How to run MorphOS on unsupported G5 PCIe
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 379 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    @zukow:

    Thanks for the hint! I guess if I am able to flash a X1900 GT/XT running the G5 11,2 with MorphOS/Linux/MacOS is less cumbersome than with 2 cards.

    I only found this X1900 GT Mac-BIOS on MacElite (klick). Did you use this one? As far as I've seen the Mac X1900 GT has 256 MiB RAM. Would be interesting to know if you can flash this BIOS to a 512 MiB card and it does still work? If so, there would be quite a range of X1900 cards suitable!

    Flashing on a PC is not a big problem with PCIe cards. Probably flashrom (on Linux) works too and you don't even need Windows/ATIflash.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.13 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [Amiga OS 3.2]
  • »13.11.19 - 11:52
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 556 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    I had mac OF rom from somethere (probably from here:http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2), i don't have any original Mac PCIe Radeon. Windows version of Atiflash didn't work but Dos version worked from USB.
  • »13.11.19 - 12:01
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 478 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Thanks Piku from trying out if a Realtek 8111E card works.
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  • »19.11.19 - 23:54
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 379 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    zukow schrieb:
    I had mac OF rom from somethere (probably from here:http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2), i don't have any original Mac PCIe Radeon. Windows version of Atiflash didn't work but Dos version worked from USB.

    Thanks! Now got my Radeon X1900 XT which looks like one of the cards of the compatibility list pictures. Then I realized I still need to get this special LogicBoard->PCIe power cable. Which isn't a standard PCIe power cable, isn't it? What a surprise. ;-)
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.13 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [Amiga OS 3.2]
  • »21.11.19 - 17:17
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 478 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    Quote:

    zukow schrieb:
    I had mac OF rom from somethere (probably from here:http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2), i don't have any original Mac PCIe Radeon. Windows version of Atiflash didn't work but Dos version worked from USB.

    Thanks! Now got my Radeon X1900 XT which looks like one of the cards of the compatibility list pictures. Then I realized I still need to get this special LogicBoard->PCIe power cable. Which isn't a standard PCIe power cable, isn't it? What a surprise. ;-)


    Bought me an x1900 xt which I noticed in the picture had the aux power cable for the video card all for $14 shipped. :) Came in today. Will get to try MorphOS this evening. No ethernet, but I will grab a handful of files and put them on a USB memory stick for now.
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  • »21.11.19 - 19:20
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 60 from 2017/8/7
    I tested the mentioned card this morning; it is unsupported yet, it seems.
    it is right between
    X1900GT
    ~> X1900XT <~
    X1950XT.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=12146&post_id=143678&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&showonepost=1


    [ Edited by amifrog 21.11.2019 - 20:08 ]
  • »21.11.19 - 20:06
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 478 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    amifrog wrote:
    I tested the mentioned card this morning; it is unsupported yet, it seems.
    it is right between
    X1900GT
    ~> X1900XT <~
    X1950XT.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=12146&post_id=143678&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&showonepost=1



    Oh no! :( Which version is your x1900xt? Mine is a Sapphire x1900 XT 512MB. PC one of course... Just to be sure, did you try the 2nd DVI port on the card?
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  • »21.11.19 - 20:42
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 60 from 2017/8/7
    Mine is the Mac G5 version with 256MB. I get a white screen on boot.
  • »21.11.19 - 20:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 478 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    amifrog wrote:
    Mine is the Mac G5 version with 256MB. I get a white screen on boot.


    Ahhh, gotcha... When you boot from a CD, does it ever get passed that white screen?? I used to have an issue where the CD drive itself would hang the system and stay at the white screen when booting from the CD. I changed the CD drive and it finally got passed it. Though, unsure if that would be the case for the G5. The Mirror Drive G4 that I have did that to me.
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  • »21.11.19 - 21:04
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 60 from 2017/8/7
    Dunno. The CD reads fine from Mac OSX and it seems it is load files. If i could get it to verbose mode and booting from CD at the same time would be nice.

    Edit
    i tried again, i can definitely hear the files being loaded from CD.

    [ Edited by amifrog 21.11.2019 - 21:57 ]
  • »21.11.19 - 21:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 478 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    amifrog wrote:
    Dunno. The CD reads fine from Mac OSX and it seems it is load files. If i could get it to verbose mode and booting from CD at the same time would be nice.

    Edit
    i tried again, i can definitely hear the files being loaded from CD.


    Crazy. I am about to put in the PC version of the x1900 xt in the Quad 2.5 and see if it will go. I will report later. I don't have an ethernet PCIe card yet, but I can still put some files on a USB stick and copy over to try out a few things.
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  • »21.11.19 - 23:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11052 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Mine is the Mac G5 version with 256MB.

    As far as I know, there never was a Mac G5 version of the X1900XT, just of the X1900GT. So what you might have is either an X1900GT or an X1900XT re-flashed with the X1900GT PPC ROM.
  • »21.11.19 - 23:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 478 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    I got the G5 Quad to boot up and it works great with the Sapphire 512 MB x1900 XT.

    I had to temporarily use the Nvidia card on another PCI-E port so that I could hold down ALT and choose the CD rom drive to boot MorphOS, then I turned off the monitor, then carefully removed the DVI cable from the Nvidia to the ATi. Worked great.

    For whatever reason, my G5 tower refused to boot from the CD drive, even when I was holding down the C key at startup...

    Everything came to a halt though. LCS is bad... No visible sign of it gone bad, but I will take out the LCS another day. Temps got too hot and when I went to reboot, the mac itself threw 2 red lights on and fans went on full speed.

    May change it out for some heatsinks from a 2.0 GHz.
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  • »22.11.19 - 02:51
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 478 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    ***Correcting my mistake***

    After comparing the differences on pictures, it might not even be possible to use heatsinks from an older G5 to the newer model G5. Differences and stuff would get in the way and not line up correctly.
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  • »22.11.19 - 07:57
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 60 from 2017/8/7
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Mine is the Mac G5 version with 256MB.

    As far as I know, there never was a Mac G5 version of the X1900XT, just of the X1900GT. So what you might have is either an X1900GT or an X1900XT re-flashed with the X1900GT PPC ROM.


    Maybe. At least it is running, to bad, it is not one of the compatibles.
    System Profiler says Radeon X1900 XT (vendor 0x1002, id 0x7240, ROM 113-A52070-109), and the card works with 10.4 and 10.5.

    Vendor database says it's a R580.

    Too bad, if it is not going to run MorphOS. At least it is faster than my Nvidia7800GT.:)

    [ Edited by amifrog 22.11.2019 - 09:47 ]
  • »22.11.19 - 09:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11052 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > System Profiler says Radeon X1900 XT (vendor 0x1002, id 0x7240,
    > ROM 113-A52070-109) [...]. Vendor database says it's a R580.

    Yes, both X1900 GT and X1900 XT have the R580 GPU. I still think your card is not a genuine PPC ROM card but a re-flashed one.

    > Too bad, if it is not going to run MorphOS.

    MorphOS might work if you re-flash the original x86 ROM to the card.
  • »22.11.19 - 10:45
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 60 from 2017/8/7
    Hm, but then i need to put one of the NVidia cards back into the machine to keep OSX working. And i only have one fast slot, obviously.
  • »22.11.19 - 11:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11052 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > i only have one fast slot, obviously.

    Does x16 vs. x8 speed make a difference in terms of perceived real-life performance on OSX or MorphOS?
  • »22.11.19 - 12:56
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    ThePlayer
    Posts: 1039 from 2003/3/24
    From: Hamburg/Germany
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > i only have one fast slot, obviously.

    Does x16 vs. x8 speed make a difference in terms of perceived real-life performance on OSX or MorphOS?


    Afaik no. I´ve read an article on Computerbase.de some years ago. They tested GFX Card with 16x and 8x PCI Speed and there was a difference of less then 3% in Games. Even today the fastest GFX Card not much worse in 8x compared to 16x.
    https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus
    https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-pci-express-scaling/24.html
    But for modern GFX Cards PCIE 1 and 2 could be a bottleneck.

    @Doffo So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    Oh and by the way does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    [ Editiert durch ThePlayer 22.11.2019 - 20:09 ]
    PowerBook 17" SuperHD-Display MOD 1920x1200 :)
  • »22.11.19 - 19:55
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 60 from 2017/8/7
    If i find the time i am going to benchmark the cards in both slots to be sure.
  • »22.11.19 - 20:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11052 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    He's apparently not the only one who does, see comments #3 and #6 for instance.

    > does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    X1900 GT Mac edition. Other X19x0 cards may be supported when flashed with the PPC ROM from the X1900 GT Mac edition.
  • »22.11.19 - 21:47
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    ThePlayer
    Posts: 1039 from 2003/3/24
    From: Hamburg/Germany
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    He's apparently not the only one who does, see comments #3 and #6 for instance.

    > does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    X1900 GT Mac edition. Other X19x0 cards may be supported when flashed with the PPC ROM from the X1900 GT Mac edition.


    That is great, so one can use easily a PC Radeon and don`t care about flashing.
    So no Driver Support on 10.5.8 of 2xxx and 3xxx Radeon?

    Did someone Bench the G5 2,7 AGP against Quad G5 2,5 Ghz in Games and MKV 1080p playback?
    I`ve heard that the Quad should be faster because of the RAM and BUS.
    PowerBook 17" SuperHD-Display MOD 1920x1200 :)
  • »23.11.19 - 12:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11052 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So no Driver Support on 10.5.8 of 2xxx and 3xxx Radeon?

    The issue here is not generally the drivers but specifically the ROM. Contrary to Linux and MorphOS, OSX on PPC relies on the PPC ROM of the graphics card, and the X1900 GT happens to be the last Radeon card that came in a variant with PPC ROM.
  • »23.11.19 - 13:59
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 478 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    ThePlayer wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    He's apparently not the only one who does, see comments #3 and #6 for instance.

    > does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    X1900 GT Mac edition. Other X19x0 cards may be supported when flashed with the PPC ROM from the X1900 GT Mac edition.


    That is great, so one can use easily a PC Radeon and don`t care about flashing.
    So no Driver Support on 10.5.8 of 2xxx and 3xxx Radeon?

    Did someone Bench the G5 2,7 AGP against Quad G5 2,5 Ghz in Games and MKV 1080p playback?
    I`ve heard that the Quad should be faster because of the RAM and BUS.


    I personally wanted to try different things like this. See how good certain videos played on the PCI-E Mac G5 vs the older G5.

    My Quad 2.5 turned out to be a lemon. The LCS is toast, and "rebuilding it" proved to be wasteful as I had a hard time getting it to properly fill etc.. The Pump itself might be ruined since it was basically empty.

    No worries, gonna source me a single cpu/dual core G5 in time.
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  • »23.11.19 - 23:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2736 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Doffo wrote:
    Quote:

    ThePlayer wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    He's apparently not the only one who does, see comments #3 and #6 for instance.

    > does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    X1900 GT Mac edition. Other X19x0 cards may be supported when flashed with the PPC ROM from the X1900 GT Mac edition.


    That is great, so one can use easily a PC Radeon and don`t care about flashing.
    So no Driver Support on 10.5.8 of 2xxx and 3xxx Radeon?

    Did someone Bench the G5 2,7 AGP against Quad G5 2,5 Ghz in Games and MKV 1080p playback?
    I`ve heard that the Quad should be faster because of the RAM and BUS.


    I personally wanted to try different things like this. See how good certain videos played on the PCI-E Mac G5 vs the older G5.

    My Quad 2.5 turned out to be a lemon. The LCS is toast, and "rebuilding it" proved to be wasteful as I had a hard time getting it to properly fill etc.. The Pump itself might be ruined since it was basically empty.

    No worries, gonna source me a single cpu/dual core G5 in time.



    If you're just going to recycle, or trash your Quad core G5, let me know. I wouldn't mind trying to fix it for myself, if all I need to do is drive to Nevada from California to get it. I could swap another G5 system with you. I have a spare Dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac that has the demo version of MorphOS already installed on it and appears to run great, but I would want to remove the video card I currently have in it, so you would need to provide your own video card. I also have a Dual 2.5GHz G5 system that has damage to the motherboard, which only allows one of the two G5 CPU's to run/show up as running, which does not matter for MorphOS, which only currently uses a single G5 CPU. If either of those system is easier for you to convert to air cooled heat sinks, you are welcome to either of them in exchange for your Quad core G5 PowerMac 11.2 model.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »24.11.19 - 03:54
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