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Tha Sam follow up _is_ the Tabor: Dual core 1.2 GHz priced between 700 EUR and 1000 EUR - unfortunately with an incompatible and slow fpu. Rumours have it a compatible FPU can be emulated though. We'll see. luckily this board is not too important fom a MorphOS centric POV since we have plenty hardware already.
If support is a cheap shot, then welcome. If support will be hard, don't waste development time on it and put the effort better into MorphOS NG.

I quote, especially the last sentence.

>>> WIth the joint resources of A-Eon,Ultra Varisys,Acube and Hyperion and others

>> So has this board been developed by Varisys?

> I can't preempt the official announcement.

Well, you mentioned Varisys in the context of Tabor, so this limits the possibilities :-)

>>> I would bet that it will be a nice board for OS4 .

>> I have severe doubts about that. After all, the incompatibility of the e500v2 core
>> is the reason the UltimatePPC has been put on hold (or cancelled?).

> But the Hardware is what drives changes in software.

Changes can be for the better or for the worse ;-) Except for automotive chips (e200 core), GPR-based FPU and SPE SIMD have been deprecated by Freescale with the advent of the e500mc core.

>don't waste development time on it and put the effort better into MorphOS NG.

Yes, as much as I am loath to admit it, I can't see supporting a board that requires different floating point routines.

And, I would have qualified this with a statement about the continued potential introduction of further e5500 or e6500 core based systems, but I'm not sure that the topic carries as much interest with me as it once did.

NG NG, might as well continue to lead, instead of following.

A-Eon's e500mc core option, the P3041 Cyrus +, was cancelled .


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[ Edited by Spectre660 11.10.2015 - 19:11 ]

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Ah, for some reason I got the impression that the follow-up to the Sam would be a second piece of HW.

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The Sam460cr is €539 (was it ever really available BTW?). So it's not at all "at the same price", far from it.

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Yes, the e500v2 has been confirmed by Christian. He say the FPU is fast, at least on a Linux where the OS and applications has been specially compiled for it. This is of course completely impossible in the case of OS4. And he say that regular PPC Linux works but that the OS must emulate a normal FPU then. Then it won't be fast at all. This is how it must be done by OS4 as well. Anything he say in that post about performance in DebianPPCSPE is irrelevant for OS4.

He say he is surprised by the performance. Probably his specially compiled Linux setup also makes extensive use of the RadeonHD GPU for offloading things like video and whatnot. But isn't the "e500" kind of a slightly evolved/souped-up "G3" and running at higher clock? No Altivec, and in this case no usable HW FPU as well (for OS4). Nothing you do heavy rendering on, in other words?

Speaking of GFX cards, what about the PCIe slot? Pavlor say it's v1.0 (250MB/s per lane). I get as much as the x16 slot only has a few lanes connected, but how many? Pavlor claims 4 lanes. But the data sheet (linked to by Pavlor ) speaks about many controllers but *not available simultaneously* (depends on HW configuration perhaps?), so with the known other features of the Tabor, does x4 lanes for graphics sound reasonable? If so, it should offer about the same GFX bandwidth as the AGP 4x available in most of the decade old Mac HW that most of us use with MorphOS, right?

Well, all in all I think this could have been a nice machine. Had it had a proper FPU. At half its price. And had it been 10 years ago. As it stands, "our" Macs still seem like a far better option in all aspects; power, price, bang/buck, the versatility of models, etc. And MorphOS of course!

"We" have made the most and the best out of what the PPC platform has to offer and are enjoying it fully, "they" are still "chasing the dragon".

Ah, well...

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gotta agree with you there. personally i want a machine that can dual-boot AOS4 and MOS, but i'd rather MOS NG come out sooner if i had to give up one or the other. i really think MOS NG is the future and am terribly excited about it. so, from my point of view, anything that takes development time away from it -- especially for custom boards given their costs -- is something i'd hope the dev team would punt on.

-- eliyahu

>> Except for automotive chips (e200 core), GPR-based FPU and SPE SIMD have
>> been deprecated by Freescale with the advent of the e500mc core.

> A-Eon's e500mc core option, the P3041 Cyrus +, was cancelled .

I know that A-Eon cancelled it, but what has this got to do with the price of fish? It was their own decision to cancel it. And even if cancellation was justified, why should that imply they had to go backwards to the e500v2?

if several boards were in the design stage at the same time and one was cancelled how does that imply going backwards ?

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Uh, because the e500v2 IS a step backwards.
What part of that didn't you get?
Of all the alternatives possible, A-eon picks one of the poorest ones.

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> isn't the "e500" kind of a slightly evolved/souped-up "G3" and running at higher clock?

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6313&forum=11&start=3

> the x16 slot only has [...] connected [...] 4 lanes. But the data sheet [...] speaks about
> many controllers but *not available simultaneously* (depends on HW configuration perhaps?),
> so with the known other features of the Tabor, does x4 lanes for graphics sound reasonable?

Yes, it sounds reasonable to me that one of the three PCIe controllers uses four of the six SerDes lanes.

> it should offer about the same GFX bandwidth as the AGP 4x available in
> most of the decade old Mac HW that most of us use with MorphOS, right?

Yes.

> if several boards were in the design stage at the same time and one was cancelled
> how does that imply going backwards ?

The core lineage goes as follows:

e500v1 -> e500v2 -> e500mc -> e5500 -> e6500

Going to the right means forward, going to the left means backward. Seen?

So, to recap, we have confirmation of ongoing work about MorphOS NG (I hereby baptize it "MetaMorphOS" and we should all call it this way :P) but without any eta. Given that the first discussions started on Alchimie 111111 (already 4 yrs ago :( ) I pretty much doubt we are going to see it materialize in the next 2-3 years, unless MorphOS Team, decides to focus on it and not split resources on advancing further the dead end PPC line. Well, at least, I personally hope that they will consider taking this path.

Tabor mobo, might be incompatible with current fpu instructions on software, thus resulting to a degree of slowdown when using it on real world applications. However, I prefer to wait for final announcement. Perhaps the cpu might change.

The game that will be coming to MorphOS is Wings Remastered? I think I heard that WR will be out for OS4, MorphOS and AROS on the YT stream, but perhaps I am wrong. Who did the port (Daytona again?), when will it be launched? What about the cost? Will we have a digital or physical option for us to buy?

When will MorphOS 3.10 be coming to public?

> Perhaps the cpu might change.

Unlikely, as this would mean doing all board design work all over.

> The game that will be coming to MorphOS is Wings Remastered?

Yes.

> I think I heard that WR will be out for OS4, MorphOS and AROS on the YT stream

Yes, that's what's been announced.

> Who did the port (Daytona again?)

Yes.

> when will it be launched?

Planned for February 2016.

Addendum:

> the incompatibility of the e500v2 core is the reason the UltimatePPC has been
> put on hold (or cancelled?).

Interestingly, two years ago and more than one year after the UltimatePPC team announced they would eventually reconsider their choice of CPU, Trevor Dickinson reached out to them:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=919823
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=919837

Any guesses what they talked about? :-)

@Andreas_Wolf

You forgot to quote and approve the new official name that I 've given to MOS NG :P

Regarding the game, do you have any additional details such as recommended specs (cause Steam reports cpu >2Ghz), cost & pre-order option? Graphically speaking, will it be just like the windows version? How the hell it was ported since it is based on Unity? And last but not least, is there a list of MorphOS compatible flight joysticks? Cause I 'll sure will be needing one :P

> do you have any additional details such as recommended specs (cause Steam reports
> cpu >2Ghz), cost & pre-order option? Graphically speaking, will it be just like the
> windows version? How the hell it was ported since it is based on Unity?

Unfortunately no. All I know is from there:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2015-10-00032-DE.html

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I just don't get it. So much of OS4 land is an alternate universe where getting slower and more expensive is an achievement. If you try to make sense of it, you are "trolling".

We're probably to the point this question warrants a new thread, but I'll try here first.

It sounds to me that the X5000 is in the hands of not just MorphOS developers, but at least a handful of beta testers too? This weekend MorphOS was just demoed on the X5000.

So... Could someone kindly start posting benchmarks? I have a genuine curiosity here. It has been a full decade since the last PowerMac G5, can this X5000 beat one in any category besides power consumption and noise? I'd hope there are no NDAs blocking the posting of such benchmarks.

[ Edited by redrumloa 12.10.2015 - 08:48 ]

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Daytona has already stated that he will be using his own rendering routines for Tower57 ports to AmigaNG platforms. I would assume that it will be the same for the Wings Remastered port, not a port of the Unity game engine to any AmigaNG platform.

> I would assume that it will be [...] not a port of the Unity game engine to any AmigaNG platform.

Correct.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40603&forum=16&start=20#770033
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40621&forum=32#770288
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=797272

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Its a little premature, the port is not (to the best of my knowledge) 100% ready for distribution.

> this ever-shrinking "market" that is probably already all-saturated by the X1000

Considering that, according to Trevor Dickinson at AmiWest 2015, the X1000/Nemo has sold out in September 2015, the market does not seem completely saturated at least :-) They will start with a batch of 500 boards with P5020.

The awesome thing about MorphOS on the X5000 is it will be ready to go before an offical release of 4.1FE is! From what I saw of 4.1FE being installed on a beta testers machine this weekend it has a lot of work left to make it a fluid process. It never got installed on the machine the user was setting up.

This doesnt mean its bad, but it could be the machine had a problem with the board. It would be impressive if MOS came out before and worked as well as it does on the hardware we currently have it on!

Qestion is though if A-Eon would release the board with only MorphOS working on it. They might as you don't have to pay for MorphOS to try it out while waiting for their copy of AmigaOS (just like X1000 users got a 4.2 license while using 4.1).

On the other hand, Trevor is mainly an AmigaOS 4 guy (he doesn't hide or appologise for that) so maybe he will wait anyway. I hope for the first while suspecting the latter.