MorphOS x64
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    stephen_robinson
    Posts: 742 from 2007/4/22
    And people say MorphOS isn't a modern OS!
  • »29.01.18 - 12:42
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 825 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    It's another proof that we have the best programmers, and with this killer-app we're a clear leader in the whole Amiga world. :LOL:

    P.S. I can't wait to try this application on my MorphOS computer.
  • »29.01.18 - 12:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    >> Will MorphOS also be Spectre and Meltdown compatible? ;-)

    > It's already Spectre-compatible on PowerPC / Power Architecture ;-)

    Regarding Meltdown:

    When IBM revealed some weeks ago that POWER7(+), POWER8(+) and POWER9 (pre-current steppings) were vulnerable to Meltdown, they failed to give any information on pre-POWER7 processors. 3 days ago this follow-up was published:

    "IBM will not be releasing patches for POWER4, POWER5, POWER6 systems and recommends migrating to a more current generation of POWER technology. [...] on February 6, we will introduce an offer for pre-POWER7 clients to upgrade their security profile and protect against Spectre and Meltdown through the purchase of POWER8 or POWER9 systems and available migration services, security support, and financing offers."
    https://www.ibm.com/blogs/psirt/potential-impact-processors-power-family/

    Does this mean POWER4 might be vulnerable to Meltdown? And if so, this would mean the POWER4-derived G5/PPC970 is most likely vulnerable as well, right?
  • »03.02.18 - 12:49
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 348 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    As the Spectre fix also requires a CPU microcode update, then any board requires a BIOS update. A software fix on its own isn't enough.

    Even if by some miracle you could get MC to release microcode updates for PPC, you can't deploy them. Is the MorphOS team in the habit of updating OF and UBoot firmwares?
  • »04.02.18 - 17:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Even if by some miracle you could get MC to release microcode updates for PPC

    Who is MC?

    > Is the MorphOS team in the habit of updating OF and UBoot firmwares?

    I don‘t think anybody believes it is.
  • »04.02.18 - 20:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 348 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Who is MC?


    Motorola and/or IBM, depending on chip. I tend to just refer to MC, just saves too much pointless wordage.
  • »04.02.18 - 23:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Who is MC?

    > Motorola and/or IBM, depending on chip.

    Motorola won‘t provide any microcode updates for PPC, that‘s for sure ;-) I’ve never seen "MC" used with that meaning. Is this an actual abbreviation of something in this context, or just some random letters?

    > I tend to just refer to MC, just saves too much pointless wordage.

    Yes, obviously ;-)
  • »05.02.18 - 06:13
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 348 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Motorola won‘t provide any microcode updates for PPC, that‘s for sure ;-) I’ve never seen „MC“ used with that meaning. Is this an actual abbreviation of something in this context, or just some random letters?


    As far as I know it comes from the MC prefix of some of their earliest consumer chips, i.e. the MC6800 and MC68000. My use of it was by no means an industry standard, just something informal I thought was common in Amiga circles in decades past. I'm sorry to disappoint with a mundane explanation but it probably just stood for 'Motorola Chip'. I can't be bothered following the progress of any relationship between old Motorola and new, and their collaboration with IBM and so on or who would be responsible for what. Nobody's going to update the chips in any case.

    ...and so the wordage was not avoided

    Edit: the term in use http://tinyurl.com/y79eh3jz

    [ Edited by KennyR 05.02.2018 - 23:41 ]
  • »06.02.18 - 00:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>> Who is MC?

    >>> Motorola and/or IBM

    >> I’ve never seen "MC" used with that meaning.

    > As far as I know it comes from the MC prefix of some of their earliest consumer chips [...],
    > just something informal I thought was common in Amiga circles in decades past.

    As said, I‘ve never seen it formally or informally used that way. What I’ve seen for Motorola (and probably used myself) is the short form "Moto". I‘m not aware of any formal or informal abbreviation describing "Motorola and/or IBM". There is "AIM", describing a 1990s alliance between Apple, IBM and Motorola.

    > I can't be bothered following the progress of any relationship between old Motorola and new

    The evolution of the chip company has been as follows (with announced/intended steps in brackets):
    Motorola SPS -> Freescale -> NXP (-> Qualcomm -> Broadcom)

    The remaining non-SPS Motorola split in 2011 into Motorola Mobility and Motorola Solutions, which exist to this date.

    > the term in use http://tinyurl.com/y79eh3jz

    I don‘t see where "MC" is used as short form for the company Motorola (let alone "Motorola and/or IBM"). The "MC" in those few hits is the part number prefix and is used to tell fully qualified chips (MC...) from less qualified chips (XC...).
  • »06.02.18 - 17:02
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Even if our hardware is vulnerable, who is going to target our small community?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.08.18 - 01:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Even if our hardware is vulnerable, who is going to target our small community?

    From a technical viewpoint, Spectre is irrelevant for MorphOS anyway (see comments #8, #9 and #10).
  • »20.08.18 - 10:46
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Even if our hardware is vulnerable, who is going to target our small community?

    From a technical viewpoint, Spectre is irrelevant for MorphOS anyway (see comments #8, #9 and #10).


    And the last paragraph of comment #2...
    Yes, I get your point.

    I guess my next question would be will an X64 fork (with whatever changes that brings) present any issues?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.08.18 - 11:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > will an X64 fork (with whatever changes that brings) present any issues?

    Depends on the changes, I'd say. For current MorphOS ported to x64 as is, there'd be no difference to current MorphOS on Power Architecture. A MorphOS/x64 with memory protection and SMP on the other hand would require mitigations against Spectre, Meltdown and Foreshadow to not be vulnerable to those exploits.
  • »20.08.18 - 14:11
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > will an X64 fork (with whatever changes that brings) present any issues?

    Depends on the changes, I'd say. For current MorphOS ported to x64 as is, there'd be no difference to current MorphOS on Power Architecture. A MorphOS/x64 with memory protection and SMP on the other hand would require mitigations against Spectre, Meltdown and Foreshadow to not be vulnerable to those exploits.


    Thanks, that is what I thought. Introduce memory protection, and then the exploits that defeat it become a problem.

    Well, we can only hope that hardware/cpu vendors work on this while we are in transition.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.08.18 - 15:06
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