Andreas_Wolf wrote:
>> SMP support [...] isn't supposed to happen until the X64 transition

> please explain the dependency.

geit explained it 4½ years ago:
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9204&forum=11&start=14

amigadave wrote:
Since lack of software for the new x64 version of MorphOS is a big concern for all users, and the Dev. Team as well, is it reasonable to ask the Dev. Team if it would be possible to create one or more of the following things, which would help solve the lack of native software problem?

1. if possible, create a "Trance" like translation layer, which allows MorphOS for x64 to run all, or most Linux x64 software, without any alteration.

2. if #1 is not feasible, or desirable, create development tools that make porting x64 Linux software to the new MorphOS for x64 easy and quick.

amigadave schrieb:
Quote:

Good explanation by geit.

Since lack of software for the new x64 version of MorphOS is a big concern for all users, and the Dev. Team as well, is it reasonable to ask the Dev. Team if it would be possible to create one or more of the following things, which would help solve the lack of native software problem?

1. if possible, create a "Trance" like translation layer, which allows MorphOS for x64 to run all, or most Linux x64 software, without any alteration.

2. if #1 is not feasible, or desirable, create development tools that make porting x64 Linux software to the new MorphOS for x64 easy and quick.

3. if neither #1, or #2 are feasible, or desirable, create MorphOS for x64 so that it can be run hosted, hiding the underlying Linux, or Windows host OS, but allowing host OS software to be run transparently from the Ambient desktop of MorphOS for x64, similar to how AEROS, AmiKit emulation and/or the A.L.I.C.E. laptop work, with the "Rabbit Hole".

Which ever direction the MorphOS Dev. Team decides to go, I hope that they will collaborate with many third party programmers during the creation of MorphOS for x64, so that we will have dozens of quality software applications and a few games, which are ready to run on the new MorphOS for x64, at the time it is first released.

Edit: (removed double negative)

[ Edited by amigadave 26.11.2017 - 15:06 ]

polluks wrote:
Maybe there's enough manpower for the ISA and 64 bit changes.
But there's already not enough manpower for a dual monitor driver for PB.
Sorry, I cannot believe these promises.

jacadcaps wrote:
Quote:

Don't call speculations of users "promises".

Jim wrote:
I don't expect the first X64 releases to contain all these advanced features that everyone keeps mentioning.

Initially I'd expect the ISA change to just jetison the legacy limitations like 31 bitmemory addressing.

Like all previous versions, we can probably anticipate gradual evolution, not abrupt change.

Zylesea wrote:
The Lack of Software is not that big issue as it may seem. Most important applications that Draw a lot of cpu Powerand hence, need to be run natively, are the browser, Video Player and other Media (high res Pics, pdfs), the usual programs for that Task are still supported and mostly done by Team members anyway. I have no doubt these will find their way quickly to MorphOS x64. Legacy 68k applications will run in uae. Sure, someone has to Port uae, but I don't think this will not come quickly as well. As a Bonus on x64 we will benefit from the highly optimized 68k jit. And nothing's going to stop us to include the ppc Emulation thee, too. Just like on winuae. And once MorphOS ppc is not the current dev branch, MorphOS Team could consider to provide a MorphOS Version for the uae ppc Emulator (and if they don't want to free it generally they may find a way to exclusively bind it to MorphOS x64-uae). Emulation is not the best of all Options but very handy to fill the void i the aftermath fro. The Isa Switch. X64 has the Raw Power to do Emulation conveniently enough.

[ Editiert durch Zylesea 27.11.2017 - 11:18 ]

amigadave wrote:
[
The work that is currently being done on AmigaOS4.1FE video card drivers, funded by A-Eon, is very interesting, as a way to increase available memory footprint, by allowing the VRAM to be leveraged differently than has previously been used in Amiga-Like NG systems. Perhaps doing something similar with new video card drivers for MorphOS, could improve our web browsing experience, by lessening, or eliminating, low memory situations that can sometimes happen while web browsing, with multiple tabs open, on certain websites.

amigadave schrieb:
Quote:

You might be right, given the very limited programming resources (free time and number of developers on the team), the first public release of MorphOS for x64, might only have a couple advanced features, and almost zero software to run, if the Dev. Team does not provide beta versions to interested third party programmers, so they can port their software to the new architecture, API, ABI, and OS.

Personally, I think that approach would be a mistake, and lessen the chances for MorphOS for x64 to become as successful, or more successful, as the current PPC version of MorphOS. I believe geit's post mentioned that the switch to x64 hardware would further fracture the community. I believe that if the switch is not done right, the move could possibly be the beginning of the end, instead of a chance to get things right, and gain thousands of new users, possibly even moving MorphOS into the "mainstream", to compete head to head with Linux distro's.

Granted, the chances that MorphOS for x64 will be that huge of a success are very small, and perhaps the Dev. Team does not even want that much growth and success, I don't know. I do believe that there is a void in the desktop and conventional laptop computing world, that could possibly be filled with something new (like MorphOS for x64), if that something new were created the right way, to solve all, or most of the current short comings found in all Linux and Unix distro's.

I doubt that the MorphOS Dev. Team is ambitious enough to attempt to create a new OS that surpasses all current Linux and Unix distro's, but they might get lucky and do things right without even knowing all the advantages built into what they have created, until many months, or even years after it is first released, if they will only strive for perfection during the creation process, and not settle for too many compromises.

Regarding WINE, I think it would be something desirable to have eventually, but running Windows software on MorphOS for x64 should not be a concern of the MorphOS Dev. Team, during the creation process. In my mind, I foresee MorphOS for x64 to be more like an improved Linux or Unix distro, and not a copy of Windows or MacOSX. I'm hoping for something more than a port of our existing MorphOS for PPC, with only the elimination of the design decisions which held it back, to make it compatible with the Amiga 68k API and software library.

Perhaps the Dev. Team should ask the MorphOS community for feedback, on what new features are most important to the community, before going too far down a path that does not satisfy most of the user base?

I doubt they will ask for such feedback though, and I also doubt that they will announce a feature list of what will be included in MorphOS for x64, before it is ready to be released, or at least until before it is ready to show beta versions of it at some computer shows in the future.

Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
>>> a "Trance" like translation layer, which allows MorphOS for x64 to run [...] Linux x64 software

>> This wouldn‘t be like Trance at all, but like WINE. Trance translates the ISA and retains the API,
>> while a layer that allows MorphOS to run Linux software would translate the API and retain the ISA.

> Regarding WINE, I think [...] running Windows software on MorphOS for x64 should not be a
> concern of the MorphOS Dev. Team, during the creation process.

I wasn‘t suggesting using WINE to run Windows software on MorphOS/x64 (which wouldn‘t work anyway as WINE translates to Linux/Unix API specifically), but that your suggestion of a „translation layer, which allows MorphOS for x64 to run [...] Linux x64 software“ would require something *like* WINE (as opposed to something like Trance).

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> I wrote it as confirmation not in opposition to you

You didn't confirm anything I wrote because I simply didn't write what you seem to think I wrote. Again for anybody with reading comprehension difficulties: I did not write about using WINE on or porting WINE to a future MorphOS/x64. I was merely mentioning WINE as an example to illustrate what type of software would be needed to run Linux/x64 software on a future MorphOS/x64.

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> 1000 boards, sitting on shelves since 2015.

"At the AmigaTec BBQ party in the summer of 2016, Amitopia spoke to MorphOS Team members and Frank said that [...] A1222 Tabor hardware will never go into production."
https://amitopia.com/a-eon-hyperion-entertainment-and-morphos-team-is-halting-the-nextgen-amiga-future/

Interesting

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
>>>> 1000 boards, sitting on shelves since 2015.

>>> "At the AmigaTec BBQ party in the summer of 2016, Amitopia spoke to MorphOS Team
>>> members and Frank said that [...] A1222 Tabor hardware will never go into production."
>>> https://amitopia.com/a-eon-hyperion-entertainment-and-morphos-team-is-halting-the-nextgen-amiga-future/

>> Interesting

> Surely "A1222 Tabor hardware will never go into production" would be more a deciding factor
> regarding support than "because of the PowerPC cpu that is a very odd one (without FPU etc". No?

Support? CPU? FPU? I was merely wondering how „1000 boards, sitting on shelves since 2015“ have allegedly never existed come summer 2016.