MorphZone

MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?

takemehomegrandma

# 66
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24

Quote:

vox wrote:

I am saying all this, because X5000 is similar product. Its not in high end computing but in niche market of fastest available desktop PPC board. Whatever promotion and market visibility X5000 receives, there is a potential benefit for MorphOS.

The way I see it there is zero benefit for MorphOS for neither Sam 460 or X5000 (other than the said improvements of Quark that happened because of this and new graphics drivers that later can be used on x86). They are too limited, too expensive, have too few users. As a "HW path forward" for MorphOS (and OS4) they are a dead-end (the same goes for OS4 of course).

Luckily it has now become more publicly acknowledged than before that the MorphOS Team are working towards a *real* future on a *real* HW platform, so under any circumstances the Sam 460 and X5000 are just side tracks on the way there, a parenthesis in MorphOS's future history...
MorphOS is Amiga done right!
MorphOS NG will be AROS done right!
»22.04.15 - 09:19

itix

# 67
MorphOS Developer

Posts: 1516 from 2003/2/24

From: Finland

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:
The way I see it there is zero benefit for MorphOS for neither Sam 460 or X5000 (other than the said improvements of Quark that happened because of this and new graphics drivers that later can be used on x86). They are too limited, too expensive, have too few users. As a "HW path forward" for MorphOS (and OS4) they are a dead-end (the same goes for OS4 of course).

I dont think there are going to be many users buying new AmigaOne to run MorphOS only but at least OS4 users have now chance to get MorphOS for their hardware and MorphOS users have chance to buy new hardware.

It is not benefit for MorphOS per se but benefit to users.
1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
»22.04.15 - 10:48

Yasu

# 68
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22

From: Stockholm, Sweden

Like itix said. Plus, it will give the community some competition on equal terms again
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AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

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»22.04.15 - 12:40

vox

# 69
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25

From: Belgrade

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:
Quote:

vox wrote:

I am saying all this, because X5000 is similar product. Its not in high end computing but in niche market of fastest available desktop PPC board. Whatever promotion and market visibility X5000 receives, there is a potential benefit for MorphOS.

The way I see it there is zero benefit for MorphOS for neither Sam 460 or X5000 (other than the said improvements of Quark that happened because of this and new graphics drivers that later can be used on x86). They are too limited, too expensive, have too few users. As a "HW path forward" for MorphOS (and OS4) they are a dead-end (the same goes for OS4 of course).

Luckily it has now become more publicly acknowledged than before that the MorphOS Team are working towards a *real* future on a *real* HW platform, so under any circumstances the Sam 460 and X5000 are just side tracks on the way there, a parenthesis in MorphOS's future history...

Radeon and possible other PCI-E drivers aren`t that little, its a huge leap forward. As long as MorphOS is PPC, its good to have more mobos supported and it will be good to see MorphOS offered again in shops. No one is saying that is definite end or major benefit. Other then that I might think X5000 (maybe X1000 too) could be used to develop PPC64 (general 64-bit version) and multicore support.

So, there is still some work to do.

In perfect future MorphOS 4 would be offered both AMD64 and PPC32/64.

Likewise, its more benefit to current and possible SAM/x5000 owners, but there is also some benefit of having them on MorphOS side.
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»22.04.15 - 21:35

Andreas_Wolf

# 70
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> X5000 (maybe X1000 too) could be used to develop PPC64 (general 64-bit version)

Could also be done with supported G5 Macs.

> and multicore support.

Could also be done with supported dual-G4 and dual-G5 Macs.
»22.04.15 - 22:42

Jim

# 71
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> X5000 (maybe X1000 too) could be used to develop PPC64 (general 64-bit version)

Could also be done with supported G5 Macs.

> and multicore support.

Could also be done with supported dual-G4 and dual-G5 Macs.

Bingo!
The path to another ISA can start here with further development of the PPC variant.
Sorry grandma, I'm in no hurry to ditch the PPC.
And, as I have said, I will be buying an X5000.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»06.05.15 - 15:33

redrumloa

# 72
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13

Quote:

Yasu wrote:
Like itix said. Plus, it will give the community some competition on equal terms again

Well on the corporate sites (AO/AWN/Amigans), once again direct comparisons are being considered "trolling" and "FUD". I doubt many benchmarks will be allowed once MorphOS is available for the two AmigaOne systems.
»07.05.15 - 01:04

Jim

# 73
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Quote:

redrumloa wrote:
Quote:

Yasu wrote:
Like itix said. Plus, it will give the community some competition on equal terms again

Well on the corporate sites (AO/AWN/Amigans), once again direct comparisons are being considered "trolling" and "FUD". I doubt many benchmarks will be allowed once MorphOS is available for the two AmigaOne systems.

Yes, they don't care for comparisons.
Then there is those few that want to make MorphOS look like OS4 (which I really don't get as Ambient is, to me, a big improvement).

What it comes down to is OS4 is basically a PPC port of OS3.1, while MorphOS is a new operating system with OS3.1 API compatibility.

They aren't really as similar as they would appear.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»07.05.15 - 11:52

Leo

# 74
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 417 from 2003/8/18

Quote:

Well on the corporate sites (AO/AWN/Amigans), once again direct comparisons are being considered "trolling" and "FUD"

Truth hurts...
Nothing hurts a project more than developers not taking the time to let their community know what is going on.
»07.05.15 - 14:06

Cego

# 75
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 712 from 2006/5/28

From: Germany

Quote:

Jim wrote:
Quote:

redrumloa wrote:
Quote:

Yasu wrote:
Like itix said. Plus, it will give the community some competition on equal terms again

Well on the corporate sites (AO/AWN/Amigans), once again direct comparisons are being considered "trolling" and "FUD". I doubt many benchmarks will be allowed once MorphOS is available for the two AmigaOne systems.

Yes, they don't care for comparisons.
Then there is those few that want to make MorphOS look like OS4 (which I really don't get as Ambient is, to me, a big improvement).

What it comes down to is OS4 is basically a PPC port of OS3.1, while MorphOS is a new operating system with OS3.1 API compatibility.

They aren't really as similar as they would appear.

don't forget: the MorphOS Team consists of competent and very good coders compared to some bad and shitty game porters from belgium. Just look at OS4. There is no philosophy and no vision. They just take everything from everywhere, adapt it and provide it with an OS4 skin. Look at MUI, ReAction, AmiCygnix,...
They just don't have a clue what OS4 is actually about...
Pegasos II G4 @1.0GHz, 1GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9200Pro, 240GB SSD+160GB HD, MorphOS 3.18, AmigaOS4.1 FE, Debian 8
»07.05.15 - 14:09

Yasu

# 76
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22

From: Stockholm, Sweden

Benchmarks isn't forbidden here so people will find out eventually about them anyway. Maybe MorphOS will be the lesser system. Wanna bet?
AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

My MorphOS blog
»07.05.15 - 14:52

kolla

# 77
Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 105 from 2003/4/22

Benchmarks... why care about benchmarks on irrelevant hardware? Both OS4 and MorphOS are so way behind, and all people care about are benchmarks and framerates of 15 year old games ported from PCs. Are there really noone who wants to see a modern incarnation of the platform?
-- kolla
»07.05.15 - 18:31

takemehomegrandma

# 78
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24

Quote:

kolla wrote:
Benchmarks... why care about benchmarks on irrelevant hardware? Both OS4 and MorphOS are so way behind, and all people care about are benchmarks and framerates of 15 year old games ported from PCs. Are there really noone who wants to see a modern incarnation of the platform?

The MorphOS developers does!
MorphOS is Amiga done right!
MorphOS NG will be AROS done right!
»07.05.15 - 20:00

Zylesea

# 79
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4

Quote:

redrumloa schrieb:
Quote:

Yasu wrote:
Like itix said. Plus, it will give the community some competition on equal terms again

Well on the corporate sites (AO/AWN/Amigans), once again direct comparisons are being considered "trolling" and "FUD". I doubt many benchmarks will be allowed once MorphOS is available for the two AmigaOne systems.

The corporate site owners are interested in sales. especially of expensive hardwrae. If the hardware will rock with MorphOS it will be as welcome to them as well. Once the X5000 will be supported officially they cannot hide under a rock, but must allow actual numbers. I am looking happily forward to that.
--
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...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
»07.05.15 - 20:56

Andreas_Wolf

# 80
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> some bad and shitty game porters from belgium.

Hermans and De Groote don't port games. Or who do you mean?

> They just don't have a clue what OS4 is actually about...

Do you?
»07.05.15 - 22:26

kolla

# 81
Acolyte of the Butterfly

Posts: 105 from 2003/4/22

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote:
Quote:

kolla wrote:
Benchmarks... why care about benchmarks on irrelevant hardware? Both OS4 and MorphOS are so way behind, and all people care about are benchmarks and framerates of 15 year old games ported from PCs. Are there really noone who wants to see a modern incarnation of the platform?

The MorphOS developers does!

I may believe it when I see something tangible, something I can use.
-- kolla
»07.05.15 - 22:26

Andreas_Wolf

# 82
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

First traces in release notes:

"MorphOS/Libs/bugreport.library: Fixed version and revision decoding for e5500 based cores
MorphOS/Libs/powerpc.library: Report AMCC 4x0 and Freescale e5500 as G3
MorphOS/C/ShowConfig: Fixed version and revision decoding for e5500 based cores."
http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.8
»16.05.15 - 13:32

Jupp3

# 83
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1193 from 2003/2/24

From: Helsinki, Finland

Quote:

Cego wrote:
Just look at OS4. There is no philosophy and no vision. They just take everything from everywhere, adapt it and provide it with an OS4 skin. Look at MUI, ReAction, AmiCygnix,...
They just don't have a clue what OS4 is actually about...

Why would they need any vision? Shouldn't "Being The Real AmigaOS" be more than enough?
»16.05.15 - 15:46

Andreas_Wolf

# 84
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> we don't know much real life power of the 50x0. While the PA6T is a pretty
> castrated chip of low performance this may not be the case for the 50x0.

"Recent benchmark tests with Warp3D using an XFX RadeonHD 7770 Southern Island graphics card under AmigaOS4.1 have shown the raw power of the P5020 CPU. The infamous Cow3D demo is almost 100% faster on the X5000 compared to any other AmigaOS4 PowerPC hardware and that is with the X5000 running a debug version of the AmigaOS 4.1 kernel which is not optimised for speedy performance."
http://distrita.com/a-eon-interview-about-amigas-future/
»02.06.15 - 16:57

boot_wb

# 85
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9

From: Kingston upon ...

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> we don't know much real life power of the 50x0. While the PA6T is a pretty
> castrated chip of low performance this may not be the case for the 50x0.

"Recent benchmark tests with Warp3D using an XFX RadeonHD 7770 Southern Island graphics card under AmigaOS4.1 have shown the raw power of the P5020 CPU. The infamous Cow3D demo is almost 100% faster on the X5000 compared to any other AmigaOS4 PowerPC hardware and that is with the X5000 running a debug version of the AmigaOS 4.1 kernel which is not optimised for speedy performance."
http://distrita.com/a-eon-interview-about-amigas-future/

Isn't that to be expected?

Quote:

Cyrus just happens to use the x-kernel exclusively unlike the X1000 which can run either kernel.

http://bb3.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38284&forum=2&start=300&viewmode=flat&order=0#720698

/evil laugh
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»02.06.15 - 17:03

Andreas_Wolf

# 86
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> Isn't that to be expected?

Interesting notion. I neglected to think this might be the X-kernel at work here. Trevor should clarify this, I think.
»02.06.15 - 17:21

Jim

# 87
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Another quote from Steve Solie?
Yes, that does deserve an evil laugh.

The news on the X5000's performance is heartening.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»02.06.15 - 17:22

Andreas_Wolf

# 88
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> Another quote from Steve Solie?

Yes, this quote was discussed here on MorphZone back then:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7183&start=917
»02.06.15 - 17:34

Jim

# 89
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Thanks, having contributed to that thread you would think I would remember it.

While I have exchanged a few messages with Steve, and he seems at least enthusiastic, I am unsure of how knowledgable he is.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»02.06.15 - 18:03

Andreas_Wolf

# 90
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> While [...] Steve [...] seems at least enthusiastic, I am unsure of how knowledgable he is.

You're becoming tame ;-)

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11158&forum=3&start=1
»02.06.15 - 22:09