> 8x PCIe v2 lanes = 16x PCIe v1 lanes. So it's the same bandwidth, right?

Right, but while in theory there shouldn't be compatibility problems, some PCIe v3 cards have been reported to not work in PCIe v1 slots.

> the PCIe 1 slot [...] only has four dedicated lanes

Yes, the x16 slot is connected by only four lanes, as was announced last year.

> and four switched lanes, shared with the other PCIe slots
> (i.e. the 16x, 4x, 1x, 1x, and "Xorro" slots)?

According to the block diagram on page 8, the four switched lanes have nothing to do with the x16 slot, but are shared via PCIe-PCIe switch between x4, x1, x1 and Xorro slots as well as PCIe-PCI switch (for two PCI slots).

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So the X5000 PCIe x16 slot only has 4 PCIe v2 lanes connected, effectively meaning 1/2 of the theoretical bandwidth of the x16 PCIe v1 slot of the PowerMac...?


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Ah, I managed to scroll past that block diagram!

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Unless you really want the Boing Ball engraved case, I would suggest that you only buy the motherboard for the X5000, not a complete system, to save money, and to get yourself a case that can accept all lengths of video cards. Getting a complete system that has the OS already loaded and tested on the hard drive or SSD is appealing, but you are more than capable of assembling and setting up an X5000 system for yourself, and can get exactly what you want, instead of getting what the retail seller wants to put together for you.

>Right, but while in theory there shouldn't be compatibility problems, some PCIe v3 cards have been reported to not work in PCIe v1 slots.

Its more complicated than that.
I haven't finished discussing this with AMD, and using later cards in a v1 slot will probably need some experimentation.
As I've said before, the Radeon HD 6570 will work in a G5.

BUT, there actually may be problems using v3 cards in v2 slots as well.

This is a partially quote from a message I received from AMD tech support today, "I believe that the HD7000 series GCN1 GPUs should work with the older PCI-E 2.0 revision Motherboards, however you may encounter issues if you attempt to use anything newer as we have had reports from customers that had compatibility issues when using the new RX400 and 500 series with PCI-E 2.0 motherboards."

SO, NXP lists the PCIe controllers in the P50xx as PCIe 2.0/3.0, but what has Aeon/Varisys implented?
If those slots ARE only v2, they may not work with future AMD based video cards.

AND, does AMD's statement about v2 apply to v1?
If so, the G5 could potentially support the 7000 series cards, if not the 6000 is pretty good (and probably the best we are likely to get support for in the next driver upgrade anyway).

Its a story that is continuing to evolve, but I personally am moving forward on putting together an X5000 (although I do have a Quad 2.5 GHz G5 sitting in the wings).

> So the X5000 PCIe x16 slot only has 4 PCIe v2 lanes connected,
> effectively meaning 1/2 of the theoretical bandwidth of the
> x16 PCIe v1 slot of the PowerMac...?

Yes, exactly. And also half the bandwidth of the X1000 PCIe v1 x16 slot.

'theoretical bandwidth'...hmm, in the real world, not terribly significant.

Again, what is worrying me more is will these boards work with later video cards?
So far, no one has even shown one working with a GCN gen2 card.

> NXP lists the PCIe controllers in the P50xx as PCIe 2.0/3.0

They list it as "2.0/3.0" in one place and as "1.1/2.0" in others (like fact sheet and product brief). I firmly believe that "3.0" is not correct.

> what has Aeon/Varisys implented?

Their press release linked to above clearly states "Gen2".

> does AMD's statement about v2 apply to v1?

I think v3 cards not working in v2 slots also won't work in v1 slots, and that v3 cards working in v2 slots not necessarily work in v1 slots.

>I think v3 cards not working in v2 slots also won't work in v1 slots, and that v3 cards working in v2 slots not necessarily work in v1 slots.

Seems probable.

So the G5 likely tops out at the 6000 series, whereas the X5000 supports the 7000 series, most of the R5, 7, and 9 cards, and possibly some higher cards.

Sam460 is PCIe v1.1 and the X1000 is PCIe V1.x (unsure which rev) and both work with 7000 and RX series cards. A Sam440 with a PCIe-PCI bridge card tops out with the 6000 series but it's suggested that the limitation is in Uboot rather than the bridge.

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Thanks Rob,
We've been tossing this around, and it seems likely that AMD's tech support staff is just throwing around qualifiers out of over caution.

I haven't been able to find any logical reason that even v3 (or v4) PCI-E cards shouldn't work in a v1 slot.
The SAM440 isn't supported by MorphOS (only OS4), and PCI-E to PCI bridge components (at least for video cards) aren't supported yet (unless one considers to PCI-E to AGP bridge chip used in some of the cards we support, and that's not the same thing AFAIK).

> both work with [...] RX series cards.

Really? ;-)

http://www.amd.com/en/rx-series

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Yeah...that's not the info I'm getting out of AMD.
What they are saying is that the RX cards may very well NOT work with older slots, and that they have customers reporting issues using this combination.

And a quick search of the internet does seem to confirm that some users are having problems.
Whether its a hardware or firmware issue isn't easy to figure out, but it does look like we're going to have to work this out on our own.

In any case, everything looks good up to GCN gen1, which we don't even have support of yet.
So our concern is probably premature.

AND AMD's conditional statements could just be cover for an inability to address all possible combinations of older and newer hardware.
After all, they threw in qualifiers for pre v2.0 slots when used with GCN cards, a combination that seems to be working.

Well here's to the hope of MorphOS being released soon for the X5000. I just had an order placed to build me one! Fingers crossed its as nice as my G5 is when I get it next week some time.

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Congrats! (I think)

Surprising that they will get it built, tested and shipped out to you in only one week, but I imagine that sales of the X5000 aren't so hot that they are literally flying off the shelves and into buyers hands.

Will you be bringing your new X5000 to AmiWest this year?

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Sadly no. It's looking like I'll be out of town for work over that weekend.

It's out for delivery, any word on MorohOS for it?

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Oh nooooooo!

That is a real shame. No way to reschedule the work commitment to a different day?

They shouldn't be scheduling you to work weekends, but this is "America", where the greedy rule, and don't give a sh!t about their employees.

Sorry to read that you won't be at AmiWest this year.

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I work FOR the government, lol. I've left Intel. I've got an x5000 though!

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Yes, but you are an outside contractor, aren't you? So, not actually a direct employee of the government, but still subject to there whims regarding when they want you to work.

Actually, I have heard that contractors working for the government or military part of the government, get paid very well, for the work they are doing (hence the huge lobbying efforts by all the military contractors in Washington, to keep the "War Machine" well oiled). That is far off topic though, so we shouldn't get into a discussion about it here.

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Not a contractor, I work directly for the Government. I am a federal DOD civilian. GS-12 Step 4.

Googled GS12 step 4.

https://www.generalschedule.org/GS-12

Internet is amazing. :)

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Haha, bit off topic, sorry about that. Look in LA county for the actual salary if you were interested. We all get a bonus rate depending on the part of the US we are in.


Back on topic, is any mention of the status for MorphOS posted any place at all?

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I haven't seen anything posted regarding a definitive release date for 3.10, but I was hoping that it would be released prior to, or during the Oct. AmiWest Show. I'd like to see it running on an X5000 while I am at the show, but I have no knowledge regarding if it will be ready by then, or not.

Did you post your thoughts/review on the X5000 with AmigaOS to one of the other sites Paul?

I got very bored lately and longing for some Boingball back in my life...

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No Steve I havent, but I was thinking about doing it. It honestly feels like it did back when we first showed off the release of the Pegasos II together that first year it was out at AmigWest. Its still quite a bit behind MorphOS is feel and stabiliety, but as far as AmigaOS goes, well it does have that good old feeling.