So what is our best CPU?
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    I was looking at Powerbook specs and it occurred to me that the 1.67Ghz 7447a was probably not a better performer then the processors we already have in the better Powermacs.
    The 1.42Ghz 7455 in the top MDDs and my own 1.8 Ghz 7447 ought to be at least equal if not better then the 1.67 7447a.
    And I've heard that the is at least one MorphOS user that has a 2.0 Ghz 7448 processor in his machine.

    So, if our top performance choices have already plateaued, do we have a good way to comparatively benchmark these systems to highlight the advantages of each?

    Edit - Ah, so what eh? I think I may buy a Powerbook anyway.

    [ Edited by Jim 02.04.2011 - 18:43 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.04.11 - 01:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > my own 1.8 Ghz 7447 ought to be at least equal if not better then the 1.67 7447a.

    Yes, of course it's faster. It's the same processor at higher clock speed after all. But that doesn't matter anyway as the purpose of PowerBook support for MorphOS is not so much about having better speed but more about having a mobile solution for MorphOS.

    > do we have a good way to comparatively benchmark these systems to
    > highlight the advantages of each?

    As said, the no. 1 advantage of the PowerBook is that it's a mobile computer. No benchmark needed for this ;-)
  • »03.04.11 - 00:04
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >As said, the no. 1 advantage of the PowerBook is that it's a mobile computer. No benchmark needed for this ;-

    Thanks again for pointing out something that should have been clear to me, Andreas.
    Outside of laptops with AROS installed (which holds no appeal for me) this will be the first transportable system for our market.
    That's one of the reasons I added that last line to the first post. I can see the utility in that and 1.67 still pretty fast.
    I'm looking for one right now (a 17 inch since they seem to have more VRAM).

    I think the developers must have been under the impression that i thought G5 support was immanent. I didn't, I just like to plan ahead. After all, my Powermac was ready about half a year before 2.6 was released (and I didn't expect support for Powermacs to arrive that early, I would have been fine waiting two or three times longer).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.04.11 - 00:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > a 17 inch since they seem to have more VRAM

    One of the two 15" 1.67 GHz PowerBooks has 128 MiB VRAM as well:

    http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/stats/powerbook_g4_1.67_15_hr.html
  • »03.04.11 - 03:26
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Thanks. That is really useful to know. I didn't pick the 17 inch because I preferred it. Rather, I just wanted the extra video memory.
    Frankly, I've always found really large notebooks cumbersome.
    The 15 inch you've mentioned is well worth looking for.

    Andreas, I'm beginning to get the weird impression that I could ask you for advice about almost any decision I was considering making and you could suggest a slight twist to improve the outcome.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.04.11 - 04:02
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    One question on the two models.

    The later 17 inch Powerbooks (and the 15 inch models for that matter) use DDR2 and appear to have a different chipset.

    Do you think this will present a problem when MorphOS support is introduced?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.04.11 - 17:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Do you think this will present a problem when MorphOS support is introduced?

    Not according to what jacadcaps told numerous times, quite to the contrary.
  • »03.04.11 - 18:57
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    That's reassuring considering I just placed a bid on one. Thanks again for pointing this out as the 15 inch models sell for less and are less popular (in the US).
    BTW - The later 1.5 Ghz models also appear to have 128mb of VRAM.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.04.11 - 19:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
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    > The later 1.5 Ghz models also appear to have 128mb of VRAM.

    No, that would certainly be a misstatement.

    http://support.apple.com/kb/SP48
  • »03.04.11 - 19:24
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >> The later 1.5 Ghz models also appear to have 128mb of VRAM.

    >No, that would certainly be a misstatement.

    http://support.apple.com/kb/SP48

    That page only covers the PC2700 models which list the 1.67 model's.VRAM as 64MB unless you opt for a BTO option..


    Do you have a reference for the DDR2 model?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.04.11 - 21:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Do you have a reference for the DDR2 model?

    Of course:

    http://support.apple.com/kb/SP38

    As you can see, there's even no PowerBook G4 at 1.5 GHz with DDR2 RAM, Radeon GPU and 15+" display, that's why I thought you meant the previous generation, which has at least a model at 1.5 GHz with Radeon GPU (64 MiB VRAM) and 15" display. So I still don't know which 1.5 GHz model with alleged 128 MiB VRAM you mean.
  • »03.04.11 - 21:45
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    Wow, there are a couple of really off base Ebay postings in the US today.
    Good thing I bid on a 1.67Ghz model. I hope the DDR2 listed in the screenshot isn't from another system.

    The dual layer SuperDrive also sounds useful.
    Again, thanks for mentioning this specific model. It looks ideal.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.04.11 - 23:01
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 3210 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    @Andreas

    Actually, the rev-c 1.5GHz model came in a 128MB variant too, although it's very rare (see everymac.com)
  • »04.04.11 - 04:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
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    > the rev-c 1.5GHz model came in a 128MB variant too, although
    > it's very rare (see everymac.com)

    You're right. Thanks for correcting me. Apparantly, for this 1.5 GHz 15" model the 128 MiB VRAM BTO option is not listed on apple.com while for the 1.67 GHz 15" model of the same generation it is.

    For Jim and others who might want to know more:
    http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/stats/powerbook_g4_1.5_15_2.html

    At least I was right that there's no such model in the last PowerBook G4 generation ;-)
  • »04.04.11 - 08:02
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 648 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    i have rev-c with 128mb :)
  • »04.04.11 - 09:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
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    > i have rev-c with 128mb :)

    At 1.5 GHz (as that's what the confusion was about)?
  • »04.04.11 - 10:02
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    Wow! What a round about way of getting confirmation that there are 128MB VRAM 1.5Ghz Powerbooks.
    Can I assume the DDR2 model of the 1.67 still might offer some advantages over the earlier models?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.04.11 - 14:59
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 278 from 2003/3/4
    I have seen a 2 Ghz 7447 Single CPU Powerlogix upgrade card on ebay a couple of months ago. These are rare. I wonder how they compare to the 7448 and the lower Mhz, bigger cache, faster memory 7455 in real world applications.

    [ Edited by cdfr 04.04.2011 - 13:43 ]
  • »04.04.11 - 15:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
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    > Can I assume the DDR2 model of the 1.67 still might offer some advantages
    > over the earlier models?

    Back answer: Why shouldn't it? ;-)
  • »04.04.11 - 16:08
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
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    Memory benchmarks of the 7448 under MorphOS are surprisingly low. This may be due to that processor current support level under the OS.
    At this point the difference between the 7447 and 7448 may not be that much.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.04.11 - 16:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I have seen a 2 Ghz 7447 Single CPU Powerlogix upgrade card on ebay
    > a couple of months ago. [...] I wonder how they compare to the 7448 and
    > the lower Mhz, bigger cache, faster memory 7455 in real world applications.

    For benchmark comparisons between 7455, 7447A and 7448 see posting #37 of this thread:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7638&start=36
    (Unfortunately, the recent MorphZone software update broke direct linking to postings.)

    Besides, the 7447A has double the L2 cache compared to the 7455 (but no L3 cache). And the memory speed is the same for both.
  • »04.04.11 - 16:28
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 278 from 2003/3/4
    Some of these tests are MP aware (so not directly comparable to what we would get on MorphO). Ideally we would have some MorphOS comparisons for stuff like decoding / encoding video /complex web pages / games / emulation. Not easy to come up with a standard bench and also multiple memory / HD / video card combination makes this difficult.
  • »04.04.11 - 17:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12407 from 2003/5/22
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    > Some of these tests are MP aware (so not directly comparable to
    > what we would get on MorphO).

    *My* calculated results which I linked to are comparisons of the CPUs (only single vs. single and dual vs. dual, not mixed). That's why I didn't quote any benchmark points or times of the programs (we don't have those on MorphOS anyway) from the articles but only calculated the *relative* results of the CPUs (again: no mixed CPU count), which ideally shouldn't be much different from the *relative* results under MorphOS. At least that's what I thought you asked for: relative results.

    > Ideally we would have some MorphOS comparisons for stuff like decoding / encoding
    > video /complex web pages / games / emulation. Not easy to come up with a standard
    > bench and also multiple memory / HD / video card combination makes this difficult.

    Just define a set of applications and a set of data for each application (if required), open a thread here on MorphZone with your own results and there you go :-)
  • »04.04.11 - 18:45
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    CountRaven
    Posts: 566 from 2007/12/10
    From: Greece
    Quote:

    Thanks again for pointing out something that should have been clear to me, Andreas.
    Outside of laptops with AROS installed (which holds no appeal for me) this will be the first transportable system for our market.


    This could be real if there will be Wifi support under MorphOS. This is not such an easy task, at least that was what I last heard from the team, ages ago. Hope for this to change. Wifi under MorphOs on PowerBook will be great. I am posting form my 1.67, 17'' PowerBook right now. Still under MacOSX, having high hopes for MorphOS :)
  • »04.04.11 - 23:50
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Obviously Powerbooks without Wifi are not that practical.
    Its odd that I can add a wifi card to my Powermac, but the team was considering support of the Powerbooks without it.
    I prefer my Powermac to be hook to my router via a cat5 cable, but having to do so with a Powerbook would be irritating.

    BTW - Why don't I see a 'Quote' button in Reply anymore?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.04.11 - 00:15
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