MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    The price you quoted is for the bare board


    Look again. It is a bundle with MB and software. OS4, Enhancer Pack, Personal Paint and Amiga Racer are all included. If ever a time came where I was interested in a Cyrus board, I wouldn't want a bundle with anything OS4 related that would collect dust on a shelf.
  • »09.10.16 - 02:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Can we get real benchmarks now from MorphOS 3.10 betatesters?

    I'm sure pampers' offer from comment #226 still stands.
  • »09.10.16 - 08:23
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    The price you quoted is for the bare board


    Look again. It is a bundle with MB and software. OS4, Enhancer Pack, Personal Paint and Amiga Racer are all included. If ever a time came where I was interested in a Cyrus board, I wouldn't want a bundle with anything OS4 related that would collect dust on a shelf.


    That is not an issue for me.
    I'm not that fanatical, and Hyperion doesn't make that much out of that sale, the majority of the items being from other vendors.
    They are just trying to enhance the value of the package to the majority of buyers, a good business practice.

    AND, its not a system price, like I said, I could have purchased the system last night.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.10.16 - 11:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:


    That is not an issue for me.
    I'm not that fanatical, and Hyperion doesn't make that much out of that sale, the majority of the items being from other vendors.
    They are just trying to enhance the value of the package to the majority of buyers, a good business practice


    What is fanatical about not wanting to pay for something you'd never use? We are talking about $1,600 for a MB and CPU that performs on the level of PC from about a 10 years ago. Anyone outside of our Kommunity would look at someone paying that price and would think that person should be Baker Act'ed. If I ever decided I wanted a Cyrus board for MorphOS, I'd want it a cheap as humanly possible and that would mean no software bundle that would collect dust. That $1,350 Amiwest price looks a lot better than this $1,600 price.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 09.10.2016 - 13:32 ]
  • »09.10.16 - 15:29
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:


    That is not an issue for me.
    I'm not that fanatical, and Hyperion doesn't make that much out of that sale, the majority of the items being from other vendors.
    They are just trying to enhance the value of the package to the majority of buyers, a good business practice


    What is fanatical about not wanting to pay for something you'd never use? We are talking about $1,600 for a MB and CPU that performs on the level of PC from about a 10 years ago. Anyone outside of our Kommunity would look at someone paying that price and would think that person should be Baker Act'ed. If I ever decided I wanted a Cyrus board for MorphOS, I'd want it a cheap as humanly possible and that would mean no software bundle that would collect dust. That $1,350 Amiwest price looks a lot better than this $1,600 price.


    The comment about a law your state enacted purely so that prosecutors could gain access to private medical records is wholly unnecessary (for the matter, any reference to Florida's legal system is both irritating and irrelevant).
    And I doubt that package adds significant cost to an already costly purchase.

    Lets face it, your reasoning is more personal than it is economic.
    And that is more a reflection on mental state than is an analysis of the community at large.

    [ Edited by Jim 09.10.2016 - 13:38 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.10.16 - 15:37
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    What is fanatical about not wanting to pay for something you'd never use? We are talking about $1,600 for a MB and CPU that performs on the level of PC from about a 10 years ago. Anyone outside of our Kommunity would look at someone paying that price and would think that person should be Baker Act'ed. If I ever decided I wanted a Cyrus board for MorphOS, I'd want it a cheap as humanly possible and that would mean no software bundle that would collect dust. That $1,350 Amiwest price looks a lot better than this $1,600 price.


    It's not the price alone that matters, but also the level of support. The OS4 crowd have always been quick to point out the price of Apple and indeed Commodore hardware when challenged. While these were expensive, you would be sure in both cases you'd get a complete OS and enter a world where there was plenty of software to meet your needs, whether it be games or productivity or just freeware.

    What made the X1000 such a massive rip wasn't just the price, it was its unfinished support and the attitude that you should just suck it down for the greater good, i.e. TEH AMIGA. You could buy some cheap Android device and find out its Chinese ARM fork doesn't run the apps you want, or has a buggy Android install that can't be upgraded, or find out its hardware acceleration won't run Netflix. You lost £30. Not £3000. Or, in this case, £1400.

    Will OS4 support the X5000 properly? Doubtful. Will you get anything but an ancient, buggy PPC Linux on it? Not so likely. Would the MorphOS developers, assuming they support it at all, do more than lipservice to the handful of people who would run it on one? Fat chance. Will you get your browser to play YouTube videos? Not with *that* CPU.
  • »09.10.16 - 16:38
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Can we get real benchmarks now from MorphOS 3.10 betatesters?

    I'm sure pampers' offer from comment #226 still stands.


    I already did some. Looking for something else, just gimme a shout.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »09.10.16 - 16:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    The comment about a law your state enacted purely so that prosecutors could gain access to private medical records is wholly unnecessary (for the matter, any reference to Florida's legal system is both irritating and irrelevant).


    Actually I completely forgot that the Baker Act was a Florida specific law.


    Quote:


    And I doubt that package adds significant cost to an already costly purchase.


    Amiwest price presumably without software package - $1,350.
    Dealer price with software package - $,1600.
    You do the math.

    Quote:

    Lets face it, your reasoning is more personal than it is economic.
    And that is more a reflection on mental state than is an analysis of the community at large.


    Let's face it, you have no clue what my reasoning is. You getting so upset is more a reflection of whatever is going on in your head than mine. I really don't see what is so hard to understand about $1,350 being a more attractive price than $1,600. Maybe spending $250 on software you don't need is no problem for you, but I don't like wasting money as such.
  • »09.10.16 - 17:14
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    What is fanatical about not wanting to pay for something you'd never use? We are talking about $1,600 for a MB and CPU that performs on the level of PC from about a 10 years ago. Anyone outside of our Kommunity would look at someone paying that price and would think that person should be Baker Act'ed. If I ever decided I wanted a Cyrus board for MorphOS, I'd want it a cheap as humanly possible and that would mean no software bundle that would collect dust. That $1,350 Amiwest price looks a lot better than this $1,600 price.


    It's not the price alone that matters, but also the level of support. The OS4 crowd have always been quick to point out the price of Apple and indeed Commodore hardware when challenged. While these were expensive, you would be sure in both cases you'd get a complete OS and enter a world where there was plenty of software to meet your needs, whether it be games or productivity or just freeware.

    What made the X1000 such a massive rip wasn't just the price, it was its unfinished support and the attitude that you should just suck it down for the greater good, i.e. TEH AMIGA. You could buy some cheap Android device and find out its Chinese ARM fork doesn't run the apps you want, or has a buggy Android install that can't be upgraded, or find out its hardware acceleration won't run Netflix. You lost £30. Not £3000. Or, in this case, £1400.

    Will OS4 support the X5000 properly? Doubtful. Will you get anything but an ancient, buggy PPC Linux on it? Not so likely. Would the MorphOS developers, assuming they support it at all, do more than lipservice to the handful of people who would run it on one? Fat chance. Will you get your browser to play YouTube videos? Not with *that* CPU.


    I've been spoofing other browsers to play youtube videos for years now, without a problem.
    Your "not with *that* cpu" comment is simply wrong.
    And as far as "massive rip", you don't have to pay for an A-eon system, they don't seem to be having a problem selling them.
    Further, the Linux support seems better than what I am getting from the Linux community for my G5 Powermac.

    I have ARM devices, they have, do, and will really suck.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.10.16 - 17:22
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @redrumloa

    Personally I'd like it completely free, but it ain't happening.

    My vitriol about the Florida legal system?
    Just that your political leaders totally suck.

    And the price @ AmiWest?
    Show special, with only two in stock, direct from the manufacturer.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.10.16 - 17:38
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  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Prices from Amigakit's US site

    Backplate $11.23

    Enhancer Plus Edition $67.49

    Peronal Paint $16.75

    And from Amitec's site.

    Amiga Racer €20 = $22.40 at current exchange rate.
  • »09.10.16 - 18:08
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Let's face it, you have no clue what my reasoning is. You getting so upset is more a reflection of whatever is going on in your head than mine. I really don't see what is so hard to understand about $1,350 being a more attractive price than $1,600. Maybe spending $250 on software you don't need is no problem for you, but I don't like wasting money as such.



    I don't think it's worth debating, as the chances of MorphOS running on X5000 are practically nil, so nobody's going to be buying that stuff and not using it.

    Just say a little bird told me.
  • »09.10.16 - 18:14
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Let's face it, you have no clue what my reasoning is. You getting so upset is more a reflection of whatever is going on in your head than mine. I really don't see what is so hard to understand about $1,350 being a more attractive price than $1,600. Maybe spending $250 on software you don't need is no problem for you, but I don't like wasting money as such.



    I don't think it's worth debating, as the chances of MorphOS running on X5000 are practically nil, so nobody's going to be buying that stuff and not using it.

    Just say a little bird told me.


    My you must be hallucinating that birdie, since its already been shown, several developers have copies as does at least one beta tester.

    [ Edited by Jim 09.10.2016 - 16:18 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.10.16 - 18:18
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Let's face it, you have no clue what my reasoning is. You getting so upset is more a reflection of whatever is going on in your head than mine. I really don't see what is so hard to understand about $1,350 being a more attractive price than $1,600. Maybe spending $250 on software you don't need is no problem for you, but I don't like wasting money as such.



    I don't think it's worth debating, as the chances of MorphOS running on X5000 are practically nil, so nobody's going to be buying that stuff and not using it.

    Just say a little bird told me.


    My you must be hallucinating that birdie, since its already been shown, several developers have copies as does at least one beta tester.


    Don't say I didn't warn you.
  • »09.10.16 - 18:21
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Let's face it, you have no clue what my reasoning is. You getting so upset is more a reflection of whatever is going on in your head than mine. I really don't see what is so hard to understand about $1,350 being a more attractive price than $1,600. Maybe spending $250 on software you don't need is no problem for you, but I don't like wasting money as such.



    I don't think it's worth debating, as the chances of MorphOS running on X5000 are practically nil, so nobody's going to be buying that stuff and not using it.

    Just say a little bird told me.


    My you must be hallucinating that birdie, since its already been shown, several developers have copies as does at least one beta tester.


    Don't say I didn't warn you.


    Right...
    Because I should listen to you instead of the few developers I know or the friend that I have that's using an X5000 under MorphOS right now, sure...

    OK Red, you're right, Amigans ARE a bunch of head cases.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.10.16 - 18:26
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Right...
    Because I should listen to you instead of the few developers I know or the friend that I have that's using an X5000 under MorphOS right now, sure...

    OK Red, you're right, Amigans ARE a bunch of head cases.


    Fortunately not as much as a bunch of head cases as Amiga vendors - especially A-Eonkit.

    Do you really think they'd risk MorphOS becoming more popular on their flagship "OS4 boards"? I'm told by at least one very good source in the OS4 camp that they have absolutely no intention of allowing that. Cheep cheep.

    But keep believing, if it helps you get through the day.
  • »09.10.16 - 18:45
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Right...
    Because I should listen to you instead of the few developers I know or the friend that I have that's using an X5000 under MorphOS right now, sure...

    OK Red, you're right, Amigans ARE a bunch of head cases.


    Fortunately not as much as a bunch of head cases as Amiga vendors - especially A-Eonkit.

    Do you really think they'd risk MorphOS becoming more popular on their flagship "OS4 boards"? I'm told by at least one very good source in the OS4 camp that they have absolutely no intention of allowing that. Cheep cheep.

    But keep believing, if it helps you get through the day.


    I don't know who has been filling you in on their opinion about this, but Trevor supports the idea of MorphOS running on the X5000.
    And besides, why would we give a rat's ass what the OS4 community wants?
    Its not like they can stop third party software from running on the hardware.

    And if A-eonkit didn't want our developers working with Aeon's hardware, why would they have helped them to source it?
    We aren't warring factions you know, its just a hobbyist platform, not a religion.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.10.16 - 18:54
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    @redrumloa
    My vitriol about the Florida legal system?
    Just that your political leaders totally suck.


    Baker Act is an old law from 1971 that is rarely invoked. The term is used down here in a sarcastic manner the same as calling something "crazy" or "insane", not typically used in a clinically medical sense. My mistake was forgetting it was a regional term that wouldn't necessarily be widely known. I guess that's why you took it as a negative shot, when it was meant more as humor.

    I don't care what people do with their money, even if I don't necessarily understand it myself. I have no problem spending $300 on something like a Turbo Chameleon for my C64, or $50+ for a new boxed game for my C64 when i can afford it. People outside the C64 community might call that lunacy for spending such money on a 34 year old computer.

    Quote:

    And the price @ AmiWest?
    Show special, with only two in stock, direct from the manufacturer.


    Right, but it is the only example we've seen yet for a Cyrus board apparently without any sort of bundle. Unless we get other examples, this is what we have to go on.

    The "OS4 Tax" concern is not new, it has been part of the discussion since MorphOS was announced for the Cyrus. I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't completely shut the door on the concept of buying one to replace my G5. *IF* full MorphOS support arrives and *IF* it is proven to be significantly faster than my 2.7Ghz G5, I leave open the slight possibility I might be tempted to buy one. I would not be willing to pay an OS4 Tax though.
  • »09.10.16 - 18:59
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 868 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Right...
    Because I should listen to you instead of the few developers I know or the friend that I have that's using an X5000 under MorphOS right now, sure...

    OK Red, you're right, Amigans ARE a bunch of head cases.


    Fortunately not as much as a bunch of head cases as Amiga vendors - especially A-Eonkit.

    Do you really think they'd risk MorphOS becoming more popular on their flagship "OS4 boards"? I'm told by at least one very good source in the OS4 camp that they have absolutely no intention of allowing that. Cheep cheep.

    But keep believing, if it helps you get through the day.


    I don't know who has been filling you in on their opinion about this, but Trevor supports the idea of MorphOS running on the X5000.
    And besides, why would we give a rat's ass what the OS4 community wants?
    Its not like they can stop third party software from running on the hardware.

    And if A-eonkit didn't want our developers working with Aeon's hardware, why would they have helped them to source it?
    We aren't warring factions you know, its just a hobbyist platform, not a religion.


    Remember how Hyperion ported OS4 to the Pegasos 2 in 2006 and then sat on it for years until Genesi had stopped selling them? Remember how people actually *saw* OS4 running on the Peg2 and had posted screenshots, only to be met with a wall of impenetrable silence or outright denials? (Something about "undocumented hardware" springs to mind, as with the Apples) Remember how it was then released without a word of apology or anything else when it was clear that Genesi wouldn't make a single penny from it, and any questioning of why it took so long was ignored or censored?

    If you think anything has changed in the last decade, you may be somewhat disappointed. Hyperion (or Amikit?) wanted Cyrus, back in the day, to be exclusive, and Trevor wanted everything on it.
  • »09.10.16 - 19:05
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @redrumloa

    I get you, I don't like over-paying for things either.
    Frankly, I'd feel more comfortable with something in Tabor's price range, but with a better processor (like an T10XX).

    But we aren't getting anything like that any time soon as it would be an admission that the use of the P1022 was a bad idea.

    [ Edited by Jim 09.10.2016 - 18:56 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.10.16 - 19:06
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    eliyahu
    Posts: 67 from 2011/4/21
    Quote:

    And the price @ AmiWest?
    Show special, with only two in stock, direct from the manufacturer.

    not exactly. those two boards belonged to alex perez, who has been working on linux and u-boot development for the X5000. those aren't 'direct' from A-EON, but rather alex's boards; he just hadn't used them since he had plenty of others. those were what was left. that's why the price was lower and 'show only.'

    for folks in the US, amigaonthelake.com has plenty of stock in-house at the moment, and A-EON has additional dealers in europe with stock ready. the install CD is about to get pressed -- and once it does, things should be shipping to customers.

    -- eliyahu
  • »09.10.16 - 20:12
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  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    @Red

    A few MorphOS users that bought a Sam460 had the price of OS4 refunded but I think that's something under EU law. There's probably no such law in the US but the new dealer there may prefer a sale without a few hundred dollars of bundled software than no sale at all. There's no harm in you asking now, at least you'll know if your concerns a valid or not.

    @Kenny

    Do you seriously believe that the bigger part of the X5000's market will be MorphOS users?
    Save the snarky comment about how few OS4 users you'd like to think there are. How do you think they are going to stop OS4 from running on the X5000 anyway?
  • »09.10.16 - 20:25
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    ...How do you think they are going to stop OS4 from running on the X5000 anyway?


    And would anyone want to anyway?
    This thread has gone completely off the edge today.

    Although, it is heartening knowing the US has an X5000 vendor with product in stock.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.10.16 - 20:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Chinese ARM fork

    Chinese ARM SoCs use genuine Cortex-A cores from ARM Ltd.

    > Will you get anything but an ancient, buggy PPC Linux on it? Not so likely.

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=96

    > Would the MorphOS developers [...] do more than lipservice to the handful
    > of people who would run it on one? Fat chance.

    Lipservice? What does that mean in context of X5000 support?

    > Will you get your browser to play YouTube videos? Not with *that* CPU.

    I play Youtube videos (in 360p) with a slower CPU.
  • »09.10.16 - 21:21
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