Erm, like I said before, PCMCIA is blacklisted in current MorphOS - while you can make drivers for AP Extreme for models that use it, it's currently impossible to use the PCMCIA-connected AirPort cards.

> Dual 1.25GHz G4 MDD model that is NOT a FW800, as it was the last
> G4 PowerMac model that was made which used the original Airport cards,
> instead of the Airport Extreme cards.

Actually, the *last* PowerMac G4 model with original AirPort is the single 1.25 GHz MDD 2003 model that was released along with the first PowerMac G5, i.e. after the PowerMac G4 FW800.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4#DDR_models
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_1.25_mdd.html

> A single 1.25GHz G4 cpu model would work just as well

Yes, that would be the MDD 2003 referred to above.

Quote:


I assumed from your statement above, that if Neil wants to work on a 3rd party driver for PowerMacs, the Team would work with him and "Un-Blacklist" the PCMCIA slot and help resolve any problems that exist which are the cause for it being blacklisted in the first place.

Edit: @all members,

Please raise your hand if you would like to see wireless support via the G4 PowerMac's PCMCIA slot & original Airport cards?

1. AmigaDave

[ Edited by amigadave on 2011/3/31 8:08 ]

2.8 is nowhere close to a release, so it might take a long time before PCMCIA could be allowed - that is, if we manage to solve the problems it causes.

Quote:

That is okay, I have confidence in Neil and the Team to solve the problems and complete the Airport card driver over what ever time it takes. Neil doesn't even have a G4 PowerMac to run MorphOS2.x on yet, but I will help him find one.

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Sorry, I nearly forgot. I'm in Cork, Ireland (where some of the G4 PowerMacs were made BTW). I might have a quick check locally as well, as shipping would be steep.

Quote:

I'm not too concerned about general performance (I have a Peg-II already).

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Thanks, but shipping wouldn't have been dirt cheap

Yes, shipping would be costly. Hopefully we can find you a G4 PowerMac closer to where you live and a few other MorphZone.org members that live in the UK and EU can help you look for one.

Please contact members of the MorphOS Development Team directly to ask them about getting a beta version of MorphOS2.x that has the "Blacklisting" of the PCMCIA Airport slot removed, or how ever else they want to handle helping you to work on completing the work of enabling the use of the original Airport cards in G4 PowerMacs while running MorphOS2.x, as I don't think they appreciate me getting in the middle of this potential project. I have selfish motivation for you completing this work, as I already have an original Airport card in my G4 PowerMac and I think that this work will also lead to a future possibility of getting support for the PCMCIA slot in the G4 PowerBook, which I also own.

I will help in any way that I can, but it looks like all I can do is cheer you on until a bounty is set up for this project. Then I can support you with a donation and trying to talk other MorphOS2.x users into also donating to this project's bounty.

I will also keep an eye open for any G4 PowerMac's closer to where you live, but if I find one for free here that fits your needs, I would not be opposed to helping pay for part of the shipping to get it into your hands.

What about support for a usb device instead? I think there are even usb devices using the prismII chipset.
This would avoid the missing support for pcmcia and be useful on more systems at the same time.

Show which USB wireless NIC's are Prism2 compatible and I will try to find one to test. I did not know that any existed. Time to practice some advanced Google-Fu.

I can provide a Quicksilver Powermac G4 with Airport card for development purposes if needed. Shipping from UK should be quite reasonable.

@Ruud,

I hope Neil Cafferkey sees your post and contacts you. If not, could you send him a PMail to offer the system for development?

If This work would anyway help towards getting wireless for the Airport on the MacMini or for a usb dongle then I will contribute to the bounty

> If This work would anyway help towards getting wireless for the
> Airport on the MacMini

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6042&start=44

> Can support for WPA be included??

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57885

Now that Neil Cafferkey has developed WPA support for the Prism2 driver, I hope the MorphOS Dev. Team members will look into opening up the functionality of the Airport slot in the G4 PowerMacs, so Neil can complete a Prism2 driver with this WPA support for MorphOS2.x. Currently it only appears to support AmigaOS 68k and OS4.x.

I also hope that they will allow use of Prism2 compatible PCMCIA slot wireless network cards in the G4 PowerBook, when MorphOS2.x support is finally released for the G4 PowerBook, as there will be no support for the Airport Extreme wireless cards inside the G4 PowerBooks that will be supported, but existing Prism2 wireless NIC's that are already in use in A1200's & A600's could work with Neil Cafferkey's MorphOS driver, and I have no doubt that Neil will update the MorphOS Prism2 driver to include the WPA support, if it is possible.

[ Edited by amigadave 26.05.2011 - 19:57 ]

I think it would be much easier to take a Prism2 pci-card to get wireless on the Powermac. Why not contact Neil and ask him what it would take to do that for MorpOS ? It would take zero effort from MorphOS development compared to activating the pcmcia slot in the G4's.

You also would have to hack a regular pcmcia card to make use of the wireless antenna in a G4, without it reception would be very bad. I did test this on MacOSX with a USB dongle connected to the internal port of my USB2.0 pci card ..it worked but it received far more better on the outside of the machine.

According to Neil Cafferkey, the original Airport wireless NIC's are Prism2 compatible cards, so hacking a different Prism2 compatible card would not be necessary. The Airport Extreme cards are not Prism2 compatible though, so if you have a FW800 MDD PowerMac you would have to use a PCI to PCMCIA adapter card, or a Prism2 compatible PCI NIC.

Obviously I don't know the extent of the trouble supporting any Apple PCMCIA slots will cause for the Development Team, but I feel that it is work worth doing, as it should also lead to support of the PCMCIA slot in the G4 PowerBooks, and having the ability to use a Prism2 compatible wireless NIC PCMCIA card in a MorphOS2.x supported laptop is a highly desirable thing. Unless someone comes up with a MorphOS2.x driver for one or more models of USB wireless NIC's in the near future, I figured that using Neil Cafferkey's Prism2 driver would be the quickest, easiest, cleanest way to get wireless networking for MorphOS2.x for the G4 PowerMacs and hopefully also for the G4 PowerBooks too, when they are finally supported by MorphOS2.x.

One or more of the MorphOS Dev. Team members said in the past (IIRC, in this thread) that they saw no point in supporting wireless networking if all we had was WEP support and there were no support for WPA. Now that Neil Cafferkey has completed some work on providing WPA support to his Prism2 drivers, I had hoped that the Team would reconsider their opinions on this issue and perhaps work with Neil to complete the work to give us all wireless networking.

I wonder if the Airport NIC for the MacMini is the same as the ones for the G4 PowerMac's and G4 eMac's, and if there will ever be support for using them under MorphOS2.x? I would imagine that currently the G4 MacMini's Airport card is blacklisted in MorphOS2.x, the same way that the PCMCIA slot of the G4 PowerMac's and G4 eMac's are blacklisted.

> I think it would be much easier to take a Prism2 pci-card
> to get wireless on the Powermac.

Yes, that's exactly what I outlined some weeks ago in another thread:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=7791&start=27

> I wonder if the Airport NIC for the MacMini is the same as the
> ones for the G4 PowerMac's and G4 eMac's

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6042&start=44

> I would imagine that currently the G4 MacMini's Airport card
> is blacklisted in MorphOS2.x

No, according to jacadcaps AirPort Extreme is not blacklisted:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6042&start=33

> the PCMCIA slot of the [...] G4 eMac's

There's no MorphOS supported eMac with any form of PCMCIA.

Quote:

There was no mention about the form factor of the Airport card inside the G4 MacMini, or mention of it being an Airport Extreme on the page that the above link takes me to, unless it was a different page in that thread, in which case I am not going to search through the whole thread that that link takes me to searching for your answer to my question. I am quite sure that the Airport card inside my G4 MacMini is not a PCMCIA card, like the Airport cards used inside most of the G4 PowerMac's and G4 eMac's. It is probably a mini-PCI type of card, or some other form factor, but my question was about it being the same as the PCMCIA cards so that the same drivers from Neil Cafferkey could be used with the G4 MacMini, if it were not blacklisted in MorphOS2.x. In other words, is the Airport card inside any of the G4 MacMini computers Prism2 compatible? Edit: Just completed a search on Apple.com and see that all Airport cards inside MacMini's are Airport Extreme, not original Airport cards, so my question about them being Prism2 compatible is moot.

Quote:

Is the Airport inside all G4 MacMini's an Airport Extreme? Edit: I see that according to Apple the answer is yes.

Quote:

Have you looked? The 1.25GHz G4 eMac that I gave away as a prize at last year's AmiWest 2010 Show had an Airport card inside and it was the same exact form factor as the PCMCIA card inside my Dual 1.25GHz G4 PowerMac. You could say that the G4 PowerMac's do not have PCMCIA slots, just Airport slots inside, but they are physically the same form factor, so the G4 eMac's, at least the one I had, also have Airport slots inside that are physically the same form factor as a PCMCIA slot. So, I disagree with your statement that there is no MorphOS supported eMac with any form of PCMCIA slot.

Edit: this is strange because the information on Apple's support pages shows the Airport inside the 1.25GHz eMac to be an Airport Extreme (unless it was different in different models of 1.25GHz eMac's). I am sure that the eMac I had, had an Airport card inside it that was in a slot the same as the slot inside my G4 PowerMac, a PCMCIA form factor slot, as I was tempted to remove it before I gave the system away, so I could sell it, or use it in another G4 PowerMac later.

[ Edited by amigadave 27.05.2011 - 04:54 ]

> There was no mention about the form factor of the Airport card inside the
> G4 MacMini, or mention of it being an Airport Extreme on the page that
> the above link takes me to, unless it was a different page in that thread

Look closer. All information on the kind of AirPort in MorphOS supported Mac mini, PowerMac G4 and eMac is in the very first posting on the page the link takes you to. That's why I chose that link. (The supporting links from there however don't work anymore since earlier this year due to the MorphZone reorganization but they're not necessary to make my point.)

> I am quite sure that the Airport card inside my G4 MacMini is not a PCMCIA card

Correct. That's what the posting I linked to says as well.

> like the Airport cards used inside most of the G4 PowerMac's
> and G4 eMac's.

According to Wikipedia the last three eMac generations (of which only the last two are supported by MorphOS) use AirPort Extreme, which is not PCMCIA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMac#Specifications

Apple supports this claim:

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP85
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP44

> It is probably a mini-PCI type of card

Yes, AirPort Extreme is electrically Mini PCI as said in the posting I linked to.

> my question was about it being the same as the PCMCIA cards so that
> the same drivers from Neil Cafferkey could be used with the G4 MacMini

AirPort Extreme is not AirPort in a similar way Mini PCI is not PCMCIA. Regarding the chipset compatibility of AirPort Extreme cards vs. original AirPort cards see:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6042&start=14

> if it were not blacklisted in MorphOS2.x.

As I said, according to jacadcaps AirPort Extreme is not blacklisted in MorphOS.

> is the Airport card inside any of the G4 MacMini computers Prism2 compatible?

See above.

> Is the Airport inside all G4 MacMini's an Airport Extreme?

Yes. That's what the posting I linked to says, and Wikipedia as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini#Specifications

>> There's no MorphOS supported eMac with any form of PCMCIA.

> Have you looked?

Only at the listed specifications at various places (see above), not inside a real machine.

> The 1.25GHz G4 eMac that I gave away as a prize at last year's AmiWest 2010
> Show had an Airport card inside and it was the same exact form factor as the
> PCMCIA card inside my Dual 1.25GHz G4 PowerMac. [...] the G4 eMac's, at
> least the one I had, also have Airport slots inside that are physically the same
> form factor as a PCMCIA slot.

Strange. Are you sure that this 1.25 GHz dual-G4 PowerMac was not an FW800 model (in which case it would have been Mini PCI, not PCMCIA)?

> So, I disagree with your statement that there is no MorphOS supported
> eMac with any form of PCMCIA slot.

That's understandable taking into account what you just told about your 1.25 GHz eMac. On the other hand, this means you don't only disagree with me but with Apple and Wikipedia as well ;-)

Edit:

> this is strange because the information on Apple's support pages shows
> the Airport inside the 1.25GHz eMac to be an Airport Extreme

Exactly :-)

> unless it was different in different models of 1.25GHz eMac's

Not impossible, but highly unlikely, as even the previous eMac generation from one year before came already with AirPort Extreme:

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP98

> I am sure that the eMac I had, had an Airport card inside it that was in a slot
> the same as the slot inside my G4 PowerMac, a PCMCIA form factor slot

See my question above regarding this PowerMac possibly being an FW800 model.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 27.05.2011 - 15:00 ]

If I do a search on Ebay for "Apple airport pci", a lot of "compatible" cards are showing up. So these are all PRISM2 based ? And does the 68k driver already work with MorphOS ?

I'am not sure why we are concentrating on the original PCMCIA airport.

Anyway get the man a powermac and a license for a native MorphOS version. I'm happy to contribute and to buy the driver afterwards.

Edit... I see Neil has a peg2, so writting MorphOS drivers for PCI and maybe USB can't be a problem ?


[ Edited by Oepabakkes 27.05.2011 - 22:19 ]

Yes, that's exactly what I outlined some weeks ago in another thread:

The biggest problem i have with using another PCI card is I'm out of slots (if I keep one allocated for an SCSI or SATA controller). I even went out of my way to find a single slot R400, so that when support for that is available I would lose any more expansion capability. I could see the utility in Airport support (although my wired connection is more than adequate).

> If I do a search on Ebay for "Apple airport pci", a lot of "compatible"
> cards are showing up. So these are all PRISM2 based ?

If I search for this string on ebay.be I get 11 non-international results right now:

- 7 PCIe AirPort Extreme cards -> apparently for Intel Macs
- 4 PCI AirPort Extreme cards -> seem to be PCI cards with Broadcom chipset

Conclusion: None of these cards seems to be based on Prism2 chipset.
(Besides, I don't think this search string makes much sense anyway as a Mac wouldn't ever detect a PCI bus attached card as an original AirPort card even if it has Prism2 chipset.)

> I'am not sure why we are concentrating on the original PCMCIA airport.

As explained in this thread ad nauseam: cards for PCMCIA can be based on Prism2 which we already have a driver for. This could provide WLAN on PowerBook G4 as long as we miss Broadcom chipset drivers. Besides, using the built-in original AirPort in PowerMac G4 (except FW800) would save one PCI slot.

Quote:

At least one person understands why this is important to me and should be important to other MorphOS2.x users. Yes, there is already a MorphOS2.x driver for the Prism2 NIC's written by Neil Cafferkey. Neil has also just completed adding WPA support to the Prism2 drivers for Amiga68k and AmigaOS4.x, so there should be no problem to also add it to the MorphOS2.x Prism2 driver. having Airport support for the G4 PowerMac is not that important as there are other options, but by supporting the Airport slot in the G4 PowerMac, it is most likely that we could also get support for the PCMCIA slot in the G4 PowerBooks when MorphOS2.x is released for them. Since there is already support for the PCMCIA Prism2 wireless NIC cards, why not allow work to begin to use them in both the G4 PowerMac's (except the FW800 models) and also have it working upon the initial MorphOS2.x release of support for the G4 PowerBook's? There does not appear to be anyone working on supporting the Airport Extreme inside the G4 PowerBook's, or any other MorphOS2.x supported Mac model, so why not work on the easiest solution that will provide us with a wireless NIC for our Laptop MorphOS2.x systems (when we finally get them supported), as there is not much fun having a laptop MorphOS2.x system if you have to have it tied to a router with an Ethernet cable all the time to access the Internet.

As for the eMac I had, I am sure it had a PCMCIA slot inside, but since I no longer have the system, I can't prove it to anyone. I took it apart to replace the hard drive (a difficult task that required a lot of disassembly) and clearly saw, removed and re-installed the Airport card that was inside of it. It was identical to the Airport card that I currently have inside my non-FW800 G4 PowerMac, so it was not an Airport Extreme. I can't explain the difference between my system and the documentation on Apple's support site and the wiki you linked to.