run those?

    > There are several reasons why it can not:
    > 1) Both WarpOS and PowerUP are proprietary. Much of WOS is in powerpc assembly,
    > making it harder to work with it even if they could obtain the source code
    > 2) The FPU issue isn't specific to the OS or kernel being run. The CPU just doesn't
    > implement the Power ISA category FPU. You cannot execute any regular
    > PowerPC FPU code on it.

    From the current status update:

    "Both delevopers [...] brought along Samo Jordan, original developer of the WarpOS/WarpUP! software. Current status is:
    [...]
    - Active talks with Hyperion for supporting AmigaOS4.x.
    [...]
    - Support for WarpUp/WarpOS through support pledged by the original author
    "
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=696776
    http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=528160
  • »18.06.12 - 21:29
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10539 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > Emulating standard Book-E/PowerISA FPU on e500v2 might be hard (or impossible
    > even?) as this is not simply about missing instructions here but about instruction
    > overlappings, i.e. same instructions doing different things on different cores. This
    > seems similar to m68k vs. ColdFire. For an exhaustive and detailed comparison of
    > the programming models of e500v2 vs. e600, refer to:
    > http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/app_note/AN3531.pdf
    > Btw, even the (ex-)maintainer of Debian for PowerPCSPE calls it a "braindead FPU
    > design":
    > http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2012/05/msg00025.html

    To the point:

    http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/219881.shtml
    http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/220016.shtml
  • »21.06.12 - 22:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10539 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/219881.shtml
    > http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/220016.shtml

    "As we have the prototype boards in our hands we have been actively working on booting a basic kernel on the PowerPC core and interfacing the board to the Amiga bus. Parallel we are starting the software development side of things, with WarpOS support being worked on - as well as first contact with Hyperion regarding AmigaOS4 support. We also keep an eye on feedback from the community and are evaluating the choice made for the P1013 CPU.We knew that the FPU in this processor is incompatible with the ones found on older PowerPC boards. Our original plan to fix these incompatibilities in software turns out to have more impact that we had foreseen. For this reason, we will reconsider the choice of PowerPC CPU, while continuing the development work of other important stuff on the current prototype."
    http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=828684
    http://www.ultimateppc.nl

    Ermm, what sense makes WarpOS being ported to the e500v2 core when they will attempt to redesign the board for a CPU with a different core anyway?
  • »13.07.12 - 22:25
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    "WarpOS support being worked on" doesn't necessarily mean the porting phase.

    Review of the original code, project plan, negotiating money (preliminary work which would be common to any such update/port regardless of the specific target) could fall under such a vague description.

    World peace is being worked on... ;)
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

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  • »13.07.12 - 22:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10539 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > "WarpOS support being worked on" doesn't necessarily mean the porting
    > phase. Review of the original code, project plan, negotiating money
    > (preliminary work which would be common to any such update/port
    > regardless of the specific target) could fall under such a vague
    > description.

    Okay, this might be the case here.
    I'm really eager to know which CPU they seek to "replace" the QorIQ P1013 with. As far as I'm aware, the main reasons for going with the P1013 was that it provides USB, SATA, Ethernet and a DIU.
    Finding a suitable non-e500v2 Freescale PPC SoC with a DIU will be a problem I'm afraid. The MPC8610 has a DIU but lacks USB, SATA and Ethernet, and the MPC5121e/MPC5123 has all of that but is rather slow compared to the P1013. And while Applied Micro's APM86190 has USB, SATA, Ethernet and an on-chip LCD controller, I don't know the bandwidth (i.e. what resolution at which colour depth and which refresh rate) of the latter.

    https://myapmold.apm.com/MyAMCC/jsp/public/productDetail/product_detail.jsp?productID=APM86190
    https://myapmold.apm.com/MyAMCC/retrieveDocument/SNP/APM86190_PB_20120216.pdf
  • »14.07.12 - 10:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10539 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > I'm really eager to know which CPU they seek to "replace" the QorIQ P1013
    > with. As far as I'm aware, the main reasons for going with the P1013 was that
    > it provides USB, SATA, Ethernet and a DIU. Finding a suitable non-e500v2
    > Freescale PPC SoC with a DIU will be a problem I'm afraid.

    Freshly announced e5500-based QorIQ T1020, T1022, T1040 and previously announced T1042 all show a DIU in their block diagrams:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7001&forum=3&start=746

    Apart from that, those SoCs each comes at up to 1.4 GHz clock rate and with 2x SATA2, 2x USB2 and Ethernet ad nauseam.
    Sample availability is supposed to start with the T1042 in first half of 2013, which might not be soon enough for the UltimatePPC.
  • »10.10.12 - 23:30
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10539 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > QorIQ T1020, T1022, T1040 and previously announced T1042 all show a DIU in their
    > block diagrams:
    > https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7001&forum=3&start=746

    Confirmation and more details:

    http://www.freescale.com/files/training/doc/dwf/DWF13_AMF_NET_T0232.pdf (page 8)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/training/doc/dwf/DWF13_AMF_NET_T1026_Ottawa.pdf (page 9)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/training/doc/dwf/DWF13_AMF_NET_T1034_Ottawa.pdf (page 10)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/training/doc/dwf/DWF13_QorIQ_Portfolio_SanJose.pdf (page 12)

    "DIU supports video at up to 1280x1024x32bpp"
    "LCD and HDMI interface (DIU) with 12 bit dual data rate"
    http://lists.denx.de/pipermail/u-boot/2013-September/162473.html
    https://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2013-September/111231.html


    Edit: added more PDF links

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 27.11.2013 - 23:37 ]
  • »14.09.13 - 17:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10539 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Official announcement of discontinuation from a week ago, only some years late:

    "About 7 years ago Gideon and I reconnected and kicked off this great adventure to build cool new hardware for the Amiga. We vowed to be better than all the other vaporware in the amiga history and create something cool. Unfortunately I failed. At the time of creating the prototype (which stirred a lot of comments on nearly everything) I got a new job that consumed all of my available time and some things happened in my personal life that upset nearly everything. Gideon plowed along on the design and PCBs but I was not able to support him on that, and the software part (my part) stalled, and then stopped. [...] I'm officially declaring the UltimatePPC the best project ever that did not make it past the prototype phase. I'll see what I can and will do with the boards we have, maybe they will go to Folkert for the future Amiga museum. As for all the other work, it might end up in another project someday."
    http://www.ultimateppc.nl
  • »11.09.19 - 11:16
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