Quick test with the 2x2.3GHz G5 running a 3.10 beta (so any improvements to power management in the past 5.5 years does not apply).

Idle: 211W compile: 215W standbye: 2.3W

Needless to say this won't return to daily usage anytime soon....

>> In light of the old discussion from some years back, do you have
>> access to any PowerMac G5 and can measure standby there?

> 2x2.3GHz G5 [...] standbye: 2.3W

Thanks. This is the exact middle of the 0.9...3.7 W range mentioned back then (as opposed to the 30+ W some claimed to have measured).

@Jacad: I think I'm not far away to yours: keep in mind, that monitor and WLAN-hub consumes about 60-70W too. Will check PMac allone tomorrow.
Surprising for me is, that OF seems to have no real or efficient powermanagement (compared to OSX or even MorphOS) - did'nt expect that!

Could be, that I have to test another G5 with different OF, because this one goes (in OF console) after 3 minutes allway to full power blowing (thermal calibratioon is OK).

Measuringsystem is calibrated UNITEC EIM-812 performance measuring device (CATII) - should be exact enough.

Powermac7,3 (G5 2x1,8 GHz) with ADC 17" Studio Display and MorphOS 3.17, with dnetc running: 177 W.

No comparison to OSX, since this machine is MorphOS-only.

Quote:

Measured the Efika years ago: https://via.bckrs.de/MorphOS/bench_en.html (sd card should lower the uptake quite a bit)

Also on that site, measurements for the mac mini and pegasos1.
I can confirm your conclusions from the total energy uptake POV as written in this thread already https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=12759&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&start=25

@Amigaharry2

There is no powermanagment in OF so it is normal to go into jet-mode after a while.

The cooling on these is good enough to have the CPU(s) at full blast without damage for forever in contrast with current (x86) CPU that would easily kill themselves running full tilt on their stock coolers.

> I can confirm your conclusions from the total energy uptake POV

What's notably off though is the standby consumption of the iMac G5, where you measured 11 W and Kronos only 3.3 W.

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No, depends on Firmware.

PM G5 (OF V4):

PM 2,3 GHz : 5.1.87f allways silent
PM 2,3 GHz : 5.2.4f1 blowing like a jet
PM 1,8 GHz : 5.1.5f0 allways silent
PM 2,0 GHz : 5.1.8f7 blowing like a jet

Seems that OF Versions 5.18f7 and above dont manage that as good as older FW-revisions.
It's also very interessting that this 2 blowing G5 have that backside blower-problem under MorphOS too, which I discribed in another thread. Northbridge becomes much more hot, than the other two G5. Astonishingly under OSX it does'nt occour.

Quote:

The device I've bought is really cheap so I wouldn't trust it to 100% precise.

Difference can be up to variations in the PSU (and they decay of the notorious caps) or maybe some "wake on LAN" feature that may exist and be activated.

FYI just did my old 27" (2560x1440) Dell and it claims 0.0W for standby and 37.3W when used. Given that is almost 1.5 times the surface of the 22" with just 2W more I am starting to suspect that the 22" is just bad.

Tested now a G2 2.0GHz/ Dual_Cpu, Radeon 9600P, HD 1x2TB, 1xDVDRW, 1x IDE2CF, 2GB RAM
No other el. consumers

Off: 20W
OF: 250W (allways)
MOS: 220W - 230W (Idle - Wayfarer loading/Playing Youtube)
OSX: 150W - 230W (Idle - Firefox loading/playing Youtube)

> G2 2.0GHz/ Dual_Cpu [...] Off: 20W

That's a remarkable (and daunting) difference to Kronos' 2.3 W.

Yeah! Can't explain it, tested twice: 20W!

Just take note that some power measuring devices get completely confused if there's a bad power factor. PSUs tend to have pretty bad PF.

With the release of 3.18 (or the 1st 3.19beta to be more precise) I decided to check up on some mothballed systems:

PMac G4 QuickSilver 1.8GHz Radeon9000:
idle 55W compiling 83W standby 10W
idle with 15" ADC 75W
-> far to high standby to be connected to mains 24/7, despite the slower CPU and smaller screen it pretty close to the iMac and it still lacks the USB2,SBLive! and Voodoo3 I had in there

Quote:

I suspect the stand by values may be a bit off due to measurement errors (blind currents , Phase Shifts). Would need some in depth Evaluation…
But eventually I think it‘s a good idea to keep these machines behind a mechanically switchable power outlet like this https://www.pollin.de/images/1200x1200x90/I451056.1-goobay-Schutzkontakt-Zwischensteckdose-mit-Schalter-16-A-weiss.jpg

Quote:

I use a powerbar with switch since 2nd screen is of similar vintage (2008 I'd guess) and there is no point in having it on when the iMac (or PMac and Pegasos2 before) is off.

Did anyone provide numbers for the AGP vs. PCIe PMacG5 off/standby power ? At least I was under the impression that the AGP models were drawing way more power in standby than the later PCIe ones.
If it would really be about 20W in standby for some models, it definitely would make a considerable ~170kWH over a year just for staying in standby ....

@cyfm
Quote:

Wether that is accurate is hard to tell

Quote:
PMac G4 1.8 GHz is pretty nice frequency.

Please, can you tell me what exact CPU do you use, and what Core Voltage?
I have PMac G4 MDD now and two pairs of spare CPUs: MC7457 RX1267LC and SC7457 RX1267LC and I have in plan to exchange CPUs and overclock it.

Thank you for any experince.


P.S. and if this is power consumption thread, with 1600 MHz original MDD CPU XC7455B RX1400PF has power consumption cca 63 W and my spare 7457 only 33 W. So I will save some Watts

[ Edited by sailor 22.05.2023 - 08:06 ]

@sailor

Thats a single G4 Sonnet card that came with the PMac I bought when I thought I had burned the dual 1.8GHz Sonnet that had used before. Turned out if was just the motherboard so now the dual one is collecting dust.....



This should be the one.

@ Kronos
thank you. So it should be some version of 7457 ( probably the last, the same I have, 1267 MHz ) and modded VCore, which is unknown for me.
Because this Sonnets are rare, I thinked you did CPU swap and play with overclocking and VCore. My mistake.

Fortunatelly I have nearly all necessary info from macrumors, last piece I missing is exact increased VCore for 1.8 GHz. So I will try 1.75 GHz + some calculated VCore value.

>> This should be the one.

> So it should be some version of 7457

Sonnet Encore/ST G4 1.8 GHz (SG4-1800, SG4-1800L) use slightly overclocked MPC7447A (or more likely MPC7447B/C).

Quote:

According this page Sonnet Encore 1.8 GHz used also 7457, probably the last fastest type MC7457 RX1267LC. This CPUs can run at frequencies 1.5-1.8 GHz. Also in manual from Kronos link is L3 cache visible ( but there lower freq ).
If Kronos has 7457 or 7447 can be easily checked by L3 presence (7457 has, 7447 hasn't).

But all this is irelevant details, point of message was, that I ask for real experience with VCore + overclocked 7457. And if Kronos made no modification, he not touched anything.

>> Sonnet Encore/ST G4 1.8 GHz (SG4-1800, SG4-1800L) use slightly
>> overclocked MPC7447A (or more likely MPC7447B/C).

> According this page Sonnet Encore 1.8 GHz used also 7457

Thanks for the reference, but I believe it to be incorrect. Up to 1.4 GHz is definitely 7457 yes, maybe even 1.6 GHz is (doubtful), but 1.7 and 1.8 GHz are definitely later CPUs (7447A/B/C or maybe even 7448). I doubt they sold 42% overclocked CPUs.
See there for another reference that even says it has 7448: https://beta.ivc.no/wiki/index.php/PowerMac_G4_Upgrades#Upgrade_candidates

There're also some hints in the original Sonnet press releases for the 1.7 and 1.8 GHz versions in 12/2004 and 08/2005, respectively:

"These cards are based on the latest and fastest PowerPC G4 processor (used in Apple’s current PowerBook line) [...], and feature 512K of on-chip L2 cache."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060821124418/http://www.sonnettech.com/news/press/pr2004/pr120704_sg4_prcdrop.html

"These cards, based on the latest and fastest PowerPC G4 processor (used in Apple’s current PowerBook line) [...] feature 512K of SRAM on-chip L2 cache"
http://web.archive.org/web/20061111032204/http://www.sonnettech.com/news/press/pr2005/pr080105_prcdrp.html

Apple switched their PowerBooks from 7447 to 7447A in 04/2004 and to 7447B in 01/2005, so this cleary hints at those G4 iterations being used by Sonnet in their 1.7 GHz upgrade in 12/2004 and their 1.8 GHz upgrade in 08/2005.

I have a hunch that the SG4-1800 came with 7447B and the SG4-1800L with 7448, but I have no proof on that. It would explain why for the 1.8 GHz model, the official source hints at the 7447B but another source mentions the 7448.

> in manual from Kronos link is L3 cache visible ( but there lower freq ).

Yes, I don't expect them to have changed the product pictures in the instruction manuals for later L3-cache-less versions just because the chip arrangement on the PCB is different, as it has no bearing on the installation process.

> If Kronos has 7457 or 7447 can be easily checked by L3 presence
> (7457 has, 7447 hasn't).

745x processors can be deployed without connecting actual L3 cache to the corresponding pins. The PCB doesn't even have to have any footprint for L3 cache chip. In this case, any 745x CPU acts exactly like the corresponding 744x CPU. But I'm with you that in the case of the Sonnet Encore/ST G4 cards, 745x comes with L3 cache deployed.

I am not insist on 7457 with Sonnet 1.8 GHz single. I just looking for real info about overclocked 7457 VCore. Information if Sonnet had 7447 or 7457 is redundant for this question. Of course can be useful for somebody who search for exact Sonnet type.

Quote:

Yes, 7457 can be connected without L3 cache. For example some AmigaOne XE CPU modules has 745x without cache chips. But it makes no big sense in case of Sonnet - 7447 had these times higher default frequency and probably was cheaper. And L3 cache gives great benefit with certain tasks ( like compiling ) see here. There several posts, graph is #171.
And if slower Sonnets with single CPU has L3 cache for sure (picture in manual) and their design was made for L3, very probably L3 was also in 1.8 GHz version, if there was 7457 CPU.