MorphOS for PowerMAC G4 support coming
  • Fab
  • MorphOS Developer
    Fab
    Posts: 1331 from 2003/6/16
    @eva

    And while it's done on spare time, labelling it as "amateur" is offending too.
  • »30.12.09 - 18:50
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tronman
    Posts: 206 from 2003/3/3
    From: Preston, Wa
    19 developers is admirable, but compared to a commercial OS is a drop in the bucket. However this isn't quite the weakness it could be made out to be, because those 19 are way more on the same page than the vast and disparate groups or 'teams' that big developers like Microsoft have for their OS development.

    MorphOS is pretty professional for its small scale, and its interface is actually more consistent than Linux-one of the biggest criticisms leveled at Linux. It's a valid one too-ever tried to learn several softwares of similar type on a Linux distro? Every developer has their own bright ideas about how it should work-and they're all different from everyone else's. MorphOS, like Amiga before it, has the advantage of consistency provided by being closed-source.

    This is one big reason they can sell it as an OS you pay for. But back on topic, my scheme is good because a) All boxes are keyed by the MOS team individually, just like now. No MOS can run registered without the real, purchased key. b) No key leaves the MOS server without being paid for in advance-possibly well in advance. Finally, c) it becomes an actual practicality to have several MorphOS boxes in one house, all running the latest version so outside devs don't have to keep back-porting everything to 1.4x so most users can run it.

    Because right now, I'd have to spend a thousand dollars to get all my boxes running MOS. That's a lot of money, guys. Most of your target market doesn't have that kind of money :-( $500 is way more do-able. Some of quite a lot is better than all of almost none. You'd end up with no piracy and lots more users/money doing it my way. Just sayin'..

    You can still get as crazy as you want with MUI though :-)
  • »30.12.09 - 19:09
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    BurnTwice
    Posts: 38 from 2009/10/27
    @ koszer

    Yes of course we like to pay for that great OS, there has never been any doubt.
    But after some time it must be allowed to scrutinize scheme and prices introduced when commercialising MorphOS and see if it worked well or if there is room for improvement.

    It has come out, that the licencing scheme and the price is highly discussed not only in this forum. Furthermore, we see a lot of potential not activated because of the points named regarding the MorphOS policy.

    I don?t have the impression it?s all about whining, it?s abou ppl caring about their beloved system and its propagation. So a discussion is needed and the fora are the place to do it.

    I think it is a good thing as a feedback for the developers to improve things. Not negative at all.
  • »30.12.09 - 19:16
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:


    BurnTwice wrote:
    [...]
    I don't have the impression it's all about whining, it's abou ppl caring about their beloved system and its propagation. So a discussion is needed and the fora are the place to do it.

    I think it is a good thing as a feedback for the developers to improve things. Not negative at all.



    That's certainly how my comments are intended.

    The OS is worth the price to me for a single license, but the current licensing model will undoubtedly need an overhaul at some point.
    If things ever did go wrong for the MorphOS team (and I sincerely hope they do not), such that the license server was no longer available, I'd like to know that I could replace my dead Mac-mini and still be able to run the operating system I had paid E150 for.
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

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  • »30.12.09 - 20:09
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Jambalah
    Posts: 820 from 2008/3/30
    From: Roma, Italy
    @ eva:

    Why should it be a shame?! What?
    You cannot be agree with price or whatelse, but where do you find that shame!?
    I guess everyone want to work for a wage...
    I hope those "amateurs" could keep on working professionally and seriously as they are doing and shouldn't surrender and stop developing.
    The reason to buy or not an OS is personal and maybe I'm wrong but the team work deserve respect at least.
    I know minimum two persons (absolutely windows users) that like MorphOS so much. And both would buy it indipendently from price.
    Not so much, but.....
    Pegasos II 1 ghz
    Powermac G4 Quicksilver with Sonnet Encore 1.8 ghz
    Powermac G4 MDD single 1.25 ghz, silenced for ears health...
    Powermac G5 dual 2.7 ghz I'll be back...
    Powermac G5 dual 2.0 ghz
    Powerbook G4 1.67 ghz 17
  • »30.12.09 - 20:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    People are not used to pay for the operation system.

    If they want a new windows - they get it from the torrent site or it's already with their computer.

    If they want linux - it's free.

    If they want osx - it's with the mac they bought.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »30.12.09 - 22:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tronman
    Posts: 206 from 2003/3/3
    From: Preston, Wa
    Actually, Mac OS X charges for each upgrade-about a hundred bucks every year and a half or so. Yes, you get a copy with a new Mac or recent used one, but it's off to Craigslist for those of us with older Macs. 10.4 is kinda the place to stop with a G4 anyway-10.5 is pretty hardware intensive and 10.6 doesn't support PPC at all. I've got real Apple factory DVDs of every Mac OS from 10.0 to 10.4 but until I do a hackintosh, I'm not going any farther.

    FWIW, I can pick up G4 towers here for less than a hundred bucks all day long, Quicksilvers are cheap and plentiful.

    To use my example again, four hundred US dollars for two OS copies on two boxes is painful. Five hundred bucks for five of them is much more doable, at that point I could give boxes to my friends to propagate. Keys already paid for, problem solved, savvy?
  • »30.12.09 - 23:45
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  • Just looking around
    paradoxportal
    Posts: 14 from 2009/12/17
    I agree and I really enjoy reading this thread tbh.

    I think MorphOS will do great if it keeps finding hardware to use.

    wouldnt it help if we all had a new SoC based board that were exactly the same as eachother? even like the new EFIKA ARM or something.

    Regards.
  • »31.12.09 - 01:32
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 522 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    @Eva

    Well yeah, pathetic or not, if you're not willing to spend small amount of money to support your hobby, then I guess you need new, cheaper hobbies.

    I don't find it a shame in any way.

    PS. I don't consider myself amateur programmer even though I don't program for a living.

    [ Edited by Piru on 2009/12/31 3:59 ]
  • »31.12.09 - 01:48
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Sir_Lucas
    Posts: 112 from 2006/4/23
    From: Poland
    @Eva

    I totally disagree.
    First of all the ppl who are behind MorphOS aren't some kind of rookies. Writing an operating system is not something that can be done by anyone.
    I think you are being too harsh.
    Comparing MorphOS to any other mainstream OS is also pointless. We know that it lacks certain features. Nevertheless, in time it'll change.
    If you cannot support MorphOS team with your money then do something else, like writing some useful apps or organizing a party etc.
    But please stop writing that it's overpriced and whining that it could be better 'cause it's not helping anyone and can do a lot of damage instead!
  • »31.12.09 - 08:56
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vulture
    Posts: 178 from 2008/2/4
    From: Greece
    @jacadaps

    The point is, it makes more sense to give your customer a discount for more than 1 licenses (maybe a pack of 3 or 5 if not 2) than treating him as a possible cheater. We are a small community after all and the cheaters among us are (I'd like to believe) few if any at all. And the hardware lock would remain of course to keep it tied to specific machines. That said, there should be some clear plan of what happens with the key if a peg mobbo drops dead. There should be a cleanly defined way to transfer it to another machine. Of course, there might already be one I'm unaware of, but I haven't read anything definite about it in the forum so far.


    [ Edited by vulture on 2009/12/31 11:34 ]
  • »31.12.09 - 09:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2027 from 2003/6/4
    @ vulture

    Proof teh team your maschine is broken (I guess a serial debug output or some photo and good descrition will do) and you will get a key for another maschine. But indeed the prcedureseems not rock solid. Better: treat your hardware good ;-)
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

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    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »31.12.09 - 09:41
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    dake
    Posts: 204 from 2007/9/14
    From: The building p...
    I have a PegasosII registered at 111.11 euro and 4 (four) Mac minis registered at 150 euros each.
    I gave one mini to my girlfriend who is only familiar with microshit earlier, now 1 month later she hate her pc and never want to start it, she talked alot about MorphOS with her families how good it is.
    I gave one mini to my parents because they have vista, my mom is old and not in a hurry but even she complain about the time it takes to use the SLOW vista computer.
    When i show MorphOS for them my brother wanted one Mac mini with MorphOS to.
    You can call it amateur or whatever you like, for me its a proffesional OS that i do everything with, i getting older and older and i dont want to offer my youth to wait for some ridiculous OS to start or do some simple things that MorphOS can do at an instant.
    Keep complain and never show your support and maybe even MorphOS will face the death, then you can use your beloved xp, vista, 7, x or whatever and be happy to wait alot, reinstall the os now and then and no need to register.
    When you buy a new computer you automatically pay microshit or apple alot of money, its included in the price for the computer.
    One more thing: You dont need to pay 150 euro to use MorphOS, you can always reboot every 30 minutes, it will only take some seconds of your life:)

    [ Edited by dake on 2009/12/31 11:43 ]
    Forgot to tell many thanks to the highly proffesional developers of MorphOS, you are truly the best! and thanks for the incredibly fast register process, the last MorphOS keyfile only took 12 minutes to arrive!

    [ Edited by dake on 2009/12/31 11:51 ]
  • »31.12.09 - 10:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    dake wrote:

    I have a PegasosII registered at 111.11 euro and 4 (four) Mac minis registered at 150 euros each. I gave one mini to my girlfriend who is only familiar with microshit earlier, now 1 month later she hate her pc and never want to start it, she talked alot about MorphOS with her families how good it is. I gave one mini to my parents because they have vista, my mom is old and not in a hurry but even she complain about the time it takes to use the SLOW vista computer. When i show MorphOS for them my brother wanted one Mac mini with MorphOS too.


    Guys, do you realize this is the BEST thing we've heard in AGES about our beloved operating system? You left me speechless dake, nothing more to say.

    Go find another operating system that achieves what Dake says. Oh, well, yes, I remember one, in the early nineties, many people hare have fond memories of it. It sold itself alone, just by showing off.
    Don't you remember that sensation?
  • »31.12.09 - 10:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2706 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    boot_wb wrote:
    The OS is worth the price to me for a single license, but the current licensing model will undoubtedly need an overhaul at some point.


    I agree.

    And I see there is some whining going on here now, and from two directions as it seems:


    1) First we have those who thinks the price is too high, or would like to see discounts for multiple registrations.

    I think there is a point here, and in a completely unscientific manner (based solely on my own POV and willingness to spend) I would guess that at half the price, they could have sold 3x the amount of registrations, and at a third of the price, they could have sold 4x the amount, which could actually have meant *more* money instead of less. It could also have meant more users, which in long term could be worth more than a short term coin.

    But the policy is set, and set in stone as it seems, so there is little point in continue this discussion.


    2) Then we have those who whine about the first group of whiners, presenting "logical arguments" like: "How come you happily buy HW for 300 EUR or more, but when it comes to SW you think 150 EUR is too much money?"

    Well, there is a thing called Price Elasticity of Demand (Link: Wikipedia), this is real, and the point is that the price elasticity is different for different kind of products. In essence, some kinds of products gets "expensive" in people's minds faster than others. This is a fact, and some people should try to understand it.


    That said, I think that MorphOS is worth the money, especially if you look at *the whole picture*; the *total* cost of both OS *and* the supported HW, and what you *actually get for your money*.

    If your hobby is "Amiga NG", and you are prepared to spend money on this hobby, then MorphOS is *by far the cheapest option* compared to the only competing solution there is (and the OS is better performing on identical HW, it also offers better performance thanks to the much better performing HW it supports, it offers better Amiga compatibility, and it offers more and better features and specs).

    For "Amiga NG", MorphOS is the best and cheapest option. If you think it's too much money to spend on a hobby, find yourself a new hobby.

    Harsh, but true.


    Quote:


    paradoxportal wrote:
    I think MorphOS will do great if it keeps finding hardware to use.

    wouldnt it help if we all had a new SoC based board that were exactly the same as eachother? even like the new EFIKA ARM or something.


    I think much points in the direction that MorphOS 3.0 will be x86.

    :-)



    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma on 2009/12/31 12:23 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »31.12.09 - 11:21
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1319 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ takemehomegrandma

    Quote:

    Well, there is a thing called Price Elasticity of Demand (Link: Wikipedia), this is real, and the point is that the price elasticity is different for different kind of products. In essence, some kinds of products gets "expensive" in people's minds faster than others. This is a fact, and some people should try to understand it.


    'Some people' understand this quite well, in fact. However, the real fact is that the price elasticity is fully dependent on consumer perceptions that can only be changed if you openly challenge them. One approach is to ask why someone is willing to spend 500 EUR on a second or third Powerbook to run MorphOS on but hesitates to pay a fraction of that sum on a second or third MorphOS license, for instance.

    It would seem presumptuous to me if one assumed that the unavailability of multi-license discounts or public questioning of the concept are simply symptoms of ignorance. The reality is that many long-running software companies are successfully marketing products to private consumers, yet do not offer discounts for sales of less than five licenses nor family licenses either.
  • »31.12.09 - 12:07
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    @tmhg

    Quote:


    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Well, there is a thing called Price Elasticity of Demand (Link: Wikipedia), this is real, and the point is that the price elasticity is different for different kind of products. In essence, some kinds of products gets "expensive" in people's minds faster than others. This is a fact, and some people should try to understand it.

    That said, I think that MorphOS is worth the money, especially if you look at *the whole picture*; the *total* cost of both OS *and* the supported HW, and what you *actually get for your money*.

    If your hobby is "Amiga NG", and you are prepared to spend money on this hobby, then MorphOS is *by far the cheapest option* compared to the only competing solution there is (and the OS is better performing on identical HW, it also offers better performance thanks to the much better performing HW it supports, it offers better Amiga compatibility, and it offers more and better features and specs)


    Totally agree, and I think from this perspective (ie Hardware + OS = ?price) no-one would have a problem. For example, if the MOS team did not issue licenses seperately, but only through resellers (eg Amigakit) bundled with the hardware, I don't think anyone would have a problem paying E350 (200 h/w + 150 s/w) for a MorphOS equipped Mac-mini.

    It's just when the price is broken down that it seems expensive on the face of it.

    Quote:


    I think much points in the direction that MorphOS 3.0 will be x86.

    :-)



    Interesting! Any links/quotes on which you are basing this? (it truly is the first I've heard of it!)

    [EDIT]: I see here some of the speculative thinking behind this. Personally, I'd love to see a move to x86: not from any appreciation of the technical merit (or otherwise) of the architecture, but from a recognition of the reality of its current market domination of the desktop/notebook world coupled with a desire to see MorphOS succeed as a desktop/notebook OS.[/EDIT]

    Have a good New Year takemehomegrandma!

    [ Edited by boot_wb on 2009/12/31 15:34 ]
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

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  • »31.12.09 - 13:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Dreamcast270mhz
    Posts: 152 from 2009/12/9
    From: Virginia,USA
    @takemehomegrandma

    I don't think x86 is a good platform and you know my stance, but look at it this way:

    MOS 3.0 is on x86, we get active advertising etc. needed to draw a crowd. Well, with a such a small group of devs, however skilled, they con't add PCIe support, lets just say they have to omit a such feature. We'd be massacred by Wintel if we did that.

    So, the PPC platform, however shaky/expensive it is, is keeping MOS from perishing like BeOS, technically more powerful than Wintel, but still failing in the face of mass marketing. An X86 port would also alienate many a dedicated users, especially if the PPC side was ceased altogether, including me. I know you have the faith that it will move to a cheaper platform, but i think jumping to x86 is not ever going to be the answer. I think, with the Amiga community slowly growing or so it seems, we will get a larger userbase. So, at least allow the devs to finish the ports to G4 macs, and then we will talk about the advancement of MOS. I think, it should be an open forum vote as to the future of MOS after the g4 ports are completed. I, personally, would like to proceed to G5, and then we can start looking at ARM :)

    [ Edited by Dreamcast270mhz on 2009/12/31 9:05 ]
    My Macs:
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    Powermac G4 MDD 1.5GHZ OSX.5.8 MOS2.7

    Want a part for a Mac? Let me know, I'll see what I can do.

    Amithlon is amazing, questions and help I can provide.
  • »31.12.09 - 14:04
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 730 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    I also would enjoy a "32bit" G5 port but I don't hold my breath for it. Mac Minis are easy to find and have a reasonable price.

    [ Edited by Crumb on 2009/12/31 18:15 ]
  • »31.12.09 - 17:14
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    @Dreamcast270mhz,

    Although I agree with you that I would love to have MorphOS ported to the G5 and also someday made to support smp, so it could take advantage of the Dual G5's in the top of the line G5 PowerMacs, BUT, it really makes more sense to eventually port MorphOS over to cheap x86 hardware that everyone can buy at a good price with a warranty, or buy even cheaper used gear. Unless the jump from G4 to G5, or Cell processors can give us a long term future, x86 either sooner or later seems to be inevitable. I know a lot of people that have irrational attachment to the 68k and PPC legacy don't want to hear that, but it is a fact of life that using x86 and more standardized parts just makes more sense if we want MorphOS to survive long term.

    I have been saying for probably a year or more that going to the G4 Mac models was the best solution for the short term. The team has said (at least one or two members of the team anyway) that going to smp is not likely to happen and IIRC, the move to support the G5 is also a tall order that may not be the correct next step for the team to make. Although myself and many others would like to see the G5 PowerMac to be the next target after the current work on the G4 PowerMac, G4 eMac and G4 PowerBook/iBook's is completed. Truth is that with the current state of MorphOS (it's lightweight size and lightning speed), the 1.42GHz G4 PowerMac, & eMac, 1.5GHz G4 MacMini, and 1.67GHz PowerBook models, are all sufficiently powerful to run MorphOS at a very acceptable speed for most applications that people use everyday.

    Yes, we all are affected by the pollution of our minds over the last 20 years by advertising to make us think that we have to have more GHz of speed and more GB of storage space and that a 1.5GHz CPU can't be any good if there are 3+GHz CPUs available out there. But do we have to continue that flawed thinking and do any of you really believe that we have to follow the herd of cattle that don't know any better and keep upgrading to faster and faster CPU's. When is fast, going to be fast enough? I hope the MorphOS team always keeps efficiency as the top priority and as a result, code will remain small, fast and efficient.

    What ever decision the team makes for their next target platform, or Mac model to support, I can pretty much guarantee everyone that they are not going to put up a poll and let the members of this site, or any other, choose which hardware platform to port to next. It is the team's decision to make and not the community, though I am sure the team reads these message forums and takes into careful consideration all of the suggestions made here that are objective and not just fanatic emotional dribble (general comment at the community, not at Dreamcast270mhz).

    What ever the choice is that the team makes, the next jump to any different platform or even CPU, besides the G4 will take a great deal of work and time with the limited resources available to the MorphOS Team. This means that we will probably be using the G4 Pegasos1 & 2's and G4 Mac models that are supported by the MorphOS Dev Team, for many months before we can reasonably expect the team to support any new, or different CPU's or platforms. I don't think that is a good or bad thing, just a reasonable assumption.

    Personally I think that such a small team as the MorphOS Development Team has, is lucky to have so much talent and I admire what they have been able to accomplish in creating MorphOS2.4. It is much better in many ways than Linux is, which has hundreds of times more people working on it.

    For the short term I think the community should concentrate on enjoying what we have now and if they are able, to contribute to creating new apps, tools, utilities and games to use on MorphOS. Let the MorphOS Development Team work on deciding which platform or CPU is the best to move to next.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »01.01.10 - 02:47
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Dreamcast270mhz
    Posts: 152 from 2009/12/9
    From: Virginia,USA
    @amigadave

    Nice post, you do state some very good points and I respect that. As the general market now stands, x86 makes sense for mass production and the availability of parts. And maybe I was a little harsh in stating i'd leave the MOS scene, but porting it to x86 would not be very smart RIGHT NOW, because we need a large enough community to make a jump like that. I do have an intel box, but I have vowed not to upgrade it anymore because after getting my PPC macs, I want to stay with 68k and PPC as long as I can to avoid x86 again.

    Happy NY
    My Macs:
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    Want a part for a Mac? Let me know, I'll see what I can do.

    Amithlon is amazing, questions and help I can provide.
  • »01.01.10 - 04:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    You know whats funny about this thread it went from Powermac Morphos2 support to complaining about Morphos 2 pricing scheme.
    Now a few points:

    1. I'm a us user so Morphos is crazy high expensive due to euro pricing and dumb ass VAT which doesnt apply to us. yet, I bought morphos2 2 weeks after it came out to support it!

    2. All the whiners forget when Morphos was FREE from year 2000! Even when there was no funding they kept working so they are entitled to charge what they want.

    3. As much as we complain and write long elegant posts, Morphos Team probably has ZERO plans to change the pricing scheme. I'm sure they internally debated the pros and cons of the current system.

    4. Morphos team members need money to pay for gas and insurance for the new BMWs they drive from the first round of Morphos2 sales :)

    5. When the hell is the release date?
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »01.01.10 - 21:28
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11554 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Proof teh team your maschine is broken (I guess a serial debug output or some photo
    > and good descrition will do) and you will get a key for another maschine.

    Just to add: MorphOS Team said that the machine must be broken beyond repairability.
  • »02.01.10 - 01:26
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2706 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    ASiegel wrote:

    'Some people' understand this quite well, in fact. However, the real fact is that the price elasticity is fully dependent on consumer perceptions that can only be changed if you openly challenge them. One approach is to ask why someone is willing to spend 500 EUR on a second or third Powerbook to run MorphOS on but hesitates to pay a fraction of that sum on a second or third MorphOS license, for instance.


    No offense intended, but in my view that comment only shows lack of understanding of the PED concept.

    Quote:

    It would seem presumptuous to me if one assumed that the unavailability of multi-license discounts or public questioning of the concept are simply symptoms of ignorance. The reality is that many long-running software companies are successfully marketing products to private consumers, yet do not offer discounts for sales of less than five licenses nor family licenses either.


    You do what you have to do. And again for the record, I bought it. Partly (maybe 50% of my purchase decision) because I found it worth its price, partly because I want to support you.

    A pity (but an interesting observation) that this thread turned into *yet another* MorphOS price discussion. Like we haven't had enough of those...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »02.01.10 - 11:01
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1319 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    'Some people' understand this quite well, in fact. However, the real fact is that the price elasticity is fully dependent on consumer perceptions that can only be changed if you openly challenge them. One approach is to ask why someone is willing to spend 500 EUR on a second or third Powerbook to run MorphOS on but hesitates to pay a fraction of that sum on a second or third MorphOS license, for instance.


    No offense intended, but in my view that comment only shows lack of understanding of the PED concept.


    Quite the opposite. I am confident I understand this extremely well.

    My guess is that you fail to realize a number of things: First, even if the perceived value of a good decreases with every additional unit a consumer buys, there is a gap between the good's price and the maximum amount the consumer would be willing to pay for the first unit. So, if the second unit has 10% less perceived value for the consumer, that does not imply the price should be lowered by 10%. As long as the price is lower than the maximum amount a consumer is willing to pay for the n-th unit of a good, which usually equals the perceived value of this additional unit, there is no need to offer any discounts.

    Second, the perceived value of the n-th unit of a good is not determined by some ominous law of nature. Irregardless of what simplistic calculations first-semester marketing students have to do, there is no set of fixed mathematical rules to determine exactly how much value consumers will attribute to a particular good in real life. Even with a large set of statistical data, the best you can do is to make educated guesses. The primary reason for this is that people are people and not primitive robots (a.k.a. "homo oeconomicus"). The perception of value of the first or n-th unit of a good is often more based on feelings than on facts. In many cases, it is far more effective for a company to change the perception of consumers than to adapt its pricing model to their current opinions. Advertizing and other forms of communicating with consumers are the tools to achieve this.


    Quote:

    A pity (but an interesting observation) that this thread turned into *yet another* MorphOS price discussion. Like we haven't had enough of those...


    I personally don't mind discussions about the price. I would have chosen a different one.

    However, when, as has happened on MorphZone and Pegasosforum, people either explicitly or implicitly suggest that you have to be incompetent and / or ignorant to disagree with a need for multi-license discounts, I cannot help but feel insulted since I do disagree with it with regards to MorphOS, am not uneducated about marketing and know a gazillion successful companies that do not offer them either (some of which sell software that is more expensive than MorphOS).
  • »02.01.10 - 12:11
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