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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    AyoS
    Posts: 410 from 2003/8/13
    From: West Palm Beac...
    "Genesi is too small & not as popular to make much of a difference in the ppc market..."

    I see Genesi taking a different role in whatever Market they enter... the role of the initiator, instigator, product tester/developer, think Tank, etc... I dont think it matters what market they're in wether x86 or PPC, sparc, mips... it takes millions of investment capital to take a stab at the mass market in 2008. A small company that has good ideas will more likely partner with a large company to bring a product to the mass market. Its the only way that makes financial sense.
  • »17.01.08 - 01:05
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Raf_MegaByte
    Posts: 430 from 2004/10/10
    From: Nella grande r...
    If someone from MorphOS team had said me that MorphOS 2.0 will be presented on the market directly available at the same time for Classic Amiga PPC, Pegasos I and II, Efika and MacMini PPC, I could had understood, and I had had approved this porting on MacMinis...

    But unfortunately this concept-only porting of MorphOS 2.0 on MacMini, seems to me only that they are joking with MacMinis without releasing the MorphOS 2.0 for current userbase, and they have lots of time to loose, instead than putting on the market a real update product that we all (and I personally) had payed for it.

    We are stuck with MOS 1.4.5, and we are still waiting years to the full features always promised and never released...

    While waiting for MOS 2.0 I sure had had apprecciated to purchase a minor release of the OS to get usable 1Gigabit ehternet port, and official Firewire support... that we are still waiting for

    I could had waiting more years for MOS 2.0, as I waited years for new modern PPC machines since Commodore demise...

    But sure I cant bear all this time lost in waiting for features which could had improved the MorphOS/Pegasos experience (1gigabit ethernet) or features which could had helping the making of new software (Firewire port and all related video software never born)...

    I could have still patience if a MOS team spokersperson will reveal in public that at least the QBox has been improved and it is now full running, and that MorphOS optional SMP feature to run on multicore CPUs it will be fully available in release 2.0...

    I can't wait anymore for MOS 2.0...

    Nowadays I can afford it, in the future I don't know If I could spend my money to upgrade my Amiga-like machines.

    Life it is no more easy and cheaper as before 2001 and before Euro currency...

    Sure the place where I live (Italy) it is becoming very expensive place.
    No more time and no more money for fun computing or hobby computing.

    [ Edited by Raf_MegaByte on 2008/1/17 13:16 ]
    Bill Gates "Think!", Steve Jobs: "Think different!" So... Let these guy continue blabbering thinking and enjoy computing! We are on Amiga!
  • »17.01.08 - 11:15
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    koan
    Posts: 303 from 2005/11/21
    From: UK
    Hi Raf,

    What makes you think that MOS team are joking ? I think you mistake what looks like a concept port (I haven't seen the video) probably by one or two team members "on the side" with a full team all out effort.

    It doesn't mean that serious development has ceased. These kind of part time projects like MOS are massive and you shouldn't underestimate the effort that goes into them. Look at YAM and AWeb for example. I for one would have been happy for there to be more incremental releases but I'm not sure I would want a situation like AOS4 where they went to pre-release 4 (or higher ?) before there was a final release.

    I'm sure it's not easy but after you've hacked together a hardware abstraction layer for the Mac Mini, putting MOS on top of it is probably straightforward. I'd love to know what that involves and how hard it really is.

    You must live in a different world to me, my old A1200 plus accelerator and all the other bits and pieces cost a lot more than my fully loaded Peg 2 if you adjust for inflation. I don't see how owning a Pegasos or EFIKA is going to break the bank unless you are unemployed or have a big family.
  • »17.01.08 - 12:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2017 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:


    Raf_MegaByte wrote:
    If someone from MorphOS team had said me that MorphOS 2.0 will be presented on the market directly available at the same time for Classic Amiga PPC, Pegasos I and II, Efika and MacMini PPC, I could had understood, and I had had approved this porting on MacMinis...

    But unfortunately this concept-only porting of MorphOS 2.0 on MacMini, seems to me only that they are joking with MacMinis without releasing the MorphOS 2.0 for current userbase,



    adusting MOS to another computer (i.e. writing drivers etc.) is not the same as polishing other compounds of the OS.
    See e.g. MUI. it is just not totally polished but needs further polishing. The other MOS programmers not involved in MUI, what should they do while it takes its tim eto polish MUI? Nothing or better go on and proceed with the next steps?
    I knew what I would do...

    Note that I don't want to judge MUI as the release delayer, but MUI is one of the OS parts where development is quite easy to track (the many betas which made impressive improvements during the last months).
    I am sure MOS 2.0 comes as soon as possible and development on the Mac Mini port is not a delayer.

    Quote:



    Sure the place where I live (Italy) it is becoming very expensive place.



    Oh yes, Italy became insane expensive in some regards. Anyway, don't blame the Euro for that.

    [ Edited by Zylesea on 2008/1/17 14:15 ]
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »17.01.08 - 12:14
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Kamul
    Posts: 121 from 2004/6/9
    From: Poland, Katowice
    Quote:


    I could have still patience if a MOS team spokersperson will
    reveal in public that at least the QBox has been improved and
    it is now full running, and that MorphOS optional SMP feature
    to run on multicore CPUs it will be fully available in release 2.0...



    I'm afraid mythical QBox still doesn't even exist, so there's no place
    for improvements. Or maybe I've missed something?...
  • »17.01.08 - 12:22
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 423 from 2005/4/9
    From: magyarorszag/h...
    you've never ran morphos before havent you?
    do you know whats the first line of the mos booting?


    [ Edited by sadddam on 2008/1/17 15:20 ]
    DEAD pegII/G4@1000.1gb ram.radeon 9200pro
    240 gigz hd.nec dvdrw.MorphOS 2.4 DEAD
    -=-=-=-
    amiga1200T.blizzardppc@180/040@25.96megz ram
    -=-=-=-=-
    zx.spectrum@3.5
  • »17.01.08 - 13:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2017 from 2003/6/4
    @ saddam

    Well, Quark exists and on top of Quark there is a set of servers. But that's it mostly.
    To call that a "Box" is a bit exaggerated IMO.

    [ Edited by Zylesea on 2008/1/17 15:37 ]
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »17.01.08 - 13:36
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  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1516 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    Quote:


    I could have still patience if a MOS team spokersperson will reveal in public that at least the QBox has been improved and it is now full running, and that MorphOS optional SMP feature to run on multicore CPUs it will be fully available in release 2.0...



    Only ABox is relevant since it is the one that provides Amiga compatibility.
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »17.01.08 - 15:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ironfist
    Posts: 254 from 2004/4/22
    From: Pegasos.org
    Raf_Megabyte:
    "..to get usable 1Gigabit ehternet port.."

    The Gigabit-port on the Pegasos2 has been working
    with MorphOS since at least September 2004.
  • »18.01.08 - 19:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    winterhunter
    Posts: 204 from 2005/10/13
    From: PACA, France
    @Ironfist:
    I must have missed something, but HOW do you get the Gigabit port running on a Peg2 with MorphOS?
  • »18.01.08 - 19:50
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 423 from 2005/4/9
    From: magyarorszag/h...
    thats new to me too!
    or he meaned "working since 2004 in mos 1.5/2.0", but forgot to mention it.
    if gigabit working with mos 1.4.5, then show me a link where i can dl the driver pls!
    DEAD pegII/G4@1000.1gb ram.radeon 9200pro
    240 gigz hd.nec dvdrw.MorphOS 2.4 DEAD
    -=-=-=-
    amiga1200T.blizzardppc@180/040@25.96megz ram
    -=-=-=-=-
    zx.spectrum@3.5
  • »18.01.08 - 20:16
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ironfist
    Posts: 254 from 2004/4/22
    From: Pegasos.org
    The driver has been working since eSNDF in September
    2004. I saw it myself.

    Of course, the MorphOS Team refused to release it,
    just as they did with MorphOS 1.5.
  • »19.01.08 - 07:03
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Henes
    Posts: 505 from 2003/6/14
    Maybe it was "working" but not reliably at all.
    So, by my definition: it was not working yet and it is normal to not release such thing. Unless you have such poor opinion of MorphOS users...
  • »19.01.08 - 12:24
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Raf_MegaByte
    Posts: 430 from 2004/10/10
    From: Nella grande r...
    Quote:


    Henes wrote:
    Maybe it was "working" but not reliably at all.
    So, by my definition: it was not working yet and it is normal to not release such thing. Unless you have such poor opinion of MorphOS users...



    then, if this is their poor opinion of us MorphOS users, it is normal to wait an entire new OS release to have useful features that had improved the impact of platform amongst users and improved respectability of the platform in the market...

    I wonder how many video software could had been developed just only if we had had a working firewire port device...
    Bill Gates "Think!", Steve Jobs: "Think different!" So... Let these guy continue blabbering thinking and enjoy computing! We are on Amiga!
  • »19.01.08 - 15:34
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  • MorphOS Developer
    CISC
    Posts: 618 from 2005/8/27
    From: the land with ...
    Quote:

    then, if this is their poor opinion of us MorphOS users, it is normal to wait an entire new OS release to have useful features that had improved the impact of platform amongst users and improved respectability of the platform in the market...


    Can you atleast try to understand a post before you reply with your nonsense?

    Quote:

    I wonder how many video software could had been developed just only if we had had a working firewire port device...


    The port works just fine, someone "just" has to write a driver for it in MorphOS and a complete stack to handle the myriad of different protocols, not to mention pay a billion dollars to Apple, but hey, you're the expert, go ahead (or start asking what happened to that bounty Sonic started (though, better start by donating those billions))... :P

    (and BTW, my guess would be we'd have exactly 0 video-editing software because it too is too time- and cost-consuming to develop for a market such as this (and please, no, don't talk about the 2 (or so) open-source alternatives available before you've actually tried porting them))


    - CISC
  • »19.01.08 - 15:57
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    CountRaven
    Posts: 563 from 2007/12/10
    From: Greece
    And why someone already in Peg1/Peg2/MOS should be THAT happy with MOS
    2.0 running on a Mac Mini?... Ok it is another platform...

    I still think that the most corect point in the entire post was the
    one pointing an entire MOS 2.0 release for classic PPC Amiga,
    Peg1/Peg2 and MacMini in the same time....

    A port always bring good news and more fans but I would prefer to buy
    a Peg2 than a MacMini if you want my opinion.. The real good news is
    for those who still got a Peg1/Peg2 @ home and a Mac-Mini @ office and
    they want a MOS invasion -as already pointed-....

    Well someone should make OS4 to run on Peg1/Peg2 this WOULD be the
    topic of the year, don't you think?
  • »26.01.08 - 03:01
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tronman
    Posts: 206 from 2003/3/3
    From: Preston, Wa
    Well the 1.4GHz G4 in the mini was 400 MHz faster than any other hardware ever to run MOS, and it has giga-E, at least 4x AGP and a reasonably modern Radeon video card.

    Plus, their population is way more than the, what, 3 to 4 thousand Pegasos IIs which were made? Of course, that in itself is a huge number of actual running computers of somewhat modern vintage in the Amiga world :-/

    The Mac Mini hardware is, I'm guessing, also pretty close to that in their later G4 laptops, so that opens up a whole new world of MOS powered goodness. Who cares if they're second hand?

    There's much more future here than for example Classic hardware.

    While on the subject of modern PPC hardware, what ever happened to that dual e600 CPU that was supposed to come out? IIRC the Peg III was going to be based on it, it sounded awesome.
  • »28.01.08 - 00:38
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 37 from 2008/1/4
    From: Canada
    Tronman nailed it.

    The Mac Mini would be the most powerful system out there today to run MorphOS. Mac Mini CPU was G4 1.25 to 1.5Ghz. RAM 256 or 512 MB ( upgradeable to 1 GB ). Can easily find and buy used PPC Minis and less expensive.

    It is impossible to find PEG II motherboards and pricey when they are up for sale. Mac Mini is the better choice in my books, gives modern, more powerful hardware with lower used cost.

    I believe they scraped the dual core processor PEG III based off Freescale 8641D. Maybe would be too expensive? Or too little demand for it? Instead it seems they are working on a newer Efika with Freescale 8610 ( e600 single core ); top speed of 1.33Ghz.
    http://www.powerdeveloper.org/program/
  • »28.01.08 - 03:50
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    robjoh
    Posts: 79 from 2004/11/25
    From: Sweden
    Well with Efika and Mac Mini + Peg I/II there is at least a possiblility for a "non-user" like me to join the club. So a port to anyplattform is possitive in my opinion.

    The Efika 8610 sounds intressting too and I hope BBRV will give MorphOS team some free boards.
  • »28.01.08 - 05:07
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tronman
    Posts: 206 from 2003/3/3
    From: Preston, Wa
    Cisc, with regard to the firewire driver-did the Linux guys 'pay a billion dollars to Apple' to get their firewire stack working? Did every Linux guy send Linus a hundred bucks so he could buy the rights from Apple to get the firewire ports woken up on their hardware?

    I don't think so.

    Sonic, any comments on the progress of your firewire stack?

    And finally, yes, at this point, years into the game, I don't think a 'pre-release' deal with MOS 2.0 would be so bad. We've seen videos of it. We've seen it on a Mac mini. Bug reports commonly get answered with 'oh, we fixed that for MOS 2.0'. It's getting about time to put money where mouth is, guys.

    We're already living with what is essentially a beta snapshot, so why can't we have a more official, newer beta snapshot to massage for a few more years?
  • »29.01.08 - 16:29
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  • MorphOS Developer
    CISC
    Posts: 618 from 2005/8/27
    From: the land with ...
    Quote:

    Cisc, with regard to the firewire driver-did the Linux guys 'pay a billion dollars to Apple' to get their firewire stack working? Did every Linux guy send Linus a hundred bucks so he could buy the rights from Apple to get the firewire ports woken up on their hardware?


    AFAIK it was a sponsorship, like with bluetooth (there are a lot of companies that use Linux in their embedded devices and need support for these things), even then Linux firewire support is somewhat limited...

    Quote:

    We're already living with what is essentially a beta snapshot, so why can't we have a more official, newer beta snapshot to massage for a few more years?


    Because.


    - CISC
  • »30.01.08 - 06:10
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Jupp3
    Posts: 1193 from 2003/2/24
    From: Helsinki, Finland
    (about GBE drivers)
    Quote:

    Maybe it was "working" but not reliably at all.

    Hey, it can't be worse then MOSnet :-P
  • »30.01.08 - 13:26
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ChatDEau
    Posts: 248 from 2003/4/4
    From: MONTREAL, Quebec
    What is the point of having MOS on MacPPC anyway, now that Apple switched over to Intel processors.

    Appart the fact that it could run on Mac machines that people will get rid of in the next few years or maybe just for the fun of running it on a Mac.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • »07.02.08 - 14:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Phantom
    Posts: 381 from 2004/9/7
    This was my last move, till MorphOS 2.0 will be efficient to run on MacMini series.

    I sold my Pegasos2. I didn't sell it because of tired of waiting MorphOS 2.0 etc, but it's another story for me.

    Thanks to everybody, and I hope MorphOS 2.0 on MacMini will not fade to black.

    Regards!
  • »11.02.08 - 17:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tronman
    Posts: 206 from 2003/3/3
    From: Preston, Wa
    I emailed Ben Collins, the actual firewire Linux driver repository keeper, and here's the text of that mail..

    Begin Quoted mail

    "On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 15:52 -0800, Tronguy wrote:
    > > Hi there
    > >
    > > I am writing to you as an explorer. Myself and others are interested in
    > > the possibility of getting a working firewire stack going on the
    > > alternative operating system MorphOS. Strangely, the core developer
    > > team doesn't seem to be too hyped on this, because they say it is
    > > necessary to pay Apple a large sum of money to get the rights to make
    > > firewire work on another OS.
    > >
    > > Is this true? Was there ever any Apple involvement in the Linux
    > > firewire drivers, through a grant, documentation, or otherwise? Perhaps
    > > some company that needed firewire to work on Linux gave Apple some money
    > > for the NDK to make this happen?

    It's entirely untrue. The only thing Apple gets money for is hardware
    that has firewire ports on them. Implementing the IEEE-1394 spec doesn't
    cost anything (however, the documentation from IEEE obviously costs
    money to get). " end of quote

    and even most of the documentation can be had for free if you know where to look. Apple gets money presumably from chipset vendors, as you can go out and buy firewire cards separate and it would be impracticable for Apple to try and bill every single x86 or other mobo maker in the world who stuck a firewire port on their board.

    Maybe we should all just pay Sonic the billion dollars instead ;-)
  • »13.02.08 - 02:51
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