MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11571 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > there are limited number of SAM460 and X5000 users that can benefit
    > from R600 (and up) PCIe right now. Mostly OS4 users.

    It's certainly a dubious benefit for them if they have to go back to 2D-only support under OS4.

    > The only real value in having GCN support is those are the cards that
    > are usually supplied with X5000 systems and the low end cards have now
    > transitioned to these gpus.

    Availability can be a factor as well. The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014, while last cards with GCN1 GPUs are R5/R7 430...450 from 2016.
  • »19.04.18 - 15:37
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1169 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Spinning of Radeon drivers for later model cards as separate development could be an option.
    Thus not being tied to the main MorphOS release cycle.



    And who would spin that?
  • »19.04.18 - 16:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 257 from 2015/6/30
    Wonder how many X5000 MorphOS full time or part time users exist ?
    Poll time ?
  • »19.04.18 - 18:00
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > there are limited number of SAM460 and X5000 users that can benefit
    > from R600 (and up) PCIe right now. Mostly OS4 users.

    It's certainly a dubious benefit for them if they have to go back to 2D-only support under OS4.

    > The only real value in having GCN support is those are the cards that
    > are usually supplied with X5000 systems and the low end cards have now
    > transitioned to these gpus.

    Availability can be a factor as well. The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014, while last cards with GCN1 GPUs are R5/R7 430...450 from 2016.


    I can still find plenty of those here, 6450's, 8490's, R5's, R7's, BUT I don't really want to use them.
    From a practical standpoint an HD7650 would do much better (or an HD6670 or HD6750).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.04.18 - 18:39
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > there are limited number of SAM460 and X5000 users that can benefit
    > from R600 (and up) PCIe right now. Mostly OS4 users.

    It's certainly a dubious benefit for them if they have to go back to 2D-only support under OS4.

    > The only real value in having GCN support is those are the cards that
    > are usually supplied with X5000 systems and the low end cards have now
    > transitioned to these gpus.

    Availability can be a factor as well. The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014, while last cards with GCN1 GPUs are R5/R7 430...450 from 2016.


    I can still find plenty of those here, 6450's, 8490's, R5's, R7's, BUT I don't really want to use them.
    From a practical standpoint an HD7650 would do much better (or an HD6670 or HD6750).


    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Wonder how many X5000 MorphOS full time or part time users exist ?
    Poll time ?



    Outside of Wiktor Glowacki (Pampers) and Acil, I only know of two other MorphOS users that have them (and one of those is Bigfoot).

    I initially intended to buy one, but since I have three other MorphOS systems I can afford to wait to see if the X5000/40 makes it to market.

    If not, I'll try to snag one through Aaron before the X5000/20 disappears.

    And a new driver interfaces? Mark and I discussed an improved OpenGL implementation or something like the Vulkan API, but he thinks he'd needs the help of someone like Michał Wozniak's for something that demanding.
    And he didn't seem too impressed with OpenGL ES, but there are a few alternatives.

    In any case, at some point a better way to address the Radeon cards is needed. We don't have support for multiple displays or the simultaneous use of more than one Radeon card.

    GCN might be a good point to draw a line.

    [ Edited by Jim 19.04.2018 - 13:55 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.04.18 - 18:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11571 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014

    > I can still find plenty of those here, 6450's, 8490's, R5's, R7's

    TeraScale2-based R7? Is there any?
  • »19.04.18 - 20:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11571 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> how many X5000 MorphOS [...] users exist ?

    > Wiktor Glowacki (Pampers)

    I don‘t think he has really used MorphOS on the X5000 for the last year (or on any other machine for that matter).
  • »19.04.18 - 20:55
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  • esc
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 150 from 2013/5/28
    The day I can use MorphOS on my X5000 with the Radeon 7750 is the day I purchase a license.

    Why would I get a specific GPU to run MorphOS? That would severely limit what I can do in OS4, which is really the primary reason people buy X5000s. I mean, to put it another way, and again I'm not trying to be flippant here, but I'd be much more inclined to leave my X5000 as is and purchase a mac mini g4 for MorphOS. People aren't going to sacrifice OS4 optimized configuration to run MorphOS, which is a sad truth, but it is a truth.
  • »20.04.18 - 06:51
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    esc wrote:
    The day I can use MorphOS on my X5000 with the Radeon 7750 is the day I purchase a license.

    Why would I get a specific GPU to run MorphOS? That would severely limit what I can do in OS4, which is really the primary reason people buy X5000s. I mean, to put it another way, and again I'm not trying to be flippant here, but I'd be much more inclined to leave my X5000 as is and purchase a mac mini g4 for MorphOS. People aren't going to sacrifice OS4 optimized configuration to run MorphOS, which is a sad truth, but it is a truth.


    I don't take your comment as flippant.
    I haven't purchased an X5000 because I can't justify it without enhanced support from MorphOS, myself.

    And Andreas, yes, some R series cards are Terascale, not most.
    But splitting hairs with you gets boring.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.04.18 - 15:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11571 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I haven't purchased an X5000 because I can't justify it without
    > enhanced support from MorphOS, myself.

    What are you missing from MorphOS support for the X5000?

    >>>> The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014

    >>> I can still find plenty of those here, 6450's, 8490's, R5's, R7's

    >> TeraScale2-based R7? Is there any?

    > yes, some R series cards are Terascale

    I take this as a 'no' to my question whether there are any TeraScale2-based R7 cards. About TeraScale2-based R5 cards I wrote myself numerous times to you. You even quoted it in your comments #794 and #795.
  • »20.04.18 - 19:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    esc wrote:
    The day I can use MorphOS on my X5000 with the Radeon 7750 is the day I purchase a license.

    Why would I get a specific GPU to run MorphOS? That would severely limit what I can do in OS4, which is really the primary reason people buy X5000s. I mean, to put it another way, and again I'm not trying to be flippant here, but I'd be much more inclined to leave my X5000 as is and purchase a mac mini g4 for MorphOS. People aren't going to sacrifice OS4 optimized configuration to run MorphOS, which is a sad truth, but it is a truth.


    I don't take your comment as flippant.
    I haven't purchased an X5000 because I can't justify it without enhanced support from MorphOS, myself.


    I also don't take his comment as flippant, but I don't think it is 100% accurate either. Not every X5000 buyer is interested in running AmigaOS4.x as their primary reason for the purchase. There might be "some" MorphOS users who want new hardware, plus the ability to occasionally run AmigaOS4.x, out of curiosity, just to see how it performs and compares to their preferred operating system, "MorphOS". Sure, the number of MorphOS users who have bought, or will buy an X5000/020, or X5000/040, if/when the 4 core X5000 becomes available, are very small, but not all buyers are, or will be interested in primarily running AmigaOS4.x, instead of MorphOS. I do agree that most X5000 buyers will be AmigaOS4.x users, by a large margin.

    Quote:

    And Andreas, yes, some R series cards are Terascale, not most.
    But splitting hairs with you gets boring.


    But splitting hairs is what Andreas does best! ;-)

    [ Edited by amigadave 20.04.2018 - 19:02 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »21.04.18 - 03:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11571 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > splitting hairs

    My interest to learn about TeraScale2-based R7 cards is genuine.
  • »21.04.18 - 07:46
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > splitting hairs

    My interest to learn about TeraScale2-based R7 cards is genuine.


    Funny. ;-)

    By now you ought to be used to AMD/ATI throwing about names and relabeling older hardware with newer nomenclature. R5/R7...ah, whatever. No, there are no Terascale R7s. But there are Terascale R5s, while at the same time, there are GCN gpus that span R5 and R7 designations.

    Its all so much BS.

    Which is why I keep a copy of the AMD gpu family info from Wikipedia bookmarked.

    That way when someone says "Caicos", I know they mean something that spans from HD64XX to R5.

    And on that note, AMD felt comfortable enough with that gpu to let it span four revisions of its lineup, only replacing it at R5 3XX.

    And THAT is why, when Mark said (quite awhile ago),"...about the only thing I need right now is Oland", I should have gotten on that quicker.

    It HAS been in his sights, so...again..my bad.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »21.04.18 - 14:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    ...... THAT is why, when Mark said (quite awhile ago),"...about the only thing I need right now is Oland", I should have gotten on that quicker.

    It HAS been in his sights, so...again..my bad.


    Don't beat yourself up about that, and I meant to request earlier that you either A. Post a list of video cards that Mark & Frank still need sent to them, to further video card driver development, or B. set up a web page of your own with a donate button, so the rest of us can send you money to purchase and ship the video cards that Mark & Frank need.

    You have done a great job of sourcing video cards for Mark and Frank for a long time, and I think it is high time for you to allow some of the rest of us to help, even if it is just with the cost of obtaining and shipping the cards, by sending you some money via PayPal, or some other money transfer service you prefer.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »21.04.18 - 20:24
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    ...... THAT is why, when Mark said (quite awhile ago),"...about the only thing I need right now is Oland", I should have gotten on that quicker.

    It HAS been in his sights, so...again..my bad.


    Don't beat yourself up about that, and I meant to request earlier that you either A. Post a list of video cards that Mark & Frank still need sent to them, to further video card driver development, or B. set up a web page of your own with a donate button, so the rest of us can send you money to purchase and ship the video cards that Mark & Frank need.

    You have done a great job of sourcing video cards for Mark and Frank for a long time, and I think it is high time for you to allow some of the rest of us to help, even if it is just with the cost of obtaining and shipping the cards, by sending you some money via PayPal, or some other money transfer service you prefer.


    Thanks David, but the cost and avaibility here (even in Europe) is much better than in South Africa.
    And it's been educational so far.
    Also, Frank usually buys better cards for himself, and I spend some time socializing with Mark because he's a good guy.

    So it's kind of casual. Didn't want to make it sound like burden.

    I would like to organize to buy Mark some X64 components.
    Specifically a Ryzen Gen2 cpu, some DDR4 and a decent motherboard.

    You're all harping about the X64 shift, and Mark also said that faster X64 hardware would cut his compile times, making working with Oddesey and other packages easier.

    After all, Bigfoot has contributed more than just graphics drivers.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »25.04.18 - 10:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2792 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Thanks David, but the cost and avaibility here (even in Europe) is much better than in South Africa.
    And it's been educational so far.
    Also, Frank usually buys better cards for himself, and I spend some time socializing with Mark because he's a good guy.

    So it's kind of casual. Didn't want to make it sound like burden.

    I would like to organize to buy Mark some X64 components.
    Specifically a Ryzen Gen2 cpu, some DDR4 and a decent motherboard.

    You're all harping about the X64 shift, and Mark also said that faster X64 hardware would cut his compile times, making working with Oddesey and other packages easier.

    After all, Bigfoot has contributed more than just graphics drivers.


    I don't doubt that you have enjoyed helping the MorphOS Dev. Team by sending video cards and such to Mark and others, and getting to socialize a bit with them, but you could continue to do all of that, while just letting a few of us share in the cost, by sending you either more video cards that the team needs, or some money to pay for future gear purchases, and shipping costs.

    Although I would never consider monthly, or even yearly, fixed contributions to Hyperion for development of AmigaOS4, I'm not opposed to sending the MorphOS Dev. Team a monthly, or yearly donation to help fund further development of MorphOS and the Odyssey web browser.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »26.04.18 - 02:41
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @AmigaDave

    Thanks David,
    I'll try to get this Oland card out, and the cpu cooler.

    Then the next thing I'd like to go for is a video card somewhere from an RX560 to and RX580.

    The new AMD socket AM4 motherboards aren't out yet, and the Ryzen 7 2800X isn't available out either (and at similar clock speeds there isn't much difference between the current 1800X and the new 2700X, so might as well wait).

    And figuring out what memory is compatible will take awhile.

    It would be nice to get some of this together by Fall.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.04.18 - 20:14
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11571 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    >>> Does MorphOS 3.10 support the GbE controller of the P5020?

    >> [...] a Realtek 8168/8169/8111/whichever on the network side

    > I take this as a no ;-)

    "P50x0_eth (New): A resource used for handling access to resources related to P50x0 Ethernet."
    http://www.morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.11

    What does this rather cryptic phrase mean? Is the GbE controller of the P5020 supported now?
  • »06.07.18 - 15:43
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1327 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    It is not.
  • »06.07.18 - 15:45
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    outrun1978
    Posts: 28 from 2018/7/8
    Am typing this from my X5000 and have to say I really am liking how MorphOS runs on this machine.... well done guys!!
  • »17.07.18 - 23:56
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    outrun1978 wrote:
    Am typing this from my X5000 and have to say I really am liking how MorphOS runs on this machine.... well done guys!!






    I envy you there. What graphic card are you using?
    Andreas has made a extremely valid argument for the development of drivers for later AMD gpus, but right now the best cards we support don't have 3D support under OS4.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »18.07.18 - 00:52
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    outrun1978
    Posts: 28 from 2018/7/8
    The Radeon 7750 is in an anti static bag in safe keeping until you guys are able to support it. Installed a Radeon X1550 on it last night and will try out a Radeon x600 and Radeon HD4890 today. My idea is to have some sort of happy medium across all 3 platforms, AmigaOS,Linux and MorphOS. I realise that it won’t do everything you want to yet but you have to sacrifice something.

    The 7750 doesn’t yet support hardware acceleration in linux so am seeing how the older cards fare.

    The taster I had on a Mac Mini G4 this past week more or less convinced me to do this.

    Really like Iris it’s streets ahead of Simplemail and Yam. Folio is an interesting word processor. Blown away by the playback of a Mplayer on the X5000. Odyssey runs really quick and is more updated. MorphOS isn’t perfect I would like to see RuninUAE at some point. There is however a lot to like here and you guys should really be marketing this thing a heck of a lot better.

    Sadly marketing of the Amiga in its various guises is perhaps its biggest downfall and the biggest barrier to any growth...
  • »18.07.18 - 06:56
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    The HD 4890 should perform well. The driver doesn't have 3D acceleration yet though.

    The other cards you have do have 3D support, so that might be the deciding factor for you.

    I'd love to see a solution similar to RunInUAE myself.

    So, what do you think about the overall look and feel of the OS?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »18.07.18 - 08:53
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    outrun1978
    Posts: 28 from 2018/7/8
    First impressions have been good I really like it a lot for me to do what I have done and abandon my Radeon 7750 card on OS4 should say a lot, it does feel like a modern day up to date version of 3.1 which i guess is no surprise given the history of the OS. I like OS 4 too but for me that feels like an extension of OS 3.9 so there are some subtle differences.

    This is much quicker than it was on the Mac Mini G4 that i was using that had 512MB.

    The big upside is that thanks to MorphOS running version 1.25 of Odyssey I can now use all the features of Wordpress again
  • »18.07.18 - 09:04
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11571 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > you guys should really be marketing this thing a heck of a lot better.

    Marketing MorphOS in Amiga forums is what some say led to the exodus from amiga.org to amigaworld.net and then to the 2nd exodus from amigaworld.net to amigans.net (where finally mention of MorphOS has been barely tolerated) ;-)
  • »18.07.18 - 10:06
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