Pegasos/MorphOS graphic boards compatibility list!!!!
  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >I'm afraid it is.

    Not really.

    >Not for PPC Macs.

    It is certainly possible to create a video card driver that does not rely on an onboard bios or OpenFirmware roms.

    We did this in the '80's with Peter Stark's PT68K2 (which used a 68K processor and an ISA bus) when we wrote drivers for ISA ET-4000 video cards that completely ignored the bios roms.

    Detection is the toughest part of this equation, and addressing variations that can be covered via bios calls have to be dealt with via software, but as we did this almost three decades ago it certainly CAN be done now.

    [ Edited by Jim 04.03.2014 - 21:34 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.03.14 - 22:23
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  • vox
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    vox
    Posts: 428 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    ?

    > No, but it can obviously work with Intel based ROM

    AN>No, a graphics card with Intel-based ROM can not work in a PPC Mac. I wonder how AN>many times this must be repeated until you grasp it.

    Sad sad limitation as it can work on other PPC board. Now I am glad I dont own
    PPC mac since I would be limited to Apples crazy pricing.

    > like my cards in SAM460ex and X1000.

    U-Boot of the Sam460 and CFE of the X1000 include a rudimentary x86 emulator. That's why they work with graphics cards with non-PPC ROM.

    Good. So those standards are not that bad.

    > Surely Apple machines are a bit more kinky.

    The PPC Mac OpenFirmware lacks an x86 emulator. Not sure whether that's to be called "kinky".

    Everything about apple seems to be kinky.


    > That is reality I do live each day I turn X1000.

    I don't doubt your problem with your X1000 (btw, I thought you gave it away to get the Sam460?), but opposed to what you claim it is not caused by the lack of a PPC ROM in your Radeon HD6870.

    Its on my desk for PPC Linux customization for DJ Nick. OpenGL, new kernel, he wants KDE ... we do live in same city.

    > Hope that is not obstacle that cannot be overcomed

    I'm afraid it is.

    I am sad.

    > or we (team) could bake their own reflash :-)

    Nice joke :-)

    That would be old school way.

    > RadeonHD is way sooner or later

    Not for PPC Macs.


    Thanks for making it clear. Now list of cards I can surely
    get for SAM460ex esp. low profile and I am good to go MOS.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »13.03.14 - 10:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10448 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I am glad I dont own PPC mac since I would be limited to Apples crazy pricing.

    The pricing of graphics cards with PPC ROM may be crazy, but not necessarily Apple's. There are numerous 3rd party graphics cards intended for upgrading the stock cards the PPC Macs came with.

    >>> or we (team) could bake their own reflash :-)

    >> Nice joke :-)

    > That would be old school way.

    And unrealistic nonetheless.
  • »13.03.14 - 20:23
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  • vox
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    vox
    Posts: 428 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I am glad I dont own PPC mac since I would be limited to Apples crazy pricing.

    The pricing of graphics cards with PPC ROM may be crazy, but not necessarily Apple's. There are numerous 3rd party graphics cards intended for upgrading the stock cards the PPC Macs came with.


    Good - maybe you could list those cards and availiablity now as help to MOS PPC Mac users, a growing crowd. Apple prices I have seen are just sick, AEON looks good to it.

    >>> or we (team) could bake their own reflash :-)

    >> Nice joke :-)

    > That would be old school way.

    Quote:

    And unrealistic nonetheless.


    Why, every EPROM can be reflashed?

    Anyway, list of cards tested on SAM460ex that support MOS, I am still waiting for it and I believe I havent missed it in other threads. General answers are no no, I have to know what exactly to get if my Radeon 4000HD is no go. And I am especially interested in Low profile models since in the end board will go to Daddys X500.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »13.03.14 - 22:20
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2576 from 2003/2/24
    Never buy HW based on *hopes* of MorphOS support, that has allways been the general recommendation, and you should (really) take this advice seriously. Sure, MorphOS with Sam460 support was announced/demoed, but until it gets here (*if* it actually gets here in the end) you will not know what will be supported and what will not. If it indeed gets here, then everything will become clear. Not until then. In the mean rime, things may change, so details won't be discussed (they never are), and everything will be pure specularions. You will know. In time. Be patient...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »13.03.14 - 22:46
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10448 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > maybe you could list those cards and availiablity now as help to MOS PPC Mac users

    List already given to you:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=9587&start=39
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=9888&start=24

    As for availability, search on sites like eBay.

    > Apple prices I have seen are just sick

    Again: prices are high for non-Apple graphics cards with PPC ROM as well.

    >>>>> or we (team) could bake their own reflash :-)

    >>>> Nice joke :-)

    >>> That would be old school way.

    >> And unrealistic nonetheless.

    > Why, every EPROM can be reflashed?

    You will have to develop the software (= the hard part to do) before you can flash it.
  • »13.03.14 - 23:24
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  • Visitor
  • Thanks for your list of links.
  • »18.01.15 - 05:56
  • vox
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    vox
    Posts: 428 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Never buy HW based on *hopes* of MorphOS support, that has allways been the general recommendation, and you should (really) take this advice seriously. Sure, MorphOS with Sam460 support was announced/demoed, but until it gets here (*if* it actually gets here in the end) you will not know what will be supported and what will not. If it indeed gets here, then everything will become clear. Not until then. In the mean rime, things may change, so details won't be discussed (they never are), and everything will be pure specularions. You will know. In time. Be patient...


    To be honest Radeon 4000HD was card offered by Acube with SAM460ex.

    But Radeon X1300 is cheap and available, so I will replace it.

    Since there are AGP and PCI-E versions, many MorphOS users might upgrade, if 3D gets supported. Once it gets to mature phase, please post which cards are 100% working.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »05.04.15 - 14:48
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10448 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Radeon X1300 is cheap and available [...]. Since there are AGP and PCI-E versions,
    > many MorphOS users might upgrade

    I doubt there is a PPC ROM for the X1300.
  • »05.04.15 - 16:51
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    diezi7
    Posts: 167 from 2005/7/26
    From: Madrid
    Which software requires nowadays such powefull GPUs?
    Awake me...
    PowerMac G4 MDD 1,25 dual (Registered)
    Pegasos II G4 (not working)
    Powerbook G4 1.0 15"
    -=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=
    http://amigalandia.blogspot.com.es/
  • »05.04.15 - 17:22
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 4 from 2015/9/11
    the list needs to be expanded to include system name (ie: power mac g5 & model 7,2, 7,3), video card connection type AGP (2x,4x,8x, pro) or PCI-e, gpu name radeon 9800 sub series xt etc,
    memory installed- 64, 128, 256mb etc.


    btw I tried my oem nvidia 5200, a radeon 9200 se, a ati all-in wonder 8500, and finally an ati 9800 xt mac edition


    guess which one actually worked? guess which ones never booted morphos?


    personally, I need to find out what card to buy for a power mac g5 agp, the mac edition of the 9800xt works but the card is defective- horiz blue-cyan lines tested in both morphos and osx 10.5.8

    would like to find out if a agp based x1950 pro will work or what is the better choice x800 or x850?
  • »12.09.15 - 22:03
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 4 from 2015/9/11
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    ?

    > No, but it can obviously work with Intel based ROM

    AN>No, a graphics card with Intel-based ROM can not work in a PPC Mac. I wonder how AN>many times this must be repeated until you grasp it.

    Sad sad limitation as it can work on other PPC board. Now I am glad I dont own
    PPC mac since I would be limited to Apples crazy pricing.

    > like my cards in SAM460ex and X1000.

    U-Boot of the Sam460 and CFE of the X1000 include a rudimentary x86 emulator. That's why they work with graphics cards with non-PPC ROM.

    Good. So those standards are not that bad.

    > Surely Apple machines are a bit more kinky.

    The PPC Mac OpenFirmware lacks an x86 emulator. Not sure whether that's to be called "kinky".

    Everything about apple seems to be kinky.


    > That is reality I do live each day I turn X1000.

    I don't doubt your problem with your X1000 (btw, I thought you gave it away to get the Sam460?), but opposed to what you claim it is not caused by the lack of a PPC ROM in your Radeon HD6870.

    Its on my desk for PPC Linux customization for DJ Nick. OpenGL, new kernel, he wants KDE ... we do live in same city.

    > Hope that is not obstacle that cannot be overcomed

    I'm afraid it is.

    I am sad.

    > or we (team) could bake their own reflash :-)

    Nice joke :-)

    That would be old school way.

    > RadeonHD is way sooner or later

    Not for PPC Macs.


    Thanks for making it clear. Now list of cards I can surely
    get for SAM460ex esp. low profile and I am good to go MOS.





    crazy pricing? how about $75 usd for a power mac g5 with dual 2 ghz procs and 2 gb memory versus several hundred to 1 or 2 thousand (usd) for a sam or ? board or bare system?
  • »12.09.15 - 22:08
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  • HAK
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    Posts: 221 from 2003/2/24
    From: Austria, Vienna
    Hi,

    Quote:

    todd wrote:
    personally, I need to find out what card to buy for a power mac g5 agp, the mac edition of the 9800xt works but the card is defective- horiz blue-cyan lines tested in both morphos and osx 10.5.8

    would like to find out if a agp based x1950 pro will work or what is the better choice x800 or x850?



    I got a X1950 running in my G5, but it is way slower than the 9600Pro (Mac & PC Edition) which I still use.
    Furthermore it had some gfx errors in e.g. RTCW (tree leafes in open areas).

    It also might have problems booting in combination with other cards - here e.g the G5 wouldn't start when I had a HVR1110 tv card installed too.

    So, ATM I think you're better off with a X800/X850.


    Bye HAK
  • »12.09.15 - 23:46
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10448 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I tried my oem nvidia 5200 [...]
    > guess which ones never booted morphos?

    This :-)
  • »13.09.15 - 00:54
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10448 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> I am glad I dont own PPC mac since I would be limited to Apples crazy pricing.

    > crazy pricing? how about $75 usd for a power mac g5 with dual 2 ghz procs and 2 gb memory
    > versus several hundred to 1 or 2 thousand (usd) for a sam or ? board or bare system?

    He was talking about graphics cards with PPC ROM.
  • »13.09.15 - 01:00
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  • Caterpillar
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    marmotta
    Posts: 27 from 2012/6/11
    OT: I need help, no one have the ppc rom for x1900/x1950 pcie to share? I have spent lot of time to search it, but all sites are down...

    [ Edited by marmotta 02.03.2016 - 10:03 ]
  • »02.03.16 - 09:02
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    marmotta wrote:
    OT: I need help, no one have the ppc rom for x1900/x1950 pcie to share? I have spent lot of time to search it, but all sites are down...


    The only Apple PPC rom for the X1900 is for the X1900GT.
    The isn't one for the X1950Pro, or X1900XT/X1950XT.

    But you don't need one to run MorphOS, just OSX.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.05.17 - 21:10
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    AyoS
    Posts: 410 from 2003/8/13
    From: West Palm Beac...
    With the Favourable realease of Morphos 3.10 What new group of Radeon AGP Cards should I consider that both support 2d Overlay and 3d? 3D isn't the most important at the moment, just wondering if there would be any reason to upgrade from my 9000 series card?
  • »01.04.18 - 15:49
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10448 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > With the Favourable realease of Morphos 3.10 What new group of
    > Radeon AGP Cards should I consider [...]?

    MorphOS 3.10 did not change anything in terms of graphics cards usable with the Pegasos II, and no future version of MorphOS (or any other OS) ever will, as the limitation to Radeon R300 series GPUs (i.e. Radeon 9800 cards) or lower is caused by the Pegasos II's hardware (AGP 1.0, 3.3 V) and firmware (unability to see any GPUs behind bridge chips).
  • »01.04.18 - 17:40
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    AyoS
    Posts: 410 from 2003/8/13
    From: West Palm Beac...
    Thanks, Then I can stick with what I have,,, so the AGP Power Mac's don't share that limitation? Is that correct?
  • »01.04.18 - 21:12
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1134 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    MorphOS 3.10 did not change anything in terms of graphics cards usable with the Pegasos II, and no future version of MorphOS (or any other OS) ever will, as the limitation to Radeon R300 series GPUs (i.e. Radeon 9800 cards) or lower is caused by the Pegasos II's hardware (AGP 1.0, 3.3 V) and firmware (unability to see any GPUs behind bridge chips).

    Actually, there are PCI versions of HD4350-based graphics cards. Whether those represent an upgrade compared to R300 cards depends on the use case.

    Similar to the Mac Mini, a lot of older AGP cards only feature single link DVI connectors so you are limited to 1920x1200. A HD4350 card would improve on that and enable to (fully) use 2560x1440 monitors, for instance.
  • »01.04.18 - 21:33
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    AyoS
    Posts: 410 from 2003/8/13
    From: West Palm Beac...
    Thanks again!!! I have a Power Mac G5 with a 9600 that I haven't converted to Morphos yet, and a PegII with a 9000 pro, I might upgrade my PegII and was just wondering what the best options are in 2018
  • »01.04.18 - 22:36
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
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    Yes, and for the Peg you must be sure to get a 9800 that universally keyed (so that it will work in the 3.3v AGP slot the Peg uses).
    The card edge of a universally keyed R300 is dived up into three sections with two slots separating the middle section.
    A 4/8X R300 has only two sections with one seperation, and usually these will not work at the voltage provided by the Peg.
    This can get a little weird in that some later 9800s are based on older board designs, but use the last revision of the gpu (R360 I think, if I'm wrong Andreas will correct me).
    So, while it would seem to be impossible to use a Radeon 9800XT in a Peg (as they are 4/8X cards), some of the cards that are universally keyed and are labeled as 9800Pro cards actually carry a 9800XT gpu (and will probably overclock).
    It probably wouldn't be too hard to modify on Peg for a lower AGP slot voltage, but since the firmware won't recognize later cards, there wouldn't be any point in it.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »01.04.18 - 23:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10448 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the AGP Power Mac's don't share that limitation? Is that correct?

    To my knowledge, no PowerMac shares the mentioned firmware limitation. With the mentioned hardware limitation, it depends. PowerMac G4 up to the Gigabit Ethernet (PowerMac3,3) model share it, while PowerMac G4 starting with the Digital Audio (PowerMac3,4) model and PowerMac G5 do not (they offer AGP 2.0, 1.5 V).
  • »02.04.18 - 01:49
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