MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11471 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Seems low-level coders disappeared years ago.

    The Frieden brothers were present at the Amiga 30 years celebrations in Neuss 5 months ago where they told they were currently working on OS4 a couple of hours per week.

    > OS4 Final(!)

    OS4.1(!) Final Edition.
  • »09.03.16 - 07:19
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 663 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    no. it's just postponed because of this (because of OS4 is not ready yet).


    no, MorphOS Team told me that X5000 release has nothing to do with MorphOS release date. MorphOS will be released as soon as it is ready, no matter if X5000 is available or not.
    Pegasos II G4 @1.0GHz, 1GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9200Pro, 160GB+500GB HD, MorphOS 3.13, AmigaOS4.1 FE, MacOS X Panther 10.3.9, Debian 8
  • »09.03.16 - 09:09
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 327 from 2003/4/11
    The release of MorphOS 3.10 is not dependent on anything to do with X5000 availability.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »09.03.16 - 10:13
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @TMHG

    Quote:

    I think this is a myth ...


    I think he is smart enough to realize that the best way to make money is to stay as far away from the NG scene as possible. Especially after saying that he lost a lot of money with the X1000. Yet he stays and invest a lot of more money on equally unsellable hardware. This should suggest he is a geek at heart, not a venture capitalist.
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  • »09.03.16 - 12:31
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    eliyahu
    Posts: 67 from 2011/4/21
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @TMHG

    Quote:

    I think this is a myth ...


    I think he is smart enough to realize that the best way to make money is to stay as far away from the NG scene as possible. Especially after saying that he lost a lot of money with the X1000. Yet he stays and invest a lot of more money on equally unsellable hardware. This should suggest he is a geek at heart, not a venture capitalist.

    why does it matter what trevor's motives are? i'm thrilled he's doing this against tremendous odds, and i appreciate his passion. whether it's for profit or personal reasons or both, we're just customers. why does it matter so much?

    -- eliyahu
  • »09.03.16 - 13:20
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @eliyahu

    Trevor doesn't give you a reason to believe he is isn't doing this out of love so I feel I have to defend him when someone suggest otherwise, that's all.
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  • »09.03.16 - 13:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2700 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @eliyahu

    Trevor doesn't give you a reason to believe he is isn't doing this out of love so I feel I have to defend him when someone suggest otherwise, that's all.


    Oh, I think it's obvious that he's passionate about his Amigaone endeavor. But you said you doubted the endeavor could go bankrupt, and you said that he won't mind loosing the money spent, and Jim can't see a reason to why the X5000 and Tabor could fail. I'm not particularly convinced any of you are right about what you say.

    There has been a long delay between decisions and released OS4 supported products. The X1000 was an example of that. The X5000 project has had at least a 2.5 year lead time, but I believe the ideas about it could have spawned further back when the X1000 entered the market already, and the Tabor as well. Back when it was clear the PA6T based machines was a dead end, but they could sell enough of them to make money. One "big box" and one cheaper entry model.

    But years has passed. And as I said above, I think it's very possible that any assumptions about potential sales of new machines made back then based on X1000 sales could be completely erroneous today. Much has happened (or when it comes to OS4 - nothing at all). It could be that the market for mediocre, extremely expensive PPC HW for OS4 could be both saturated and vaporized today. I think this is kind of plausible actually.

    AeonKit is obviuosly sitting on a big pile of pre-paid, produced motherboards. The X5000 is like the X1000 all over again, no significant improvements, the same 2005 level HW just slightly less insanely priced, and the Tabor has a severe design screw-up that definitely will impact both its performance and its marketability. If big piles of these motherboards remains unsold, or sold at a significant loss just to realize some of the money invested in it, then I think AeonKit would have to be *very* passionate about their "hobby" to start all over again and design yet another set of PPC motherboards. If not, it means the end of line for OS4 HW.

    But to me it looks pretty much like OS4 has reached its own end of line on its own already. When Ben Hermans peddling of €30 digital download copies for Emulators dries up, then what? Well, I guess we'll have the answers to all these questions in just a year or two...

    ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »09.03.16 - 14:24
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @TMHG

    Trevors seems to make enough not to have to worry about A-Eon. But sure, his interest lies in that the AOS 4 port being finished. If not I bet he would be really pissed off :-)
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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  • »09.03.16 - 16:43
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    eliyahu
    Posts: 67 from 2011/4/21
    @Yasu

    Quote:

    But sure, his interest lies in that the AOS 4 port being finished. If not I bet he would be really pissed off :-)

    he won't be the only one.

    -- eliyahu
  • »09.03.16 - 16:52
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Seems low-level coders disappeared years ago.

    The Frieden brothers were present at the Amiga 30 years celebrations in Neuss 5 months ago where they told they were currently working on OS4 a couple of hours per week.

    > OS4 Final(!)

    OS4.1(!) Final Edition.


    A couple of hours a week?
    That explains a lot.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.03.16 - 17:30
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @TMHG

    Trevors seems to make enough not to have to worry about A-Eon. But sure, his interest lies in that the AOS 4 port being finished. If not I bet he would be really pissed off :-)


    The problem with your scenario is that this is not a personal hobby under his own name, it is a registered "Limited" company. While we don't know what the private share structure, there will still be laws to govern how they operate. In the US LLC's (Limited Liability Company) still have basic reporting and corporate governance requirements. I'm sure the 'Limited' Companies are similar. You can't create a company and then just have it's cash balance be a slush fund from your own wallet. At some point the company has to be able to be able to stand on it's own. Generally speaking, when the company is founded one of the principal officer can fund it in exchange for stock, but constantly throwing money at it after that starts off as frowned upon and eventually becomes illegal.

    That's simplifying things, but the general gist.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 09.03.2016 - 14:17 ]
  • »09.03.16 - 18:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11471 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The X5000 is like the X1000 [...] the same 2005 level HW

    DDR3 and PCIe v2 are from 2007 :-)
  • »09.03.16 - 20:03
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > we don't know what the private share structure

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7183&start=932


    Ahh, what do you know. 100% of the shares are distributed, none left in the treasury. Matt Leaman is half owner too. It is even less likely that A-Eon's cash balance is fungible with Trevor's wallet.
  • »10.03.16 - 00:55
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @redrumla

    I don't think there is a law against being not profitable. If it is a share holding company all the company need to do when it's out of cash is to ask it's share holders for more. Because then the company is only accountable to it's shareholders and if they think it's a good idea to invest more money it's perfectly legal. Which is what I think the presumably main shareholder Trevor does.

    Remember the IT bubble? The share holders kept pouring in money into hugely unprofitable companies because they thought one day in the not too far future it would pay off. And most of the companies went belly up once the share holders realised that their "multi billion dollar companies" was worth about as much as a hot dog stand. The share holders had to take the knock-back because it was up to them to decide whether to invest more and more money into it or not. The only thing the companies had to do was not to lie about its revenue.

    Perfectly legal.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

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  • »10.03.16 - 10:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11471 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the presumably main shareholder Trevor

    As indirectly linked to above, main shareholder of A-Eon Technology Ltd. is Matthew Leaman (50%). Trevor and his wife each hold 25% of shares.
  • »10.03.16 - 12:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11471 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    >> Seems low-level coders disappeared years ago.

    > The Frieden brothers were present at the Amiga 30 years celebrations in Neuss 5 months
    > ago where they told they were currently working on OS4 a couple of hours per week.

    "I received a pleasant surprise in my email inbox this morning from AmigaOS Kernel developer Thomas Frieden. [...] Attached to the email was a photo of a vaguely familiar image of a Boing Ball, Hyperion copyright notice and an "insert floppy disk" graphic. [...] I think it means my Tabor board will be mighty pleased"
    http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=8740
  • »10.03.16 - 12:13
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @Andreas_Wolf

    OK, but I doubt it's not Trevor keeping the business floating anyway.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

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  • »10.03.16 - 12:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    @redrumla

    I don't think there is a law against being not profitable. If it is a share holding company all the company need to do when it's out of cash is to ask it's share holders for more. Because then the company is only accountable to it's shareholders and if they think it's a good idea to invest more money it's perfectly legal. Which is what I think the presumably main shareholder Trevor does.

    Remember the IT bubble? The share holders kept pouring in money into hugely unprofitable companies because they thought one day in the not too far future it would pay off. And most of the companies went belly up once the share holders realised that their "multi billion dollar companies" was worth about as much as a hot dog stand. The share holders had to take the knock-back because it was up to them to decide whether to invest more and more money into it or not. The only thing the companies had to do was not to lie about its revenue.

    Perfectly legal.


    That's not how it works, you are confusing privately owned companies with publicly trading company. A-Eon shares are 100% distributed between 3 officers, there are none left in the treasury to sell. A publicly traded company such as those during the Dot-com bubble sold shares during an IPO, and held a majority of shares in the treasury. When these dot-com companies needed more funds they would issue "secondaries" by taking shares from the treasury and selling either directly into the market or 2 a 3rd party at a discount. There is a world of difference between a public and a private company.

    Trevor can "loan" A-Eon cash, but that loan is supposed to be repaid at some point. This is not something that can happen forever, at some point A-Eon will have to be profitable.
  • »10.03.16 - 12:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    They don't have to sell shares. They can ask the share holders for an influx of cash too.

    As long as creditors get paid he can loan A-Eon as much as he want.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »10.03.16 - 14:13
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    A question, a little off the current direction of the thread...
    If the bios of the X5000 is on micro SD, could we upgrade the size of the card and put the boot partition for MorphOS on this as well?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.03.16 - 23:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2700 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    A question, a little off the current direction of the thread...
    If the bios of the X5000 is on micro SD, could we upgrade the size of the card and put the boot partition for MorphOS on this as well?


    I think not, it's just another way to store and load the firmware. And why would you *not* want to use a proper, fast SSD for the OS, with real file systems (of your choice), etc?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »11.03.16 - 05:49
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    A question, a little off the current direction of the thread...
    If the bios of the X5000 is on micro SD, could we upgrade the size of the card and put the boot partition for MorphOS on this as well?


    I think not, it's just another way to store and load the firmware. And why would you *not* want to use a proper, fast SSD for the OS, with real file systems (of your choice), etc?


    Well, one thing has made me shy away from SSDs, they die without warning and are completely unrecoverable.

    Then again, that is true of SD cards as well.

    More to the point, the boot partition of MorphOS is small, so why not have the bios load it from SD after bootstrapping then switch to a medium like you suggested?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »12.03.16 - 01:40
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb9By-lODgk
  • »28.04.16 - 13:54
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 472 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    A question, a little off the current direction of the thread...
    If the bios of the X5000 is on micro SD, could we upgrade the size of the card and put the boot partition for MorphOS on this as well?


    I think not, it's just another way to store and load the firmware. And why would you *not* want to use a proper, fast SSD for the OS, with real file systems (of your choice), etc?


    Well, one thing has made me shy away from SSDs, they die without warning and are completely unrecoverable.

    Then again, that is true of SD cards as well.

    More to the point, the boot partition of MorphOS is small, so why not have the bios load it from SD after bootstrapping then switch to a medium like you suggested?


    SSDs behave like any HDD. If its bad sectors etc. everything be recovered.

    If you speak of electric shock, I have a PSU and again surge protection before that.
    A high electric shock would any way kill everything, but your SSD paranoia is too much.

    Its fast, usable, bit pricey but heey lightspeed to HDD, USB, DVD, BlueRay, SD card ...

    It would be great to have MorphOS, AROS or OS4 on flash EEPROM but they have put
    different junk on boards instead of that :-) Like I would trade my XENA and Xorro extended PCI-E slot for
    such thing and some big FPGA that could load Minimig core
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Vampire Standalone v4
  • »03.05.16 - 23:55
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