MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @Andreas_Wolf

    OK, but I doubt it's not Trevor keeping the business floating anyway.
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  • »10.03.16 - 13:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1392 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @redrumla

    I don't think there is a law against being not profitable. If it is a share holding company all the company need to do when it's out of cash is to ask it's share holders for more. Because then the company is only accountable to it's shareholders and if they think it's a good idea to invest more money it's perfectly legal. Which is what I think the presumably main shareholder Trevor does.

    Remember the IT bubble? The share holders kept pouring in money into hugely unprofitable companies because they thought one day in the not too far future it would pay off. And most of the companies went belly up once the share holders realised that their "multi billion dollar companies" was worth about as much as a hot dog stand. The share holders had to take the knock-back because it was up to them to decide whether to invest more and more money into it or not. The only thing the companies had to do was not to lie about its revenue.

    Perfectly legal.


    That's not how it works, you are confusing privately owned companies with publicly trading company. A-Eon shares are 100% distributed between 3 officers, there are none left in the treasury to sell. A publicly traded company such as those during the Dot-com bubble sold shares during an IPO, and held a majority of shares in the treasury. When these dot-com companies needed more funds they would issue "secondaries" by taking shares from the treasury and selling either directly into the market or 2 a 3rd party at a discount. There is a world of difference between a public and a private company.

    Trevor can "loan" A-Eon cash, but that loan is supposed to be repaid at some point. This is not something that can happen forever, at some point A-Eon will have to be profitable.
  • »10.03.16 - 13:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    They don't have to sell shares. They can ask the share holders for an influx of cash too.

    As long as creditors get paid he can loan A-Eon as much as he want.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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  • »10.03.16 - 15:13
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4883 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    A question, a little off the current direction of the thread...
    If the bios of the X5000 is on micro SD, could we upgrade the size of the card and put the boot partition for MorphOS on this as well?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.03.16 - 00:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2634 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    A question, a little off the current direction of the thread...
    If the bios of the X5000 is on micro SD, could we upgrade the size of the card and put the boot partition for MorphOS on this as well?


    I think not, it's just another way to store and load the firmware. And why would you *not* want to use a proper, fast SSD for the OS, with real file systems (of your choice), etc?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »11.03.16 - 06:49
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4883 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    A question, a little off the current direction of the thread...
    If the bios of the X5000 is on micro SD, could we upgrade the size of the card and put the boot partition for MorphOS on this as well?


    I think not, it's just another way to store and load the firmware. And why would you *not* want to use a proper, fast SSD for the OS, with real file systems (of your choice), etc?


    Well, one thing has made me shy away from SSDs, they die without warning and are completely unrecoverable.

    Then again, that is true of SD cards as well.

    More to the point, the boot partition of MorphOS is small, so why not have the bios load it from SD after bootstrapping then switch to a medium like you suggested?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »12.03.16 - 02:40
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1392 from 2003/4/13
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb9By-lODgk
  • »28.04.16 - 14:54
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 462 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    A question, a little off the current direction of the thread...
    If the bios of the X5000 is on micro SD, could we upgrade the size of the card and put the boot partition for MorphOS on this as well?


    I think not, it's just another way to store and load the firmware. And why would you *not* want to use a proper, fast SSD for the OS, with real file systems (of your choice), etc?


    Well, one thing has made me shy away from SSDs, they die without warning and are completely unrecoverable.

    Then again, that is true of SD cards as well.

    More to the point, the boot partition of MorphOS is small, so why not have the bios load it from SD after bootstrapping then switch to a medium like you suggested?


    SSDs behave like any HDD. If its bad sectors etc. everything be recovered.

    If you speak of electric shock, I have a PSU and again surge protection before that.
    A high electric shock would any way kill everything, but your SSD paranoia is too much.

    Its fast, usable, bit pricey but heey lightspeed to HDD, USB, DVD, BlueRay, SD card ...

    It would be great to have MorphOS, AROS or OS4 on flash EEPROM but they have put
    different junk on boards instead of that :-) Like I would trade my XENA and Xorro extended PCI-E slot for
    such thing and some big FPGA that could load Minimig core
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
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  • »04.05.16 - 00:55
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4883 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:

    I've mentioned it before, but I'll happily mention it again: When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs. AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense. When such a time does come, expect us to support one desktop motherboard (with one family of CPUs and GPUs) and one laptop. We'll of course make sure it's hardware that's actually available one way or another.


    One board...
    This doesn't worry anyone else?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.05.16 - 13:07
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    Kronos
    Posts: 1981 from 2003/2/24
    @Jim

    What else did you expect ?

    As long it is something easy to find and supporting a wide range of CPUs I don't see much of an issue.

    More reason of concern would be how long it takes from starting on lets say this to release as that might put serious hurdles into sourcing such mobo (which will most likely be discontiued by that time).

    On the laptop front things might get even harder, but besides from basing MorphOS_64 on a linux kernel (like AROS-hosted) I see really no alternativ with the limited resources.


    But don't forget that is really just for the initial release (just like MorphOS at some time only supported one type of PPC Mac), and if one of the key developers decide that he really needs MorphOS4.2 running on his new 2025 MacbookPro I doubt the other would get their pitchforks to stop him.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
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  • »05.05.16 - 14:06
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 326 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:

    I've mentioned it before, but I'll happily mention it again: When MorphOS gets ported to AMD64, we will not be supporting Macs. AMD64 Macs have all the wrong hardware for that to make any sense. When such a time does come, expect us to support one desktop motherboard (with one family of CPUs and GPUs) and one laptop. We'll of course make sure it's hardware that's actually available one way or another.


    One board...
    This doesn't worry anyone else?


    This is a rather old quote, and I think you're maybe misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that we'll only support one motherboard forever. I'm saying that we'll port MorphOS to and support running MorphOS on one specific motherboard (and one laptop) at a time. When that particular set of hardware becomes obsolete, or whenever we feel like it, we'll then pick a new set of hardware to support. Basically we want to avoid the current situation where we support such a large amount of different hardware that it becomes difficult to make sure everything is well supported.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »05.05.16 - 15:56
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2703 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    One board...
    This doesn't worry anyone else?


    I'm surprised to read this kind of comment from you Jim. You have stated on many other occasions how much you trust the decisions of the MorphOS Dev. Team members, so what has changed in your point of view?

    As you and I, and most other MorphOS users have stated in the past, the choices of which hardware to support by the Dev. Team members have so far seemed the best and most logical choices. I expect them to continue making wise choices for x64 hardware, just as they have always done with PPC hardware (with perhaps the only exceptions being support for the SAM460 and X5000, IMO ...).
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »05.05.16 - 22:53
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4883 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Sorry guys, I tend to be somewhat neurotic about things that are important to me.

    And I DO trust our developers to make the right decisions (they have aced it so far).

    Although...if I had the cash I would buy at least a couple of Power8 boards for these guys.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.05.16 - 02:25
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10930 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> the current situation where we support such a large amount of different hardware
    >> that it becomes difficult to make sure everything is well supported

    > the choices of which hardware to support by the Dev. Team members have so far
    > seemed the best and most logical choices.

    Seems at least some MorphOS team members are less confident about the team's past choices ;-)
  • »06.05.16 - 05:59
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 202 from 2015/8/23
    Morphos on x86 will be not binary compatible like on powerpc because x86 cannot work in big endian mode.
    It is stupid to repeat old mistakes.
    Morphos on x86 should have not problems with memory protection, drivers, use of many core, porting.
    It is time to cut off 90% of old API, leave only amiga graphics and gui and use unix as base.
  • »06.05.16 - 15:27
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4883 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    Seems at least some MorphOS team members are less confident about the team's past choices ;-)


    Yeah, like anything involving a group, there will always be some dissent.
    And I myself still like the idea of sticking with Power.
    But that might just be the "sore loser" in me.
    I didn't really dig having to move from 68K to X86 years ago and still think PPCs are adequate for our uses.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.05.16 - 20:18
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4883 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    It is time to cut off 90% of old API, leave only amiga graphics and gui and use unix as base.



    Are you out of your mind?
    UNIX?
    Never.
    Should we ever go there (or Linux) I am out of here.
    And we don't support native Amiga graphics right now.

    We already have a good kernel.
    And Ambient can be retained (and improved), along with some other elements.
    Outside of that, we might as well let our gurus decide.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.05.16 - 20:28
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2703 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> the current situation where we support such a large amount of different hardware
    >> that it becomes difficult to make sure everything is well supported

    > the choices of which hardware to support by the Dev. Team members have so far
    > seemed the best and most logical choices.

    Seems at least some MorphOS team members are less confident about the team's past choices ;-)


    I meant from the users point of view, not for the ease of supporting the OS by the Dev. Team. I am sure that many of the team members have mixed feelings, and regret supporting so many PPC models, as it makes more work for all of them. Their choices have made it easy for any MorphOS user to find affordable, (and in terms of NG Amiga choices, powerful) hardware all around them.

    [ Edited by amigadave 06.05.2016 - 14:36 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »06.05.16 - 20:31
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    I guess they figured that since most hardware are more or less the same supporting them would be pretty straight forward. But every hardware has it's own little quirks regardless. It's easy to look back in hindsight now when we know this.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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  • »06.05.16 - 23:32
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4883 from 2009/1/28
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    Unless the developers have retained at least one of each platform they have ported to, I imagine it is difficult to assure that all previous systems work with each revision change.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.05.16 - 03:24
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 202 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Are you out of your mind?
    UNIX?
    Never.



    Quote:


    We already have a good kernel.



    Are you out of your mind?
    You want to change API to not binary compatible and there still will be problems with software porting?
    New system should be based on UNIX.
  • »07.05.16 - 06:23
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2634 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:

    Are you out of your mind?
    You want to change API to not binary compatible and there still will be problems with software porting?


    MorphOS will *never* go POSIX/UNIX/whatever, anyone with knowledge of the MorphOS developers past view on this knows perfectly well that there isn't even a point in asking this question! It will never happen, and why should it? Sure, there will be some additions to the API, and some changes in rules and assumptions that affects applications environment, like no app will be allowed access to memory outside its allocated space, and that different parts of the system, and different parts of any threaded applications, can be executed on different CPU cores in an asynchronious manner unlike today. Etc, etc. But MorphOS was never about POSIX, never about making another Linux. My experience from past discussion from the MorphOS team, is that they would rather drop it and walk away than going in that direction. They are making *their own* operating system! ;-)

    Quote:

    New system should be based on UNIX.


    The new system will be based upon MorphOS, I think this is a fair and realistic assumption.

    ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »07.05.16 - 10:07
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1070 from 2013/5/24
    From: Federacija Bos...
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Are you out of your mind?
    UNIX?
    Never.



    Quote:


    We already have a good kernel.



    Are you out of your mind?
    You want to change API to not binary compatible and there still will be problems with software porting?
    New system should be based on UNIX.




    Knock yourself out. ;)


    http://repo.arixfoundation.com/downloads/
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »07.05.16 - 11:25
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4883 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Are you out of your mind?
    UNIX?
    Never.



    Quote:


    We already have a good kernel.



    Are you out of your mind?
    You want to change API to not binary compatible and there still will be problems with software porting?
    New system should be based on UNIX.




    No,it should NOT.
    That would result in a monolithic kernel, far lower startup
    times, and and OS with no differentiation from all Linux distros.

    If you want a UNIX base, use AROS hosted.
    Don't request corruption of our OS.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.05.16 - 15:47
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1981 from 2003/2/24
    Basing MorphOS_x64 on linux is the easiest and most obvious way
    While we're at it replacing MUI with QT/GTK is the easiest and most obvious way
    Compared to Wayland CGX is crap anyway

    And now, the name "Morph_OS" just sounds stupid, lets replace it with something sensible.

    I propose "Bluehat Linux" !!
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »07.05.16 - 17:58
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