MorphZone

Sata and SCSI PCI card on Pegasos or Mac

Goodman

# 1
Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 112 from 2006/8/2

Hi

I'd like to know if it is possible to boot Morphos from an hard drive connected on a SATA or SCSI PCI cards.
»28.03.19 - 15:45

Amigaharry2

# 2
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6

From: EU-Austria (Wien)

My scsi-card is recognized by Open Firmware on Pegasos (show-devs). For that it is possible to boot kernel (boot.img) from that drive.
MorphOS should then be able to boot from a connected scsi-drive. Think it's the same on MAC, but I've to check that.
Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
»28.03.19 - 16:33

Kronos

# 3
Moderator

Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24

On a Mac you need a card with PPC/OF ROM.

These are either cards by Sonnet, quite rare, or normal SIl 3112 cards flashed with the Wiebetech ROM.

I never bothered flashing, and my PMac loads the boot.img from a CF card on the IDE which than boots an RDB partioned SSD on the SIL ( x86 bios).
»28.03.19 - 16:50

Goodman

# 4
Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 112 from 2006/8/2

Quote:

Amigaharry2 wrote:
My scsi-card is recognized by Open Firmware on Pegasos (show-devs). For that it is possible to boot kernel (boot.img) from that drive.
MorphOS should then be able to boot from a connected scsi-drive. Think it's the same on MAC, but I've to check that.

Nice what's your SCSI card?

PS I've got a Pegasos 1
»28.03.19 - 17:33

Goodman

# 5
Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 112 from 2006/8/2

Quote:

Kronos wrote:
On a Mac you need a card with PPC/OF ROM.

These are either cards by Sonnet, quite rare, or normal SIl 3112 cards flashed with the Wiebetech ROM.

I never bothered flashing, and my PMac loads the boot.img from a CF card on the IDE which than boots an RDB partioned SSD on the SIL ( x86 bios).

Do you need a PPC/OF ROM for a Pegasos?

Don't you have any issues when writing and deleting files using a CF card? I guess Morphos does not support Trim but a CF card is more a PATA drive than an SSD innit?
»28.03.19 - 17:48

Amigaharry2

# 6
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6

From: EU-Austria (Wien)

@Goodman: Adaptec Card with LSI/Symbioslogic Chip (-> https://www.morphos-team.net/hardware)
Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
»28.03.19 - 18:08

Kronos

# 7
Moderator

Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24

For Pegasos x86 cards are good.

Also not much writing on my CF card as it only contains the boot.img.
»28.03.19 - 20:00

Andreas_Wolf

# 8
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12074 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> Do you need a PPC/OF ROM for a Pegasos?

I don't think the Pegasos can boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM.
»28.03.19 - 22:20

Amigaharry2

# 9
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6

From: EU-Austria (Wien)

Oh, it will boot - and more perfect than you expect! OF is smart! In normal cases (with only built in IDE) it creates at runtime the hd: device, which points on first bootable partition, found on IDE port. hd is the device-alias for full hardware-path to that device. In my case I use a bootmenue, which points for booting only to device-alias-name hd: (not to the full hardwarepath). If there is an SCSI-Card with HD, ZIP,etc. inserted, OF takes this as first bootable path and points hd to the first bootable device on SCSI-BUS. In my case boot command boot hd:0 boot.img BD=<your Sys-partition> boots from SCSI when available, or if not, from built-in IDE.
Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
»29.03.19 - 09:15

Andreas_Wolf

# 10
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12074 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

>>> Do you need a PPC/OF ROM for a Pegasos?

>> I don't think the Pegasos can boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM.

> Oh, it will boot - and more perfect than you expect! OF is smart!

You successfully tried to boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM? PPC Macs also have OF, but cannot boot from cards with non-PPC/OF ROM apparently.
»29.03.19 - 15:06

Amigaharry2

# 11
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6

From: EU-Austria (Wien)

Only on Pegasos - yes, booting Kernel from an old 128MB IOMEGA SCSI-ZIP-drive! It's not a special card for PPC-OF - it's a normal SCSI-Card for X86 PCs. Peg OF reads X86-ROM-Code too.

Seems MacOF does'nt recognize cards with X86-ROM-code (seems to be the same problem as X86-GraphicCards have). But after loading Quark-Kernel from elsewhere you may boot the rest from such a card/drive.

Btw: In the past my PowerMac G5 (not G4 Macs) has serious problems with such cards even under MOS. I gave one card to Frank Mariak to fix that problem, which was done by one of the MOS-releases in the past. But I think there is no way to boot the Kernel from a SCSI-card without PPC-ROM-code on it......

There is another very interresting thing about benefits of Pegasos SmartFimware: I've testet a HP-SCSI(III)-card which has additional ethernet on board (AM79C972), which is (unfortunately) not supported by MOS - but OF finds it und builds a Node in OF-tree during runtime. It is possible to boot a kernel (or a special install.img like EFIKA-install.img) from a TFTP-server! (It's not possible to boot Morphos complete via Ethernet, because Quark-Kernel has no TCP-Stack)

[ Editiert durch Amigaharry2 29.03.2019 - 17:14 ]
Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
»29.03.19 - 17:10

Goodman

# 12
Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 112 from 2006/8/2

Quote:

Amigaharry2 wrote:
Only on Pegasos - yes, booting Kernel from an old 128MB IOMEGA SCSI-ZIP-drive! It's not a special card for PPC-OF - it's a normal SCSI-Card for X86 PCs. Peg OF reads X86-ROM-Code too.

Seems MacOF does'nt recognize cards with X86-ROM-code (seems to be the same problem as X86-GraphicCards have). But after loading Quark-Kernel from elsewhere you may boot the rest from such a card/drive.

Btw: In the past my PowerMac G5 (not G4 Macs) has serious problems with such cards even under MOS. I gave one card to Frank Mariak to fix that problem, which was done by one of the MOS-releases in the past. But I think there is no way to boot the Kernel from a SCSI-card without PPC-ROM-code on it......

There is another very interresting thing about benefits of Pegasos SmartFimware: I've testet a HP-SCSI(III)-card which has additional ethernet on board (AM79C972), which is (unfortunately) not supported by MOS - but OF finds it und builds a Node in OF-tree during runtime. It is possible to boot a kernel (or a special install.img like EFIKA-install.img) from a TFTP-server! (It's not possible to boot Morphos complete via Ethernet, because Quark-Kernel has no TCP-Stack)

[ Editiert durch Amigaharry2 29.03.2019 - 17:14 ]

Is the PCI-X slot still unsupported by MOS?

I have only 1 PCI slot free cause on the other two I have an USB 2.0 card and a Vodoo/Radeon card.
(I don't use AGP slot anymore on Peg1: I remember somehow it cause errors when copying files.)

When you use only PCI slots which slot would you choose for a SCSI or SATA card?
»29.03.19 - 18:14

Amigaharry2

# 13
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6

From: EU-Austria (Wien)

On my PEG2 it makes no difference which PCI-Slot I use. For PEG1 I cannot speak. But its very new for me, that PEG1 should have PCI-X!!
I think all PEGs only have normal 3,3V-PCI-slots. Please pay attention that your card is no 5V-only-coded - it will not fit or damage system!
Only 3.3V or 3.3V&5V-dualcoded cards are useable.
Please refer to Pegasos manual!

I also don't know what SmartFirmware version PEG1 has - I hope it's similar to PEG2, otherwise booting won't work.
Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
»29.03.19 - 18:34

Andreas_Wolf

# 14
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12074 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

>>>> I don't think the Pegasos can boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM.

>>> Oh, it will boot - and more perfect than you expect! OF is smart!

>> You successfully tried to boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM?

> yes [...]! It's not a special card for PPC-OF - it's a normal SCSI-Card for X86 PCs.

So actually, you did *not* try to boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM. How do you know this would work with the Pegasos then?

> Seems MacOF does'nt recognize cards with X86-ROM-code (seems to be
> the same problem as X86-GraphicCards have). [...] I think there is no way
> to boot the Kernel from a SCSI-card without PPC-ROM-code on it......

Exactly. And AFAIK, the Pegasos OF doesn't recognize graphics cards with PPC/OF ROM. Why should this be different with SCSI or SATA cards with PPC/OF ROM?
»29.03.19 - 23:39

Andreas_Wolf

# 15
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12074 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> Is the PCI-X slot still unsupported by MOS?

The Pegasos (I and II) does not have any PCI-X slots. Its PCI and AGP slots (including the AGP slot of the Pegasos II, which is derived from a PCI(-X) controller) have been supported by MorphOS all along, as have been the PCI(-X) and AGP slots of the PowerMac G4.
The PCI(-X) slots of the MorphOS-supported PowerMac G5 models have been fully supported since MorphOS 3.4.

> I don't use AGP slot anymore on Peg1: I remember somehow it cause errors
> when copying files.

This shouldn't happen with the April2 fix at least. Do you have April1 or even a non-fixed Peg1?
»30.03.19 - 00:11

Andreas_Wolf

# 16
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12074 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> I think all PEGs only have normal 3,3V-PCI-slots. Please pay attention
> that your card is no 5V-only-coded - it will not fit or damage system!
> Only 3.3V or 3.3V&5V-dualcoded cards are useable.

Actually, the PCI slots of both Pegasos I and II are 5V, so only 5V or 3.3/5V-dualcoded cards are usable.
»30.03.19 - 00:34

Goodman

# 17
Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 112 from 2006/8/2

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> Is the PCI-X slot still unsupported by MOS?

The Pegasos (I and II) does not have any PCI-X slots. Its PCI and AGP slots (including the AGP slot of the Pegasos II, which is derived from a PCI(-X) controller) have been supported by MorphOS all along, as have been the PCI(-X) and AGP slots of the PowerMac G4.
The PCI(-X) slots of the MorphOS-supported PowerMac G5 models have been fully supported since MorphOS 3.4.

> I don't use AGP slot anymore on Peg1: I remember somehow it cause errors
> when copying files.

This shouldn't happen with the April2 fix at least. Do you have April1 or even a non-fixed Peg1?

My Peg has April2. I remember problems only occurred when AGP and USB 2.0 cards were working together: when copy from Ram or PATA HD to USB pen drive plugged on USB 2.0 port for example and I had tried all the USB 2.0 chips on the earth: no way. One day I was just trying a Voodoo 3 PCI on Peg and bugs disappeared.
Then I bought a new Radeon 9250 128 MB PCI but I still didn't have time to try it. Hopefully it will work!

Why is the first PCI slot a little bigger?
»30.03.19 - 11:18

Kronos

# 18
Moderator

Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24

Quote:

Goodman wrote:

Why is the first PCI slot a little bigger?

Allows for a riser to be plugged in to mount cards parallel to the mobo. (carries the signal that aren't shared between the PCI-slots).

Not sure wether such an riser was ever made or if it follows a standard of some sort.

[ Edited by Kronos 30.03.2019 - 13:08 ]
»30.03.19 - 13:08

Amigaharry2

# 19
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6

From: EU-Austria (Wien)

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf schrieb:

So actually, you did *not* try to boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM. How do you know this would work with the Pegasos then?

Where did I wrote that I've boot from a SCSI Card with PPC-OF-ROM?? I've never seen such a card....

What I've said is this in Post #11:

Only on Pegasos - yes, booting Kernel from an old 128MB IOMEGA SCSI-ZIP-drive! It's not a special card for PPC-OF - it's a normal SCSI-Card for X86 PCs. Peg OF reads X86-ROM-Code too.
Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
»30.03.19 - 19:05

amigadave

# 20
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2794 from 2006/3/21

From: Northern Calif...

Quote:

Amigaharry2 wrote:
Quote:

Andreas_Wolf schrieb:

So actually, you did *not* try to boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM. How do you know this would work with the Pegasos then?

Where did I wrote that I've boot from a SCSI Card with PPC-OF-ROM?? I've never seen such a card....

What I've said is this in Post #11:

Only on Pegasos - yes, booting Kernel from an old 128MB IOMEGA SCSI-ZIP-drive! It's not a special card for PPC-OF - it's a normal SCSI-Card for X86 PCs. Peg OF reads X86-ROM-Code too.

Andreas_Wolf wrote:

"I don't think the Pegasos can boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM. "

and your next reply in this thread stated the following:

"Oh, it will boot - and more perfect than you expect! OF is smart! In normal cases".

Most people would take your statement that "it will boot" as that you had tested it on your Pegasos2 system, which you apparently have not. That is why Andreas_Wolf has questioned your statement, and challenged it saying that he does not believe that any cards with PPC-OF ROM will work. I'm sure he will correct me if I have misinterpreted his meaning from his comments.

If you were not replying to Andreas_Wolf's statement "I don't think the Pegasos can boot from a card with PPC/OF ROM", then this is where the misunderstanding has come from, and all you need to do is clarify which comment you were replying to, if it was not the comment immediately before your post I quoted part of above.

[ Edited by amigadave 30.03.2019 - 12:56 ]
MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
»30.03.19 - 21:52

Andreas_Wolf

# 21
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12074 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> Where did I wrote that I've boot from a SCSI Card with PPC-OF-ROM??
> I've never seen such a card.... What I've said is this in Post #11: [...]

I took your comment #11 as a reply to my comment #10, like I took your comment #9 as a reply to my comment #8. Both those my comments were about nothing else than the (in)ability of the Pegasos to boot from cards with OF/PPC ROM, hence my interpretation of your comments ("it will boot - and more perfect than you expect!", "Only on Pegasos - yes") in that very context.
»30.03.19 - 23:45

Amigaharry2

# 22
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6

From: EU-Austria (Wien)

Ok, thats a misunderstanding. Sorry for that - was not a intention of mine....
Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
»31.03.19 - 19:34

sailor

# 23
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 358 from 2019/5/9

From: Central Bohemi...

Quote:

Kronos wrote:
Quote:

Goodman wrote:
Why is the first PCI slot a little bigger?

Allows for a riser to be plugged in to mount cards parallel to the mobo. (carries the signal that aren't shared between the PCI-slots).

Not sure wether such an riser was ever made or if it follows a standard of some sort.

Several years before I communicate with Thomas Knabel from bplan about riser card, and if I remember, you can use any standartd PCI ATX riser card.

But it have only sense if you have desktop case or other problem with space. Using the riser card in first PCI slot makes other two PCI slots unusable.
AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
»09.05.19 - 17:44

Kronos

# 24
Moderator

Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24

Quote:

sailor wrote:
Using the riser card in first PCI slot makes other two PCI slots unusable.

As it should do cos those slots are now on riser. Putting 2 cards in what is the "same" slot sounds like a lot of fun.
»09.05.19 - 19:09

sailor

# 25
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 358 from 2019/5/9

From: Central Bohemi...

Quote:

Kronos wrote:
As it should do cos those slots are now on riser. Putting 2 cards in what is the "same" slot sounds like a lot of fun.

Not exactly. In theory you can use flex riser to share 1 slot between two devices.
It only means that Pegasos have standard riser, not flex.
AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
»09.05.19 - 19:37