MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12149 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > if several boards were in the design stage at the same time and one was cancelled
    > how does that imply going backwards ?

    The core lineage goes as follows:

    e500v1 -> e500v2 -> e500mc -> e5500 -> e6500

    Going to the right means forward, going to the left means backward. Seen?
  • »12.10.15 - 00:11
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 760 from 2011/11/30
    So, to recap, we have confirmation of ongoing work about MorphOS NG (I hereby baptize it "MetaMorphOS" and we should all call it this way :P) but without any eta. Given that the first discussions started on Alchimie 111111 (already 4 yrs ago :( ) I pretty much doubt we are going to see it materialize in the next 2-3 years, unless MorphOS Team, decides to focus on it and not split resources on advancing further the dead end PPC line. Well, at least, I personally hope that they will consider taking this path.

    Tabor mobo, might be incompatible with current fpu instructions on software, thus resulting to a degree of slowdown when using it on real world applications. However, I prefer to wait for final announcement. Perhaps the cpu might change.

    The game that will be coming to MorphOS is Wings Remastered? I think I heard that WR will be out for OS4, MorphOS and AROS on the YT stream, but perhaps I am wrong. Who did the port (Daytona again?), when will it be launched? What about the cost? Will we have a digital or physical option for us to buy?

    When will MorphOS 3.10 be coming to public?
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  • »12.10.15 - 10:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12149 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Perhaps the cpu might change.

    Unlikely, as this would mean doing all board design work all over.

    > The game that will be coming to MorphOS is Wings Remastered?

    Yes.

    > I think I heard that WR will be out for OS4, MorphOS and AROS on the YT stream

    Yes, that's what's been announced.

    > Who did the port (Daytona again?)

    Yes.

    > when will it be launched?

    Planned for February 2016.
  • »12.10.15 - 10:26
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12149 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > the incompatibility of the e500v2 core is the reason the UltimatePPC has been
    > put on hold (or cancelled?).

    Interestingly, two years ago and more than one year after the UltimatePPC team announced they would eventually reconsider their choice of CPU, Trevor Dickinson reached out to them:

    http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=919823
    http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=919837

    Any guesses what they talked about? :-)
  • »12.10.15 - 12:00
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 760 from 2011/11/30
    @Andreas_Wolf

    You forgot to quote and approve the new official name that I 've given to MOS NG :P

    Regarding the game, do you have any additional details such as recommended specs (cause Steam reports cpu >2Ghz), cost & pre-order option? Graphically speaking, will it be just like the windows version? How the hell it was ported since it is based on Unity? And last but not least, is there a list of MorphOS compatible flight joysticks? Cause I 'll sure will be needing one :P
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »12.10.15 - 12:04
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12149 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > do you have any additional details such as recommended specs (cause Steam reports
    > cpu >2Ghz), cost & pre-order option? Graphically speaking, will it be just like the
    > windows version? How the hell it was ported since it is based on Unity?

    Unfortunately no. All I know is from there:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2015-10-00032-DE.html
  • »12.10.15 - 12:31
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Uh, because the e500v2 IS a step backwards.
    What part of that didn't you get?
    Of all the alternatives possible, A-eon picks one of the poorest ones.



    I just don't get it. So much of OS4 land is an alternate universe where getting slower and more expensive is an achievement. If you try to make sense of it, you are "trolling".
  • »12.10.15 - 12:47
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    We're probably to the point this question warrants a new thread, but I'll try here first.

    It sounds to me that the X5000 is in the hands of not just MorphOS developers, but at least a handful of beta testers too? This weekend MorphOS was just demoed on the X5000.

    So... Could someone kindly start posting benchmarks? I have a genuine curiosity here. It has been a full decade since the last PowerMac G5, can this X5000 beat one in any category besides power consumption and noise? I'd hope there are no NDAs blocking the posting of such benchmarks.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 12.10.2015 - 08:48 ]
  • »12.10.15 - 13:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Cool_amigaN wrote:
    @Andreas_Wolf

    You forgot to quote and approve the new official name that I 've given to MOS NG :P

    Regarding the game, do you have any additional details such as recommended specs (cause Steam reports cpu >2Ghz), cost & pre-order option? Graphically speaking, will it be just like the windows version? How the hell it was ported since it is based on Unity? And last but not least, is there a list of MorphOS compatible flight joysticks? Cause I 'll sure will be needing one :P


    Daytona has already stated that he will be using his own rendering routines for Tower57 ports to AmigaNG platforms. I would assume that it will be the same for the Wings Remastered port, not a port of the Unity game engine to any AmigaNG platform.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »12.10.15 - 13:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12149 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I would assume that it will be [...] not a port of the Unity game engine to any AmigaNG platform.

    Correct.

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40603&forum=16&start=20#770033
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40621&forum=32#770288
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=797272
  • »12.10.15 - 15:32
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    We're probably to the point this question warrants a new thread, but I'll try here first.

    It sounds to me that the X5000 is in the hands of not just MorphOS developers, but at least a handful of beta testers too? This weekend MorphOS was just demoed on the X5000.

    So... Could someone kindly start posting benchmarks? I have a genuine curiosity here. It has been a full decade since the last PowerMac G5, can this X5000 beat one in any category besides power consumption and noise? I'd hope there are no NDAs blocking the posting of such benchmarks.


    Its a little premature, the port is not (to the best of my knowledge) 100% ready for distribution.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »12.10.15 - 16:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12149 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > this ever-shrinking "market" that is probably already all-saturated by the X1000

    Considering that, according to Trevor Dickinson at AmiWest 2015, the X1000/Nemo has sold out in September 2015, the market does not seem completely saturated at least :-) They will start with a batch of 500 boards with P5020.
  • »19.10.15 - 07:41
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1926 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    The awesome thing about MorphOS on the X5000 is it will be ready to go before an offical release of 4.1FE is! From what I saw of 4.1FE being installed on a beta testers machine this weekend it has a lot of work left to make it a fluid process. It never got installed on the machine the user was setting up.

    This doesnt mean its bad, but it could be the machine had a problem with the board. It would be impressive if MOS came out before and worked as well as it does on the hardware we currently have it on!
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  • »20.10.15 - 18:34
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Qestion is though if A-Eon would release the board with only MorphOS working on it. They might as you don't have to pay for MorphOS to try it out while waiting for their copy of AmigaOS (just like X1000 users got a 4.2 license while using 4.1).

    On the other hand, Trevor is mainly an AmigaOS 4 guy (he doesn't hide or appologise for that) so maybe he will wait anyway. I hope for the first while suspecting the latter.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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  • »20.10.15 - 18:53
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 570 from 2007/7/29
    I geuss they will release the board not without OS4 meaning not before it ships with it. Maybe there will be some updates later on but I can not imagine that they release the "OS4 board" without OS4 running on it. Otherwise they would loose many customers to MOS and as A-Eon is a company closer to OS4 than MOS they will probably wait for it. And as I read MOS does not fully install on it yet too. There are still works to do on the installation process and details. So there is more work for the MOS team as well. Means we do not know which one is earlier ready on it: OS4 or MOS. I think the board will come out when OS4 is ready, maybe when both are at the same time.
  • »20.10.15 - 19:01
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1376 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    On the other hand, Trevor is mainly an AmigaOS 4 guy (he doesn't hide or appologise for that) so maybe he will wait anyway. I hope for the first while suspecting the latter.

    Based on the remarks he made at AmiWest, A-Eon will wait for OS4 to be completed for the X5000 before they ship any mainboards to end consumers, which seems reasonable given that the hardware was designed to run this specific operating systems.
  • »20.10.15 - 19:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Uh, because the e500v2 IS a step backwards.
    What part of that didn't you get?
    Of all the alternatives possible, A-eon picks one of the poorest ones.



    I fear that this impression (or reality) will always trouble the creation of custom hardware for any NG Amiga inspired platform, because the time it takes to design and produce such custom hardware is always going to be measured in many months, if not years, so by the time any custom hardware is announced, there will always be something newer and better announced, or available.

    As Trevor and others have tried to explain, the choice of the P1022 was made due to availability at the time A-Eon's choices had to be made. Hindsight is always going to look better and sometimes, the choice made may not turn out to be the best available when looking backward. It is always a gamble, specially when committing to purchase in quantities such as 500 units for the Cyrus+ boards and CPU's, and 1,000 units for the Tabor boards and P1022 CPU's.

    A-Eon now has to make the best of those choices and hope they can deliver a product that Amiga users will want to purchase. Time will tell if their gamble will be profitable, break even, or lose money due to poor sales. As a friend of Trevor's, I hope that he is successful, but I also hope that he succeeds so that he can continue to go forward and produce future systems for our community. The Amiga community would be a duller place if A-Eon were to fail and close their operations some time in the next few years.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »20.10.15 - 19:15
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1376 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    It would be impressive if MOS came out before and worked as well as it does on the hardware we currently have it on!

    It might very well be impressive but MorphOS 3.10 will feature other improvements than X5000 support. Unless these are ready to be published for all target platforms, 3.10 is not likely to be released.
  • »20.10.15 - 19:19
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1926 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    I wouldnt expect the board to ship without OS4 being ready for it, I just meant it would be awesome to know MorphOS would be ready the day it does ship if things continue as fast as they are.

    Also, here is a real nice show of the X5000 in a custom case I took.

    https://goo.gl/photos/o6kPoFG3ky587Yxk9

    [ Edited by Acill 20.10.2015 - 14:48 ]
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  • »20.10.15 - 21:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12149 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the choice of the P1022 was made due to availability at the time A-Eon's choices
    > had to be made. Hindsight is always going to look better and sometimes, the
    > choice made may not turn out to be the best available when looking backward.

    I wouldn't say it is a hindsight 20/20 thing in this case. In hindsight, the choice of the PA6T for the X1000 probably wasn't the best one (bad availability, too expensive, weaker than expected), but it was the most sensible choice back when the decision was made. With the e500v2-based P1022 I can't think what came over them as the technical implications of attempting to run legacy code on this core had been discussed before (see e.g. UltimatePPC fiasco).

    > It is always a gamble [...] when committing to purchase in quantities such as [...]
    > 1,000 units for the [...] P1022 CPU's.

    Purchasing a fully compatible Applied Micro CPU or waiting for sample availability of the fully compatible Freescale QorIQ T1 would have been much less of a gamble in my opinion.
  • »20.10.15 - 22:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12149 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > what about the PCIe slot? Pavlor say it's v1.0 (250MB/s per lane).

    Yes, that's what Freescale says:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=site:freescale.com+p1022+pcie+1.0a

    Interestingly, AmigaKit claims the following:

    "the A1222 has [...] Gen 2 PCI Express."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40622&forum=2&start=840#772338

    How that could be possible I don't know.


    Edit:
    The press release at http://www.a-eon.biz/news/News_Release_A1222.pdf correctly mentions "PCIe gen 1".

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 02.11.2015 - 00:29 ]
  • »01.11.15 - 20:24
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    Unfortunately, he didn't reveal the specific benchmarks he used nor any relative or absolute figures.


    If you want I can run some specific ones on my X5000, but only under MorphOS control.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »14.01.16 - 09:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    dnetc:

    Code:

    [Jan 16 14:59:34 UTC] Automatic processor type detection did not
    recognize the processor (tag: "MOS:0x8024")
    [Jan 16 14:59:34 UTC] OGR-NG: using core #0 (KOGE 3.1 Scalar).
    [Jan 16 14:59:53 UTC] OGR-NG: Benchmark for core #0 (KOGE 3.1 Scalar)
    0.00:00:16.41 [19,317,474 nodes/sec]
    [Jan 16 14:59:53 UTC] OGR-NG benchmark summary :
    Default core : #-1 (undefined) 0 nodes/sec
    Fastest core : #0 (KOGE 3.1 Scalar) 19,317,474 nodes/sec
    [Jan 16 14:59:53 UTC] RC5-72: using core #0 (MH 2-pipe).
    [Jan 16 15:00:12 UTC] RC5-72: Benchmark for core #0 (MH 2-pipe)
    0.00:00:16.09 [5,160,960 keys/sec]
    [Jan 16 15:00:12 UTC] RC5-72: using core #1 (KKS 2-pipe).
    [Jan 16 15:00:31 UTC] RC5-72: Benchmark for core #1 (KKS 2-pipe)
    0.00:00:16.73 [5,253,923 keys/sec]
    [Jan 16 15:00:31 UTC] RC5-72: using core #2 (KKS 604e).
    [Jan 16 15:00:50 UTC] RC5-72: Benchmark for core #2 (KKS 604e)
    0.00:00:16.38 [5,362,198 keys/sec]
    [Jan 16 15:00:50 UTC] RC5-72: using core #5 (MH 1-pipe).
    [Jan 16 15:01:08 UTC] RC5-72: Benchmark for core #5 (MH 1-pipe)
    0.00:00:16.08 [5,042,926 keys/sec]
    [Jan 16 15:01:08 UTC] RC5-72: using core #6 (MH 1-pipe 604e).
    [Jan 16 15:01:26 UTC] RC5-72: Benchmark for core #6 (MH 1-pipe 604e)
    0.00:00:16.38 [4,950,576 keys/sec]
    [Jan 16 15:01:26 UTC] RC5-72 benchmark summary :
    Default core : #-1 (undefined) 0 keys/sec
    Fastest core : #2 (KKS 604e) 5,362,198 keys/sec
    [Jan 16 15:01:26 UTC] Compare and share your rates in the speeds database at
    http://www.distributed.net/speed/
    (benchmark rates are for a single processor core)


    AmigaMARK:

    Memory: http://morphos.me/benchmarks/AMX5000.txt
    CPU: http://morphos.me/benchmarks/AMX5000-CPU.txt

    nbench:

    Code:

    BYTEmark* Native Mode Benchmark ver. 2 (10/95)
    Index-split by Andrew D. Balsa (11/97)
    Linux/Unix* port by Uwe F. Mayer (12/96,11/97)

    TEST : Iterations/sec. : Old Index : New Index
    : : Pentium 90* : AMD K6/233*
    --------------------:------------------:-------------:------------
    NUMERIC SORT : 608.07 : 15.59 : 5.12
    STRING SORT : 77.587 : 34.67 : 5.37
    BITFIELD : 2.0708e+08 : 35.52 : 7.42
    FP EMULATION : 69.667 : 33.43 : 7.71
    FOURIER : 29189 : 33.20 : 18.65
    ASSIGNMENT : 14.151 : 53.85 : 13.97
    IDEA : 3644.6 : 55.74 : 16.55
    HUFFMAN : 1055 : 29.25 : 9.34
    NEURAL NET : 15.468 : 24.85 : 10.45
    LU DECOMPOSITION : 487.91 : 25.28 : 18.25
    ==========================ORIGINAL BYTEMARK RESULTS==========================
    INTEGER INDEX : 34.345
    FLOATING-POINT INDEX: 27.523
    Baseline (MSDOS*) : Pentium* 90, 256 KB L2-cache, Watcom* compiler 10.0
    ==============================LINUX DATA BELOW===============================
    CPU :
    L2 Cache :
    OS :
    C compiler : gcc version 2.95.3 20020615 (experimental/emm)
    libc :
    MEMORY INDEX : 8.223
    INTEGER INDEX : 8.840
    FLOATING-POINT INDEX: 15.265
    Baseline (LINUX) : AMD K6/233*, 512 KB L2-cache, gcc 2.7.2.3, libc-5.4.38
    * Trademarks are property of their respective holder.


    Stream:

    Code:

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    STREAM version $Revision: 5.10 $
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    This system uses 8 bytes per array element.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Array size = 10000000 (elements), Offset = 0 (elements)
    Memory per array = 76.3 MiB (= 0.1 GiB).
    Total memory required = 228.9 MiB (= 0.2 GiB).
    Each kernel will be executed 10 times.
    The *best* time for each kernel (excluding the first iteration)
    will be used to compute the reported bandwidth.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Your clock granularity/precision appears to be 1 microseconds.
    Each test below will take on the order of 122644 microseconds.
    (= 122644 clock ticks)
    Increase the size of the arrays if this shows that
    you are not getting at least 20 clock ticks per test.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    WARNING -- The above is only a rough guideline.
    For best results, please be sure you know the
    precision of your system timer.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Function Best Rate MB/s Avg time Min time Max time
    Copy: 1288.1 0.124860 0.124212 0.126170
    Scale: 1370.1 0.116996 0.116783 0.117207
    Add: 1802.0 0.133600 0.133185 0.134047
    Triad: 1804.1 0.133476 0.133031 0.133839
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Solution Validates: avg error less than 1.000000e-13 on all three arrays
    -------------------------------------------------------------


    monolith:

    Code:

    Result: 829 objects at 25.0 fps


    RageMem doesn't work atm.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »16.01.16 - 13:08
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