Hi all,

I've now managed to acquire a Powermac G4 MDD but unfortunately there are some issues with it, not least that it isn't the spec it was supposed to be, but foremost being that it doesn't seem to be doing what I'd expect it to on power up, i.e. giving some sort of output from the OF part of the process. However this hardware platform is all new to me so I may be overlooking something (hopefully).

So it seems to be the earlier type MDD: 867MHz processors, 2 Firewire ports, a GForce graphics card (yes I know that won't work with MorphOS, it supposedly had an ATI Radeon); it's got 2 sticks of DDR, and currently no hard drive or optical drive. When I power it on, there are no beeps (good) or chimes (bad?), the smaller fan starts straight away and then about 10 seconds later a jet turbine spins up (maybe I've been using a power-efficient, low-noise Windows PC for too long). But that's all that happens, I get no display of any kind from the DVI port, either connected into the HDMI port of my monitor via a DVI-HDMI cable or into the DSUB port of my monitor via a DVI-DSUB adapter and DSUB cable. All I can do is hold in the power button until the racket stops.

Here's what I've tried so far.
[list]Holding various keys (alt, alt-s, c) whilst powering on.
Removing the PRAM battery.
Connecting an IDE hard drive set to cable select (although I'm now suspecting it might be dead but it's the only ATA drive I've got).
Pushing the GFX card and USB card down to make sure they're in properly.
Pushing the DIMMs to make sure they're also in properly.
Removing the heatsink and making sure the CPU card is definitely pushed down all the way (although I've not actually removed it).
Removing one of the DIMMs (the one that was rattling behind the front HD cradle when I opened it up ).
Removing both DIMMs (thereby leaving no RAM installed).
[/list]
None of these actions has made any difference, I still get no beeps, no chimes and no display. I've spent a fair bit of time Googling and trying things and am rapidly losing hope of this machine working. But at the same time, I'm not familiar with the platform so whilst I'm expecting to get to any sort of OF prompt or output of some sort, is there something I'm missing? (Fingers crossed!)

Thanks in advance.

I should have also mentioned that I'm using a cordless keyboard because I don't have any wired USB keyboards, but my understanding is that the plug-in USB transceiver does all the clever stuff and the computer doesn't see anything different to any old USB keyboard - but am I wrong, and could that make any difference?

Tried reseting the Pram thingy? There's a button on the motherboard somewhere. I think taking the battery out is as good, but maybe it's worth a try..

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=95037

I think that refers to an earlier model than the MDD (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) - maybe Graphite? Anyway I can't see the little button anywhere on there.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1939?viewlocale=en_US

expand the blue "For Power Mac G4" bit.

Thanks for the help Stephen. I had come across that article in my Googling and couldn't find a button as in any of the pictures so assumed that the MDDs mustn't have one of these reset buttons. However looking over the motherboard again just now, I've found it next to the ATA-66 cable socket, which is different to the pictures but it is labelled 'PMU RESET' so must be the same thing.

Anyway I've followed the procedure but unfortunately it's made no difference. I did notice though that the button is marked (or perhaps a little worn, difficult to tell which) which makes me wonder if someone's tried a bit of this already.

Have you replace the battery yet?

Not replaced, but I read that it should still boot (well, as far as it can without a drive containing an OS) without the battery in. Is that not right?

Err.. I've had a eMac that would always forget the date, so I assumed the battery was dead and that booted correctly. I don't know about your Powermac though.

Sounds like a broken CPU module. I've had couple of broken CPU modules I've tried in two different MDD motherboards and the CPU fan always revs to the max about ~10 secs after power on.

I'd try reseating the CPU card, I don't think it'll make any difference, but it's not like you've got anything to lose.

And then it's take the memory, then stick it on eBay as 'Untested'

Oh dear, that prognosis doesn't do much for my dwindling hope. I'll try removing the CPU card and setting it back in and see if that does anything.

Right, the CPU card's been out, checked for dirt and damage, and gone back in, I've seen what the connector on the motherboard looks like, but it's not made any difference. It's definitely been out before too because I noticed the heatsink screw furtherest at the back (the one that's tricky to get the screwdriver on properly to screw it back in) is a bit chewed up, showing that someone's had trouble getting it back and has been a bit heavy-handed.

Also noticed there's a distinct lack of thermal compound, although the processors aren't discoloured, and there's evidence that suggests there once was some on there. Are these PowerPC units really supposed to not use any thermal compound?

Yes, they should use thermal compound. They do get damaged with inadequate cooling, as I found out once when my G4 Pegasos II's heat sink slipped out of positon once. :(

It really sounds like you ought to replace the cpu card.
Slower ones like the one you have aren't that expensive.
Personally, with your unit I'd look for an Xserve processor.

That would boost you to 1GHz and it has twice the L3 cache.

Here's a listing for one on Ebay that would work in your computer and its fairly cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-MDD-xServe-PowerMac-Dual-1Ghz-Processor-820-1310-/110869422942?pt=CPUs&hash=item19d055235e

Sorry, just noticed you were in the UK. Here's a better offer. Still from the US, but with a much more reasonable shipping option.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apple-661-2661-Xserve-G4-1GHz-Single-Processor-CPU-Mod-/280719028062?pt=Motherboards&hash=item415c286f5e

[ Edited by Jim 29.04.2012 - 21:34 ]

Thanks everyone for the help. If the general consensus is that the CPU card is faulty (which is my conclusion from everything I've read) then I need to send it back as not working, and not as described to boot. Wish me luck.

Not only is this massively annoying because of the hassle undoubtedly to come, but it's wasted a huge amount of time that I've still not been able to try MorphOS >:(

Jim,
Quote:
Are all these Xserve processor cards compatible with the MDD Powermacs?

Hi Exanian!
As many other people wrote, your problem is probabily the cpu module: I have had a similar experience when I bought an MDD board with double 1.25 cpu module: no boing at startup and after a 10 seconds countdown, all fans at maximum speed! I've always thought it was ready to take off
I bought a single 1.25 cpu module with motherboard and tried to put this cpu module in my old MDD mobo and... surprise! The Powermac MDD is still here working flawless.
So if you are looking for a 867 cpu module (afaik your MDD supports dual 867 mhz and dual 1 ghz as stated here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4), you can check this for example: Double 867 CPU Module

exanian,
Quote:

There are two types.
One type, the single or dual processor 1 GHz cards, runs at a 133 MHz bus speed and is compatible with slower MDDs (like the dual 867).

The other two, the single or dual processor 1.33 GHz cards, runs at a 167 MHz bus speed and works in MDDs that originally had a 1.25 or 1.42 GHz processor card.

All these cards feature a 2MB L3 cache for each processor which is twice as large as the L3 in a standard MDD CPU.

> The other two, the single or dual processor 1.33 GHz cards, runs at a 167 MHz bus
> speed and works in MDDs that originally had a 1.25 or 1.42 GHz processor card.

...as well as in this:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.0_dp_mdd.html

> afaik your MDD supports dual 867 mhz and dual 1 ghz as stated
> here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4)

According to your link, the dual 1.0 GHz card runs with 167 MHz bus. What also has 133 MHz bus is the *single* 1.0 GHz card of the FW800.

I didn't know the dual 1 GHz MDD was also a 167 MHz bus machine.
That certainly makes it more attractive.

I also didn't mention that the 1.33 GHz Xserve processor will also run in a 133 MHz bus machines, albeit at 1 GHz.

> All these cards feature a 2MB L3 cache for each processor which
> is twice as large as the L3 in a standard MDD CPU.

Dual-CPU 1.25 GHz card from non-FW800 MDD and dual-CPU 1.42 GHz card from FW800 MDD have 2 MiB L3 cache per CPU as well.

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP63
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP54

Are those the only 2MB L3 MDD models?