@hooligan,
Quote:

...and of those who still actively use these kind of machines, I think it's reasonable to assume that many *already have* 68k accelerators faster than this one (i.e. 68060 or 68040 > 33MHz), those who needs USB already got it, same with network and HDD/CD. Had it come with a 68060 @ 100MHz it would offer a reason to bother, but as it is now, I think it could be a downgrade for most people. And when the PPC used in this can't run existing Amiga/MorphOS PPC code, it kind of tips it over the edge to redundancy.

I agree with Zylesea, a 8610 would have been a much better start:
* Up to 1333 MHz performance and 3060 MIPS
* DDR/DDR2 SDRAM memory cotroller @ 533 MHz (1066DDR)
* Altivec (possibly the fastest implementation on any "G4" from what I heard)
* Integrated 2D display controller supports up to SXGA 1280 x 1024 resolution and 24 bits per pixel (See it play 1080p streaming video, discussion about it here)
* It has PCI-e, PCI2.2, and many other I/O interfaces that probably could be glued to the Amiga CPU slot

* SATA, USB, high speed network, audio, modern GFX cards, would be easy
to obtain, either through PCI/PCI-e expansion slots, on board controllers, a mixture of them both, or through the use of a southbridge. Think of these HW specs, but in a shape and form that suits A3000/A4000 layouts.

* Skip the 68k CPU entirely, it only adds cost and complexity. Instead, handle it all on the PPC side. Make a 68k->PPC JIT translator, like Trance in MorphOS; its 68k performance is incredible. Store it in some ROM on the board, and let this "CPU" run the 68k show from moment of powering the system up. All this with the PPC chip completely transparent from the 68k side. Classic environments has no need, nor any want, for PPC OS's anyway (and Vice Versa of course).

Then we are talking *serios* accelerator boards, worthy of the name "UltimatePPC"! Of course, making a 68k JIT like Trance takes its programmer, as well as a couple of years perhaps.

And of course, none of this will happen, just thinking out loud...

[ Edited by takemehomegrandma 25.05.2012 - 09:19 ]

> a 8610 would have been a much better start:
>* Up to 1333 MHz performance

1333 MHz MPC8610 parts are no longer manufactured. It goes up to 1067 MHz now.

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC8610&tab=Buy_Parametric_Tab

> * Altivec (possibly the fastest implementation on any "G4" from what I heard)

It's the very same implementation as in MPC7448 and MPC8640(D)/MPC8641(D) from what the Freescale docs say.

> * [...] audio [...] would be easy to obtain

Obviously, as it's already integrated in the MPC8610 (I²S/AC'97).

This thread is just conjecture. There are reasons why nobody has brought a CLassic Amiga PPC board to market since Cyberstorm/blizzard series...

its all fantasy talk

Do you have any idea how much fantasytalk came to reality in the past 100 years ? Look around in your own house.

Look around in my house? Well my gf is at work so most fantasy land stuff is there!

I'm glad you think this project will happen. At least the main dev is accomplished.

But I hope you werent one of those guys that wanted an Amijoe, Boxer, Pios, or nAtami ;)

The Natami is not dead yet, and reports of it's death are greatly exaggerated.

I think that it has rather come back to reality, instead of the wishful thinking of several over zealous supporters, that did not have a grasp of the amount of work required to complete the project. Yet another revision, or alteration to the Natami main board is just one more cause for further delay, but is not unexpected from a project that encompasses such a large amount of goals and work to reach those goals.

Maybe those goals will never be completely realized, but work on them continues by Thomas and others, separately now, but I believe that Thomas for the most part has always worked on this project alone, or with minimal contact with the other people involved with Natami.

I never expect anything, but I do always hope for the best.

Can it be connected in a towered 1200?

xyphoid,
Quote:

Not to be a pessimist, xyphoid, but I doubt it really exists.

xyphoid,
Quote:

No. It connects using the A4000/A3000 CPU board connector. A1200 lack this..

The cpu is incompatible.
It cannot run MorphOS or AmigaOS4 PPC software.

Tom01,
Quote:

That is what I thought. This thing is completely useless if all it can run is WarpOS software or PowerUP software. Can it even run those?

Maybe it is just an exercise to see if the two guys working on it can make it even run anything, then maybe they can change the PPC CPU to used 1.42GHz, or 1.5GHz G4's, or 2.5GHz to 2.7GHz G5 CPU's. That would make it a little bit interesting if they could do that. Can you imagine someone making something similar to the Phase5 Cyberstorm boards, but with a 2.0GHz or faster G5 in place of the 604e? That I would look at and consider, but it would also have to use a 68060 @60MHz or faster in combination with the G5.

Wouldn't that be something that could raise some eyebrows and make people sit up and take notice? Of course it will never happen, but if it ever did, and if any software were ever written to run on such a monster, I would have my A4000 sitting right next to my most used computers in a place of honor.

[ Edited by amigadave 27.05.2012 - 14:47 ]

amigadave,
Quote:

I'd have my doubt about those two packages as well.
Honestly, does anyone think two hobbyists can out do Phase5?

@jim

Didn't the two steve's out do several companys?
Don't we use the two steve's products in a not intended?

I (as a classic amiga user) would buy this card just for the extras.
The ppc would be a plus.

Not really. One Steve strip mined ideas from Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center.
And I don't even know if Woz was involved with the company when the G4 Macs were produced.

That said, it still took an Army of engineers to produce everything Apple has designed since the early Apple IIs.

So what's your point?

My point is that:
two hobbyists can and do out do companies.

and that the proposed hardware has some really good points with buyers at the ready.

Maybe I'm to hopeful...but I have two phase5 cards that died yrs ago

still waiting

M

In the early '90s when my company was still fielding 68K based computers I might have agreed with you.
These days, the only individual I can think of who can pull off this kind of thing is Jens Schönfeld.

Great exsample!

M

Jim,
Quote:

Funny how one of the guys involved with the UltimatePPC managed to produce and sell a 1541-emulator for the C64, when Jens wouldn't... ;)

@stephen_robinson:

Quote:

...except when equipped with one of these babies.

The project is announced at too early stage to take it as a commercially viable one (even at hobby level). Well, it is for sure entertaining and educating for its developers. To say more, I guess they have a sincere intention to finish it. But, in my opinion, it will turn into a neverending story similar to NatAmi.

[ Edited by Krashan 28.05.2012 - 06:25 ]

> maybe they can change the PPC CPU to [...] G4's, or [...] G5 CPU's.

That would require a complete redesign of the board, which is further complicated by the fact that both (non-SoC) G4 and G5 need a northbridge chip to make them work. That aside, the QorIQ chip has been chosen due to its on-chip I/O capabilities (SATA, USB, Ethernet), effectively turning it into some kind of southbridge chip to the m68k chip. Neither G4 nor G5 can provide that.

Great point Andreas,
Many of Freescale's products built after the G4 offer this functionality.
Still not sure why they pick the SoC they intend to use when there are better products.

And I can't see how they'd make this work with the old libraries (like Warp3d).

> Still not sure why they pick the SoC they intend to use when there are better products.

Maybe those "better products" are more expensive, that may be a valid concern. My guess is that the UltimatePPC developers have just not been aware of the FPU compatibility issue between e500v2 and "standard" Power Architecture. Reading MorphZone would have helped them here as we have been discussing the issue since January 2009 ;-) One of the board's developers even confirmed that e500v2 had an FPU (which isn't a false statement per se, but "an FPU" may simply not be enough when it can't execute "standard" FP code):

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=519941

> I can't see how they'd make this work with the old libraries (like Warp3d).

Warp3D wouldn't make sense anyway as the P1013's DIU has no 3D capabilities.


Edit: Btw, Troika once had plans for a standalone PPC board for the Amiga market based on e500v2 (PowerQUICC III, MPC85xx):

"In parallel with my work on Athena, I have been looking at cost effective higher performance system, codenamed Hercules. [...] The Hercules design is centred around an E500 core PowerPC running at a minimum of 1 GHz. [...] At this time the Hercules platform is in early development, i.e. schematics are in progress."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28102&forum=33&start=240#477216

And 2.5 years later:

"The Hercules design was little more than an early concept."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=23127&forum=2&start=120#621485

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 30.05.2012 - 09:09 ]

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

P10xx and PPC460ex are affordable PPC chips, others are not.

But if 2x CPU price is not an issue then chips like MPC8610 and P2041 become alternative.

IIRC, some P10xx and P20xx are pin compatible. P2041 has e500mc core (compatible FPU), but not sure how easily it fits in place of 1013.

Any specs around of T1xxx chips yet? Do they have DIU?