MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Hey Paul,

    do you remember this quote by you earlier in this very thread?

    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    We will sure as hell beat them in price for a G5 system over what a X5000 will run! I cant see any reason to spend that kind of money when you can get a fantastic Mac system. If they want to sell those things in significant numbers the price needs to come way down. It cant be even slightly near the X1000 prices!

    yet again they did sell out of those, but know knows.


    I specially like the last sentence of your quote, which I have moved to just below this sentence of my own.

    Quote:

    Acill wrote: The "Amiga" market is nuts.


    I guess you changed your mind about the X5000 since that earlier post. ;-)
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »15.09.17 - 20:36
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1914 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Hey Paul,

    do you remember this quote by you earlier in this very thread?

    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    We will sure as hell beat them in price for a G5 system over what a X5000 will run! I cant see any reason to spend that kind of money when you can get a fantastic Mac system. If they want to sell those things in significant numbers the price needs to come way down. It cant be even slightly near the X1000 prices!

    yet again they did sell out of those, but know knows.


    I specially like the last sentence of your quote, which I have moved to just below this sentence of my own.

    Quote:

    Acill wrote: The "Amiga" market is nuts.


    I guess you changed your mind about the X5000 since that earlier post. ;-)



    Not at all. I didnt pay for my X5000 in the traditional way. I ended up getting rid of a couple classic machines that I upgraded and repaired in trade for the funds to get one. An A4000 with an 040 and several upgrades and an A3000 with the same.
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  • »16.09.17 - 23:58
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 80 from 2017/9/10
    i sold this for have the money for buy my x5000 ... and this made more sed

    Amiga 4000 PPC
  • »17.09.17 - 04:07
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    tlosmx wrote:
    i sold this for have the money for buy my x5000 ... and this made more sed

    Amiga 4000 PPC


    Now I know why you're pissed.
    That was a mistake.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »17.09.17 - 14:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    tlosmx wrote:
    i sold this for have the money for buy my x5000 ... and this made more sed

    Amiga 4000 PPC


    Now I know why you're pissed.
    That was a mistake.


    Yes, that was a very nice (maybe the nicest A4000 ever), and probably ran AmigaOS4 fast enough to give a fairly satisfactory experience. Actually, probably a great experience for anything except web browsing some intensive websites.

    I wonder how the 604e at 366MHz compares to the Efika's @400MHz? I think I remember someone referring to the Efika's CPU as a G2, or G3 class PPC CPU, so I imagine that the Efika would be faster, even if the clock rates were identical.

    What I don't understand is why tlosmx would sell his fantastic A4000 w/366MHz 604e & 66MHz 060 accelerator, after he already had purchased an X5000-5020, and the X5000 5040 was only going to be marginally faster. Maybe he thought the 5040 would be close to twice as fast at running Linux PPC, which is his primary OS? Maybe he sold the ultimate A4000 to purchase both the 5020 and 5040 X5000's?

    Didn't the RAM speed problems show up on the 5020, or is it only the 5040 that he is complaining about which has the RAM speed problems?

    I hope he can recover enough of his investment by selling both X5000 systems, to begin building another ultimate A4000, or save up more money and buy a Talos II, for the ultimate PPC Linux experience.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »18.09.17 - 18:23
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1246 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    I wonder how the 604e at 366MHz compares to the Efika's @400MHz? I think I remember someone referring to the Efika's CPU as a G2, or G3 class PPC CPU, so I imagine that the Efika would be faster, even if the clock rates were identical.


    Well, according to this page (Efika vs The rest of the world) MPC5200B at 396 MHz it's either on par or slightly faster than PPC 603/604 overclocked to 366/400 MHz.
  • »18.09.17 - 18:38
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2218 from 2003/2/24
    The 604 core was a deadend at Moto/Freescale/name_of_the_week, all newer CPUs/SOCs can be traced back to the 603.

    603/604 are also called G(eneration)2.

    The CPUs on Phase5 PPC cards are crippled by a slow RAM interface, a "pure" 604 (say an old Mac or clone) should be able to beat the EFIKA clock for clock.

    [ Edited by Kronos 18.09.2017 - 21:06 ]
  • »18.09.17 - 19:04
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12027 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I wonder how the 604e at 366MHz compares to the Efika's @400MHz? I think I
    > remember someone referring to the Efika's CPU as a G2, or G3 class PPC CPU,
    > so I imagine that the Efika would be faster, even if the clock rates were identical.

    The core of the MPC5200B is the G2_LE (also called e300c0), which is a slightly enhanced 603e core (also called G2).

    http://www.nxp.com/docs/en/reference-manual/G2CORERM.pdf

    So in essence, the MPC5200B should be slightly faster per clock than the 603e. The fact that the 604e is also faster per clock than the 603e should be able to at least compensate this. I would like to see proper CPU benchmark results between 604e and MPC5200B myself.

    > What I don't understand is why tlosmx would sell his fantastic A4000 [...] after he
    > already had purchased an X5000-5020 [...]. Maybe he sold the ultimate A4000
    > to purchase both the 5020 and 5040 X5000's?

    "was need money for buy the x5000"
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=42094&forum=33&start=200#803082

    > Didn't the RAM speed problems show up on the 5020, or is it only the 5040 that he is
    > complaining about which has the RAM speed problems?

    Isn't that the same twice ("not on the 5020" vs. "only the 5040")? Either way, he clearly complained about both systems, with the X5000/20 being even slower than the X5000/40.

    > I hope he can recover enough of his investment by selling both X5000 systems

    Does he still own the X5000/20? Or did he sell the X5000/20 to buy the X5000/40?
  • »18.09.17 - 22:12
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 80 from 2017/9/10
    i sold my x5000/20 (i had it from september 2015 ) a month ago i have the 5040 from september 2016
    the ram performances are poor in both machines.
    soon i will sell x5000/40 too,no reason for me to have it... all what i sow and was gave to me by this experience make me really disgusting... i dont wanna see nothing more that come from a-eon or amigakit.

    for os4 i can will use qemu sam460 or winuae/fsuae, for mos i hope will have one day it running on my g5 quad.

    my yesterday video of quad with ubuntu mate 16 video

    [ Edited by tlosmx 18.09.2017 - 23:40 ]
  • »18.09.17 - 22:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12027 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The 604 core was a deadend at Moto/Freescale/name_of_the_week,
    > all newer CPUs/SOCs can be traced back to the 603.

    The 603 lineage stopped with the e300 (MobileGT / MPC512x and PowerQUICC II Pro / MPC837x) and the e600 (MPC7448 / MPC86xx) short of a decade ago, so has turned out as a dead end as well. The MPC8xx / MPC5xx / e200 and e500 lineages (including e5500 / e6500) which the newer Qorivva and QorIQ P/T (as well as older PowerQUICC III / MPC85xx) are based on are not derived from the 603 / e300 / e600 lineage.
  • »18.09.17 - 22:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    tlosmx wrote:

    soon i will sell x5000/40


    There opens a great opportunity for you, Jim!

    ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »18.09.17 - 23:53
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 80 from 2017/9/10
    i have already a buyer jim. he is collecting money for it.
    i will sell my complete system. X5000/40 is not priceless
  • »19.09.17 - 08:13
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1914 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    Can we get back on topic?

    Has any news at all on the status of MorphOS been posted on the machine? For now I have my G5 and X5000 on a KVM but would love to just have the one system up.
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  • »19.09.17 - 14:40
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    Can we get back on topic?

    Has any news at all on the status of MorphOS been posted on the machine? For now I have my G5 and X5000 on a KVM but would love to just have the one system up.


    Why don't you talk to one of the developers? Maybe they could use another beta tester.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.09.17 - 17:01
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1914 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    Can we get back on topic?

    Has any news at all on the status of MorphOS been posted on the machine? For now I have my G5 and X5000 on a KVM but would love to just have the one system up.


    Why don't you talk to one of the developers? Maybe they could use another beta tester.


    I'd love to get in on that, but I don't think the 250X card in my machine will be supported. That and I've never got a reply back from any when in IRC or here in the past. I never thought to ask as a result.
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  • »19.09.17 - 20:38
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    eliyahu
    Posts: 67 from 2011/4/21
    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:Why don't you talk to one of the developers? Maybe they could use another beta tester.


    I'd love to get in on that, but I don't think the 250X card in my machine will be supported. That and I've never got a reply back from any when in IRC or here in the past. I never thought to ask as a result.

    i'd love to get the opportunity to test MOS for X5000. i've been dying to start running it on my X5K since my pegasos2 is really on its last legs. i'd even be happy to help demo it at amiwest if amigadave can help make sure i point all the cool bits. there are quite a few potential converts at amiwest from both the 68K enthusiasts and (increasingly) disenchanted AOS4 users. and i expect MOS to smoke AOS4 on the X5K in terms of performance. ;-)

    -- eliyahu
  • »19.09.17 - 21:22
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    Can we get back on topic?

    Has any news at all on the status of MorphOS been posted on the machine? For now I have my G5 and X5000 on a KVM but would love to just have the one system up.


    Why don't you talk to one of the developers? Maybe they could use another beta tester.


    I'd love to get in on that, but I don't think the 250X card in my machine will be supported. That and I've never got a reply back from any when in IRC or here in the past. I never thought to ask as a result.


    Well, I did offer to loan you a Radeon HD 6750, but I don't know what state the drivers for the 6000 series are in.
    The R600 and R700 drivers should be close enough to release for a functioning beta, but that would mean a switch to something like a 4650 (or 70), or a 4850/70/90 card.

    I've shipped the R700 cards I had on hand to Mark, but I'd be willing to source something for a demo.

    And a 4870 or 4890 would probably still do well under OS4.1.

    Further, we might be lucky, and find that Mark has a serviceable 5000 or higher driver.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.09.17 - 21:24
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 80 from 2017/9/10
    Quote:

    And a 4870 or 4890 would probably still do well under OS4.1.

    works but no 3d. all 4xxx 5xxx 6xxx (NI) series dont have 3d on os . Only some cards of SI series is 3d accelerated with warp3d si and warp3d nova.
  • »19.09.17 - 21:31
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1914 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    I'd be willing to put in a new drive with it and another video card if it booted right into MorphOS. Switching back the original drive and video card would be simple enough to get OF4.1FE back going when it was done.

    Hopefully I can get to Amiwest and find a room to crash in. Heck all I need is a couch.
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  • »19.09.17 - 21:53
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    I'd be willing to put in a new drive with it and another video card if it booted right into MorphOS. Switching back the original drive and video card would be simple enough to get OF4.1FE back going when it was done.

    Hopefully I can get to Amiwest and find a room to crash in. Heck all I need is a couch.


    You ought to talk to David "AmigaDave" Morris. He probably has a table arranged and may need someone to split a room with.
    And it sounds like the hotel is overbooked, so it couldn't hurt to try to work something out.
    Besides, I'd be willing to bet that David would love to have a demo X5000 set up.
    Heck, makes me wish I could attend.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.09.17 - 23:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2793 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    I'd be willing to put in a new drive with it and another video card if it booted right into MorphOS. Switching back the original drive and video card would be simple enough to get OF4.1FE back going when it was done.

    Hopefully I can get to Amiwest and find a room to crash in. Heck all I need is a couch.


    You ought to talk to David "AmigaDave" Morris. He probably has a table arranged and may need someone to split a room with.
    And it sounds like the hotel is overbooked, so it couldn't hurt to try to work something out.
    Besides, I'd be willing to bet that David would love to have a demo X5000 set up.
    Heck, makes me wish I could attend.


    See my reply to Acill in the other thread regarding his sharing a room and attending AmiWest. I'm certain we can work something out.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »20.09.17 - 02:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12027 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Correction:

    >> the x16 slot only has [...] connected [...] 4 lanes. But the data sheet [...] speaks
    >> about many controllers but *not available simultaneously* (depends on HW
    >> configuration perhaps?), so with the known other features of the Tabor, does
    >> x4 lanes for graphics sound reasonable?

    > Yes, it sounds reasonable to me that one of the three PCIe controllers uses
    > four of the six SerDes lanes.

    I don't know what I was thinking two years ago when I answered that question, but of course it doesn't sound reasonable at all to use 4 out of 6 available SerDes lanes for PCIe, and also use 2x SATA and GbE from the P1022 which requires 3 more SerDes lanes, adding up to 7 required SerDes lanes in total.

    More details:
    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12151&forum=11&start=39

    Edit: mystery solved

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 15.06.2018 - 13:16 ]
  • »27.09.17 - 10:54
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Correction:

    >> the x16 slot only has [...] connected [...] 4 lanes. But the data sheet [...] speaks
    >> about many controllers but *not available simultaneously* (depends on HW
    >> configuration perhaps?), so with the known other features of the Tabor, does
    >> x4 lanes for graphics sound reasonable?

    > Yes, it sounds reasonable to me that one of the three PCIe controllers uses
    > four of the six SerDes lanes.

    I don't know what I was thinking two years ago when I answered that question, but of course it doesn't sound reasonable at all to use 4 out of 6 available SerDes lanes for PCIe, and also use 2x SATA and GbE from the P1022 which requires 3 more SerDes lanes, adding up to 7 required SerDes lanes in total.

    More details:
    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12151&forum=11&start=39


    Hey, don't beat yourself up over that, I pretty much ignored Tabor until the discussions about the X5000's limitations started.
    Then I thought 'wait a minute, how many lanes can the P1022 provide?'.
    It doesn't add up, does it?
    They could be using something that multiplexes or switches PCI-E lanes, but not having a complete set of specs on Tabor, I don't know.
    Didn't we have a screenshot of that board at one time?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »27.09.17 - 15:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12027 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > They could be using something that multiplexes or switches PCI-E lanes

    Of course, they could be using a PCIe bridge to multiplex 2 input lanes to 4 output lanes, but I don't think anything could be won by multiplexing or switching lanes that all go to the very same slot anyway. They could as well multiplex 2 input lanes to 16 output lanes and claim a fully connected x16 slot ;-)

    > Didn't we have a screenshot of that board at one time?

    A screenshot of a board? :-) There's a shot in the A-Eon press release linked to in my comment you quoted the link to above, but it doesn't help me to identify the solution to this mystery. A block diagram would come in handy.
  • »27.09.17 - 23:45
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