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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I don't think the difference would be that significant.

    As the Titan core is supposedly an upclocked PPC450 core I don't think it would stand a chance performance-wise against a 1.8 GHz PA6T, even when clocked at 2.0 GHz.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6268&start=71

    > we should be able to gather the resources to build one too.

    Depends on who is "we" I guess ;-)

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6196&start=144
  • »26.06.10 - 23:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 327 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    Either one of the OSes running on Quantum Computers.

    :-)

    [ Edited by discreetfx on 2010/6/27 1:03 ]
    DiscreetFX
    Making your
    Digital Films
    More Effective!
  • »27.06.10 - 06:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2706 from 2003/2/24
    The supported eMac is AFAIK running at 1.25GHz, making it (together with the Mac Mini 1.25GHz model) the slowest of MorphOS supported Mac's.

    You want to compare *the slowest existing* MorphOS Mac offer to some hardware that...

    1. is not even here yet but still in a vapor state
    2. is still unknown when it comes to real world performance and quality
    3. at least *should* be the fastest hardware for OS4 if it ever gets released, but...
    4. is unknown on how well OS4 really makes use of the features (i.e. driver support, optimizations, etc)

    That is a rather peculiar request IMHO?

    I think it would be interesting to see a new performance test like the Obligement comparison (the same tests could be conducted), but while the original Obligement test strictly compared the performance of the OS's (since it was conducted on the very same hardware), I think it would be interesting to see a comparison that includes *both* the HW performance of the available options, *and* what the OS's can make out of it. In other words, a real world test of what true performance and experience the end-user could expect by choosing between *available* options.

    For example running the entire Obligement test on:
    OS4.1.2 on Sam and Pegasos2.
    MorphOS 2.5 on eMac 1.25GHz and Mac Mini 1.5GHz.

    Then we would get a useful, real life test of the most popular options available.

    But asking for comparisons of HW that's not even here yet, HW with unknown specs and performance, HW that none of the OS's in question really supports yet, well then we are moving into the twilight zone. And while in the twilight zone, why not compare the "X1000" to the PowerBook 1.67GHz or the fastest PowerMac G4? Or simply ask the question "Which will boot faster, be more stable, have better video playback (i.e. all your questions in the initial post) of the best HW that OS4 will support in the future and the best HW that MorphOS will support in the future?". Who knows, maybe that will even include x86 motherboards? ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »27.06.10 - 09:54
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:22 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »27.06.10 - 12:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2706 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    Velcro_SP wrote:

    The Register article said it was "unveiled" in Bletchley Park and that it "runs AmigaOS 4." That's semi-mainstream computer news so I don't think it's vapor, unless you are attacking The Register.


    An early prototype has been shown (without the most promoted component even present), that managed to boot up some kind of OS4 that actually didn't support much of the board at all IIRC. Taking it from there to a real, delivered end-user product is *the real* challenge, a business challenge, a financial long-haul. Especially for a new, small, upstart company that is asking for pre-payments. This is where many hardware projects fail, if you look at Amiga history. We have seen many HW projects with a maturity level similar to the "X1000" shown, that never reached end-users. You can't buy it now, and in my world it's quite uncertain if you will ever be able to. Heck, they haven't even revealed the specifications yet. So it's Vapor alright, and there is no way anyone can compare booting-time, stability, performance etc between Vapor HW and real, existing HW.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »27.06.10 - 16:47
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quotes from the very nice Trevor Dickinson interview in Polski Portal Amigowy:

    Quote:

    Trevor Dickinson wrote:

    I will be happy if we break even. At the moment the investment already cost 200 000 euro with no money coming in.


    Two questions, right after feeling very s*****d after reading that:

    1.- What could MorphOS and bPlan do with such a pornographic amount of cash? Couldn't we already have a new MPC 8610/8641 computer, that instead of having an absurd price tag, would be actually marketable?

    2.- Why do some people have friends with 200000 euro ready to spend in a quest for the unicorn? Is "the brand" the only thing that makes money flow like that? If so, please allow me to go nuts, plainly.

    Quote:

    I personally don?t like Apple. When I had a chance to choose between Apple and Commodore I chose Commodore. I have Apple, but with MorphOS installed


    WOOT!
  • »28.06.10 - 08:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> "I have Apple, but with MorphOS installed"

    > WOOT!

    "Personally I like and use both OS4.0 and MorphOS."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21048&forum=17&start=40#335296 (10/2006)

    "MorphOS installed on Pegasos II. I will have to wait until I return home to install it on the Efika."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=26393&forum=28&start=60#446482 (07/2008)

    "OWB is slowly becoming my Browser of choice on OS4 & MorphOS."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28076&forum=28#479077 (02/2009)

    "I already have a MacMini with MorphOS installed. I bought it some time ago to run AmigaOS4, when that was a possibility. I haven't got round to paying for a MorphOS license for the Mac Mini. For some reason even though MorphOS runs very well on the Mac Mini IMHO it does not feel like an "Amiga". I much prefer running AmigaOS4 on my A1-XE or MorphOS on my Pegasos II."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=30159&forum=28&start=20#523393 (11/2009)


    Edit: He has been a MorphZone member for more than 4.5 years.
    https://morph.zone/userinfo.php?uid=1754

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2010/6/30 14:54 ]
  • »28.06.10 - 09:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    So I guess that makes FOUR woots instead!
  • »28.06.10 - 09:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So I guess that makes FOUR woots instead!

    That's really just a small random selection. He has been filling amigaworld.net with pro-MorphOS statements for years.
  • »28.06.10 - 09:59
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:20 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »29.06.10 - 00:30
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2027 from 2003/6/4
    I think Varisys is charging usual costs to a-eon. a-eon always streched the fact, that the X1000 is not some re-used board, but designed for them.
    Alternatively it may well be that B.H. spent the rest of the money for booze, cars, chicks and buying friends.

    [ Edited by Zylesea on 2010/6/29 3:01 ]
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »29.06.10 - 01:00
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:21 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »29.06.10 - 01:18
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Condor
    Posts: 94 from 2005/9/1
    From: Zagreb/Croatia
    Why is so important faster CPU or GFX card, do we have any game or program which need more than G4 CPU. I don't mean emulators like DosBox or UAE where faster CPU is always better.
    We have only old Quake3, just old fps counter for many Mos/Os4 users. Do we have even old games like HalfLife or Morrowind? No. What if X1000 will have 3GHz x 6 CPU with 1+ GB high end GFX card??? What we can do with such powerful hardware? Only count fps in Quake3 and say Os4 is better than Mos, look Q3=11012 fps.
    I am more than happy with MacMini and Mos2.5. For available software more than enough.
    We need more software for our platforms, more than powerful and expensive hardware.
    Thank You developers/porters for all good stuff for our Amiga systems, and need more of You.
  • »29.06.10 - 13:37
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    ON SPOT!

    (now, after this memorable contribution of mine, I just sit back and wait for rows of developers to join...)
  • »29.06.10 - 13:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Why is so important faster CPU or GFX card, do we have any game
    > or program which need more than G4 CPU.

    Just one example that is relevant to me: watching HD video content. My 1.5 GHz G4 can't cope with 1080p at all and sometimes not even with 720p properly (depending on encoding and bitrate).

    > I don't mean emulators like DosBox or UAE where faster CPU is always better.

    And what if that's important to someone? In that case I think you answer your own question.

    > We have only old Quake3

    We have also newer FreedroidRPG, UFO: AI and other games, which struggle on my 1.5 GHz G4 with full effects and resolution enabled.

    > What if X1000 will have 3GHz x 6 CPU with 1+ GB high end GFX card???
    > What we can do with such powerful hardware?

    Watching 1080p video content for instance. But I guess that one 1.8 GHz core of PA6T is sufficient for this :-)

    > count fps in Quake3 and say Os4 is better than Mos

    OS4 on X1000 being faster than MorphOS on G4 Mac wouldn't mean that OS4 is better than MorphOS. It would not even mean that OS4 is faster than MorphOS. To be able to draw such a conclusion both OS would have to be run on the very same hardware (see both OS4 and MorphOS on Pegasos II benchmarks where MorphOS destroys OS4).

    > I am more than happy with MacMini and Mos2.5.

    Me too. But I would be lying if I said that there're no restrictions I would like to see overcome (see HD video content for instance).

    > For available software more than enough.

    Clearly depends on your needs and wants. What's enough for you might not be enough for someone else.
  • »29.06.10 - 14:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2027 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:


    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    Me too. But I would be lying if I said that there're no restrictions I would like to see overcome (see HD video content for instance).



    I agree. And while I am also very satisfied with my 1.5 GHZ Mac mini I would of course welcome a fully supported "Power7 for a pocket money". But this is real life and there the options are like they are and the X1000 approach is - while using a generally nice cpu - the wrong approach. IMHO that is.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »30.06.10 - 10:55
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  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @Andreas_Wolf

    For some 720p files that are a bit too slow, you might want to use -lavdopts skiploopfilter=all
    (or lavdopts=skiploopfilter=all in conf/config). It gives a 20-30% boost.
  • »30.06.10 - 12:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > For some 720p files that are a bit too slow, you might want to use
    > -lavdopts skiploopfilter=all
    > (or lavdopts=skiploopfilter=all in conf/config). It gives a 20-30% boost.

    Thanks for advice. I'll try that.
  • »30.06.10 - 13:44
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Struggling to absorb OpenGL under MorphOS and, I too, wouldn't mind more CPU and GPU power.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.07.10 - 02:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Dreamcast270mhz
    Posts: 152 from 2009/12/9
    From: Virginia,USA
    While the X1000 is currently vapourware, it is undeniably the highest performing PPC machine announced to date that is produced for an Amigalike OS, one which could blow an eMac sky-high, even my PMac G4 1.5 ghz is dwarved to it. Therefore, I say that the MorphOS team should:

    Recognize that this is a potential opportunity for Porting and new hardware, BUT they should not invest in it until it is either:

    Withdrawn
    Released and is a success
    Released and a bomb

    If it sells 1000 units, thats a success for our small community, in fact, considering we have a community of ~ 100k people, 1k units is one hundredth of our size, and can be a success on our scale. What would be nice is if someone released a e400 based PPC unit (Genesi?) that would cost $200, that would be well worth my money. An X1000 will take me a LONG time to save for.
    My Macs:
    Powerbook G4 ALU 1.5GHZ 15" 1.5GB OSX.5.8
    Powermac G4 MDD 1.5GHZ OSX.5.8 MOS2.7

    Want a part for a Mac? Let me know, I'll see what I can do.

    Amithlon is amazing, questions and help I can provide.
  • »02.07.10 - 02:31
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Once again, why port to this machine when G5 Macs are cheaper, plentiful, and just as powerful?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.07.10 - 03:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > they should not invest in it until it is either: Withdrawn

    ;-)

    > we have a community of ~ 100k people

    That's including all types of retro and part time Amigans, isn't it?

    > What would be nice is if someone released a e400 based PPC unit

    What's "e400"? Care to elaborate?
  • »02.07.10 - 12:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11551 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    >> What we can do with such powerful hardware?

    > Watching 1080p video content for instance. But I guess that
    > one 1.8 GHz core of PA6T is sufficient for this :-)

    ...or maybe not. Result with two cores running:

    "1080p videos are a little bit too slow."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6338#85587
  • »16.04.12 - 08:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2706 from 2003/2/24
    That's not good. Luckily the HW was cheap at least. Oh, wait...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »16.04.12 - 09:50
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    It's funny, people think the X1000 is expensive, and even I've made to odd sarcastic jibe but compared to some hobbies it's really quite cheap.
  • »16.04.12 - 20:07
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