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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    serge
    Posts: 725 from 2003/2/20
    very difficult question.

    OS4 running Timberwolf and Abiword under X11 on Pegasos is not very slow so we can think this applications will run at a confortable speed on X1000 regardless to X11 weight and non hardware acceleration.

    So, my point on view is X1000 "will be" better for wordprocessing (Abiword and maybe OpenOffice 4 kids) and maybe for internet, but MorphOS have a big chance to be better on 3D gaming, and video playback.
    We have to remembre the fact Morphos have a very good internet browser and we dont need something like Timberwolf.

    The only thing missing at this time on morphos is an Office suite with a real wordprocessor managing all file formats.

    The sad X11 solution on AmigaOS4 is better than nothing on MorphOS.

    I regret the lost of Papyrus. :-(

    [ Edited by serge on 2010/6/25 9:49 ]
  • »25.06.10 - 06:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 242 from 2003/4/5
    Quake 3 at 4fps on X1000 is with the "fps on screen method" (in the first room of the game).. eMac/Mac mini G4 don't reach 100 fps with this method.
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
    http://obligement.free.fr
  • »25.06.10 - 07:07
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    serge
    Posts: 725 from 2003/2/20
    I think it's stupid to compare the ultra optimised Quake3 MorphOS version and the AmigaOS4 version on X1000 with lot of debug outputs activated and PCIe ATI Radeon R700 graphic drivers under developement.

    The only real X1000 problem is the price around 1800 euros.

    The price will be the X1000 killer and there's not another reason to dont trust on X1000.

    They cant sold the machine at this price. It's totaly unrealistic. There's only few rich persons able to buy it and Amiga community is very smal and closed.
    They think about selling it to proffessional world, but AmigaOS4 dont have anything proffessional. The only proffessionnal software supported on AmigaOS4 is MUIbase and this application runs lot faster on an Intel 300 euros PC.

    Which applications will they sell to proffessionnal world? Deluxpaint IV? old LightWave? Protracker or Octamed?

    Oups, maybe OpenOffice for kids and Firefox. Hemmm they are free on other systems running with memory protection, ressource tracking blabla blabla.

    It's the suicide of the best hardware planned since last 25 years.

    [ Edited by serge on 2010/6/25 12:00 ]
  • »25.06.10 - 08:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Upgrade a Mdd to a 1.8 or 2.0 Ghz 7448

    >> MDD can only be upgraded up to (dual) 1.8 GHz 7447A.

    > I believe I know of a way to get that upgrade to overcloack slightly.

    But I guess you won't exchange the 7447A for a 7448, will you? ;-)
  • »25.06.10 - 10:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Which applications will they sell to proffessionnal world? Deluxpaint IV?
    > old LightWave? Protracker or Octamed?

    Is OS4 able to run this software easily at all?
  • »25.06.10 - 10:41
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    serge wrote:

    I think it's stupid to compare the ultra optimised Quake3 MorphOS version and the AmigaOS4 version on X1000 with lot of debug outputs activated and PCIe ATI Radeon R700 graphic drivers under developement.


    Better say it's unfair advantage... Which immediately takes me back to one of the first Amiga press adverts:

    http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adverts/creatad1.jpg

    Couldn't resist!

    Quote:

    The only real X1000 problem is the price around 1800 euros. It's the suicide of the best hardware planned since last 25 years.


    If you mean that this is the best hardware in the past 25 years... I think much more interesting hardware has been designed since then. As a bothering example, take Microsoft's XBox 360. You don't even have to abandon PowerPC space.

    The new version, jsut on sale now, has a new chip with the CPU, the GPU (!) and the RAM (!!!) all stacked in the same component! Such a moster is selling for peanuts. Indeed you're right about seeking markets first.

    Can I have the MorphOS logo on a Microsoft branded device? Pleeeee...
  • »25.06.10 - 10:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I think much more interesting hardware has been designed since then.
    > As a bothering example, take Microsoft's XBox 360.

    But that hardware is closed. In order to bring AmigaOS/MorphOS to it you'd have to apply a hardware hack and must not have a firmware newer than a certain version/revision. So I don't think the XBox 360 is relevant in terms of potential hardware for AmigaOS or MorphOS.
  • »25.06.10 - 11:19
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    serge
    Posts: 725 from 2003/2/20
    Quote:


    jcmarcos wrote:
    Quote:

    serge wrote:

    I think it's stupid to compare the ultra optimised Quake3 MorphOS version and the AmigaOS4 version on X1000 with lot of debug outputs activated and PCIe ATI Radeon R700 graphic drivers under developement.


    Better say it's unfair advantage... Which immediately takes me back to one of the first Amiga press adverts:

    http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/adverts/creatad1.jpg

    Couldn't resist!

    Quote:

    The only real X1000 problem is the price around 1800 euros. It's the suicide of the best hardware planned since last 25 years.


    If you mean that this is the best hardware in the past 25 years... I think much more interesting hardware has been designed since then. As a bothering example, take Microsoft's XBox 360. You don't even have to abandon PowerPC space.

    The new version, jsut on sale now, has a new chip with the CPU, the GPU (!) and the RAM (!!!) all stacked in the same component! Such a moster is selling for peanuts. Indeed you're right about seeking markets first.

    Can I have the MorphOS logo on a Microsoft branded device? Pleeeee...


    sorry, but this is not the subject.
    We are discussing about hardware made or supported by AmigaOS and MorphOS and not about all the f.cking machines all other the world.
    If you want an Xbox360 instead of a Powermac or X1000, I would like to have a PS3 ;-)


    Sorry, but X1000 "on the paper specs" is the best hardware for Amiga since the begining. This is the truth and nothing more.
  • »25.06.10 - 11:33
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  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @Serge

    of course it's stupid to compare it, but Velcro asked for a comparison, and that's the only verifiable fact we can actually give right now. He just shouldn't have asked this question, and AEon should never have shown this in the first place, especially when the one of the main AEon associates told several years ago: "You only make a first impression once." :)

    The thing is we don't know how optimized the R700 driver will be (or even if there will be one at release). And Warp3d/MiniGL/driver performance might still make it worse for the X1000, even if it should in theory be much faster.

    [ Edited by Fab on 2010/6/25 16:27 ]
  • »25.06.10 - 14:25
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    sergius
    Posts: 40 from 2005/12/6
    fab: agree with you.
  • »25.06.10 - 15:01
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    clusteruk
    Posts: 47 from 2010/6/24
    All I know is that MorphOS on this eMac 1.25ghz machine is amazing. Just saving up for a license. The X1000 will be very good I know but have not tried OS4 and I cannot afford the price of an X1000 so the answer is there I guess. eMac all the way between the two for me.
  • »25.06.10 - 15:35
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Krashan
    Posts: 1107 from 2003/6/11
    From: Białystok...
    Sorry, but X1000 "on the paper specs" is the best hardware for Amiga since the begining.

    You can write everything on paper. Validity of what is written is another story.
  • »25.06.10 - 16:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > You can write everything on paper. Validity of what is written is another story.

    I think he means the pure hardware specs (and there he is right), not what OS4 will make out of that.
  • »25.06.10 - 18:40
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Krashan
    Posts: 1107 from 2003/6/11
    From: Białystok...
    1. We don't know how big part of this spec will be really installed on the mobo (for example X-MOS chip hasn't been mounted on hardware shown).

    2. If we talk about "best Amiga ever", it is obvious that it is important, what will be supported by OS4. Ignoring operating system support is like saying that "Mac mini is better MorphOS machine than Pegasos, because Pegasos has no WiFi hardware" ;-)


    [ Edited by Krashan on 2010/6/25 20:51 ]
  • »25.06.10 - 18:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > 1. We don't know how big part of this spec will be really installed on the mobo
    > (for example X-MOS chip hasn't been mounted on hardware shown).

    I didn't even take the XCore into the equation. And I bet the CPU, the RAM, the southbridge and the slots will be there. That's sufficient to render the statement true.

    > 2. If we talk about "best Amiga ever", it is obvious that it is important, what will be
    > supported by OS4.

    He said "best hardware for Amiga", not "best Amiga", so he specifically referred to the hardware aspect.
  • »25.06.10 - 19:06
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 236 from 2003/7/28
    From: Canada
    @krashan

    Look at the VCF 2010 photos you will see the xmos chip on the board. There were several boards there from what I could tell, and at least one of them had the chip.

    It's hard to make out, and there are better photos out there, but the X1000 motherboard in the clear plexi-glass case had the XMOS chip.

    http://www.amigaoneproductions.co.uk/vcf1.html
    A4000/060/PPC-200MHz, A4000T/060/PPC-233MHz, CD32, MicroA1, Pegasos 2 G4, AMD Phenom Quad Core 2.5GHz, MacMini 1.5GHz/64MB VRam...mwwmwahhh :)
  • »25.06.10 - 19:14
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Krashan
    Posts: 1107 from 2003/6/11
    From: Białystok...
    The board which was shown running had X-MOS chip soldered?
  • »25.06.10 - 19:21
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 24.04.2011 - 07:08 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »25.06.10 - 23:30
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    No. but if we were talking Quicksilver Powermacs, then the 7448 would be a possibility.

    What I'd like to know is how a 1.5 Ghz Titan cored processor would compare to a 1.8 Ghz PA6T.

    [ Edited by Jim on 2010/6/26 2:59 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.06.10 - 00:58
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    feanor
    Posts: 104 from 2009/3/20
    Quote:


    What I'd like to know is how a 1.5 Ghz Titan cored processor would compare to a 1.8 Ghz PA6T.



    It would lose...
  • »26.06.10 - 09:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > It would lose...

    Absolutely. And that's not even taking the AltiVec of the PA6T into account.
  • »26.06.10 - 10:49
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    sergius
    Posts: 40 from 2005/12/6
    Quote:


    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Upgrade a Mdd to a 1.8 or 2.0 Ghz 7448

    MDD can only be upgraded up to (dual) 1.8 GHz 7447A.


    ok, but an interesting question is :

    Will Sonnet CPU cards be supported by MorphOS ?

    I have never heard a MorphOS member talking about this.

    [ Edited by sergius on 2010/6/26 20:24 ]
  • »26.06.10 - 11:15
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:


    feanor wrote:
    Quote:


    What I'd like to know is how a 1.5 Ghz Titan cored processor would compare to a 1.8 Ghz PA6T.



    It would lose...


    I don't think the difference would be that significant. And the Titan core will be around long after the PA6T is a memory. Future Titanss should do 2.0 Ghz or higher. If a tiny company like A-eon can produce a motherboard, we should be able to gather the resources to build one too.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.06.10 - 18:31
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    feanor
    Posts: 104 from 2009/3/20
    Quote:


    Jim wrote:

    I don't think the difference would be that significant.



    Oh I think the difference would be huge, it's not the frequency difference only, I doubt the titan would be able to reach such memory bandwidth as the PA6T (link).

    Quote:


    If a tiny company like A-eon can produce a motherboard, we should be able to gather the resources to build one too.



    It's not as easy as you think.
  • »26.06.10 - 20:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > an interesting question is : Will Sonnet CPU cards be supported by MorphOS ?

    Indeed. I don't have an answer though.
  • »26.06.10 - 22:47
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