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In fact there are 256MB cards which work without problems with (recent due to the fact that 9600 has not been supported before) MorphOS. I use a Radeon9600Pro 256MB in my MDD PowerMac which maps it's memory as linear 256MB PCI/AGP aperture (as it should be).
The whole point about those R92xx 256MB cards that only support 128MB is that those map their memory space into physically seperated 128MB apertures and it's a mess to unify those apertures again. And in fact, you don't gain much from those additional 128MB with a MorphOS system, anyway. That's basically why I did not put any efforts into mapping the full range. It still might happen in a future release, though.

@pega-1

How much effort would it be to map those extra 128MB as Fast-RAM ?

Sure it wouldn't be really fast, but it should make an Efika just that much more usefull......

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In fact, I already added the LOWMEMPROFILE option to the MorphOS 2.5 Radeon driver which does not keep a backup "fast" memory copy for video memory bitmaps and which is automatically activated for EFIKA if you use a >= 128MB video card. This already saves quite a bit of system memory if you use a lot of screens/graphics.

> Dual g4@ 733 digitial audio

733 MHz Digital Audio is single G4. The only dual G4 Digital Audio is 533 MHz.

To be honest, I was too lazy to check, does it really matter?

> does it really matter?

It's up to you to decide if the difference matters to you. In a MorphOS context the number of CPUs surely won't make a difference, but once running MacOS or Linux as secondary system it would to me at least.

> there are 256MB cards which work without problems with (recent due to the
> fact that 9600 has not been supported before) MorphOS.

Thanks for clarification.

> The whole point about those R92xx 256MB cards that only support 128MB is that
> those map their memory space into physically seperated 128MB apertures

Do you know if there're any 256 MiB Radeon 9250 cards with linear 256 MiB aperture mapping?

> you don't gain much from those additional 128MB with a MorphOS system, anyway.
> That's basically why I did not put any efforts into mapping the full range. It still might
> happen in a future release, though.

That would be nice because I guess there're currently no plans for 3D support on the 9600. Btw, what about the 9800? AFAIK it's already supported in 2D mode. Do you know if there're any 256 MiB Radeon 9800 cards with linear 256 MiB aperture mapping?

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Noisier? The MDD might be, but I can't even hear my Quicksilver running. Physical size is a non-issue to me, Powermacs are still smaller than my PC. And, once again, lets point out that the Powermacs have expansion slots. What isn't included can be added and the video card is upgradable.

I'm thrilled you're so satisfied with the Mini, I want more.

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As Andreas pointed out, even the early G5's support PCI-x. So, the Pegasos, and almost all Powermacs (G4 and G5) would support the same PCI expansion cards using the same drivers.
Therefore the Pegasos and the Powermac do have quite a bit in common. In theory it should be possible to move most of the expansion cards from a Peg to a Powermac.

I think I thought of a solution:

If the main problem is lack of a Quicksilver, has anyone thought of using the bounty system to help MOS devs pay for developing on a specific machine? I know theres the general donation option, but for a specific system, such as the Powermac QuickSilver, it may help fund development on a specific system, such as getting the machine itself, and such. of course, certain rules would have to be enacted, such as its within the general plan of the team, etc. ? Just some food for the thought

> If the main problem is lack of a Quicksilver

I don't think so. A working Quicksilver can be bought off eBay for 50 to 100 EUR. Laire once said that the income generated by MorphOS sales is also used for getting "new" machines to port MorphOS to. And less than 100 EUR is a bargain I'd say. So I really can't imagine money being an obstacle to getting MorphOS ported to Quicksilver.
If the matter would be MorphOS support for the AmigaOne X1000, then I'd agree with you maybe ;-)

A stock MDD sounds like a leaf blower mating with a jet engine. On the other hand the Quicksilver and earlier powermacs (digital audio etc.) are pretty darn silent.

My MDD came with a busted power supply so when I was replacing the circuit board with a standard ATX one I put a speed control on the fan. Honestly, I couldn't really imagine using it with the fan running full blast.

so, while a stock MDD is a bit faster than a Quicksilver it isn't the best option for someone wanting a quiet system. Also, the Quicksilver is much of the time half the price of a mac mini so it is a much better value for some; especially those that want the expansion as Jim mentioned.

Hopefully we'll see support support eventually for the reasons stated above. Just like Jim I originally thought Quicksilver support was alluded to.

PowerMac G4 MDD and FW800 are very very very powerful (more then Mac Mini, Emac ...etc...) give a look here http://amiga.ikirsector.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=13185
Also PowerMac G4 Quicksilver is very poweful.
The PowerMac G4 MDD and FW800 could be the "Pegasos 3 G4" system, for powerful, expansions and the better AGP slot (could be possibile to use new HD AGP cards if flashed for Macintosh and if there are drivers per Macintosh and MorphOS).
I'm ready to buy a licence of MorphOS 2.6 for my PowerMac G4 dual @1420 FW800.
(there are also Sonnet CPU cards Dual G4@1800 for MDD and FW800 here http://www.sonnettech.com/product/encore_mdx_duet.html )

@pega-1
Do you plan to support in 2D and 3D in the future ATI 9800 and ATI 9600 in PowerMac ?

regards

[ Edited by Divinity on 2010/6/13 23:22 ]

Once support for the first G4 PowerMac model is complete enough to be released to the public, then it might make sense to start asking for support of additional G4 PowerMac models. Before then, I think all this talk about which models are going to be supported is a waste of time and bandwidth.

In fact, even after the initial release of MorphOS support for the MDD G4 PowerMac there will probably still be additional work and bug fixes needed to be done to more completely support the MDD model, which will take some time away from working on MorphOS support for other G4 PowerMac models, such as the QuickSilver model(s). Also, with each new release, work must be done to continue supporting all previously supported hardware platforms, such as the Pegasos1&2, Efika, G4 MacMini's and now the G4 eMac, so with each new supported Mac model, there is more work to be done on each new release to continue supporting them all.

Hopefully support for the MDD FW800 PowerMac will be released very soon and the team will announce that they plan to support the QuickSilver PowerMac model and/or G4 PowerBook next. Personally, I would prefer the 1.67GHz G4 17" PowerBook to be the next model supported by the MorphOS Dev. Team after support for the MDD FW800 G4 PowerMac is completed, but everyone has their own preferred choice.

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Only partially true here. With a limited expansion machine, like eFika or Mini G4, very little work is needed as far as drivers and hardware support goes after all the built in HW is supported, and as far as I can tell, hardware support is the most difficult out of all things to do.

What I'm trying to say is, some models have such limited expansion that almost all the continued work on them will be:
Making sure revisions to code don't break existing features

Other than that, I see it as, if nothings broken on the mini and efika models, the devs have nothing to fix, so only recompilations for new OS revisions and testing are needed, on the other hand, the Pegs, PowerMAcs and future desktop machines have so much expansion taht the devs I can foresee will never stop writing new drivers for new video cards, sound cards and disk controllers etc.

Yes, you are right of course, but I would imagine that there is at least a small amount of work to insure that new versions of MorphOS continue to work on previously supported hardware. Also, it would depend on what kinds of changes were made to the new version of MorphOS. I am sure that there are owners of MacMini's that would still like to have support for their built-in wireless and bluetooth adapters some day, instead of using an ethernet bridge to wireless adapter. Also, there is, or may be additional work that still needs to be done to correct the connection speed of the ethernet connector on the MacMini, so my point is that the more models that are supported, the more work is needed to maintain and continue to improve each of them. I just haven't expressed it clearly as it is in my head.

I hope that the MorphOS Dev. Team can grow with more talented programmers to help them keep up with all their work and allow them to support even more models. I am glad that they have just recently released a new sdk, which will hopefully help more native MorphOS programs to be written. We have a better performing OS than "the other guys", why don't we have more third party programmers and programs than they do?

To answer my own question:

> Do you know if there're any 256 MiB Radeon 9250 cards with
> linear 256 MiB aperture mapping?

It seems there are:

http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=384261 (Google translation)

OS4.1 has the same issue with Radeon 9250 cards only using half of the 256 memory, I remember one of their developers (Rogue, probably) saying he had one card that gave the full memory, all the others only giving 126. Possible that it maybe fixed with an updated, but that it was low priority.

My Peg2 has this issue in MorphOS/amiga OS 4.1 and Debian Linux for that matter. unlike 32mb I've never actually had any problems with 128MB of Chip graphics ram, but it's slightly irritating it's not all been used.

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Interesting reference. From the look of these cards, a card that isn't based on the reference design might have a continuous 256MB aperture.

BTW - Has anyone had a problem using a specific version of a 9200 or 9250 based card? The only reason I bought a card based on the reference design was to make locating the one resistor that has to be moved (or removed) easier.
I wasn't aware that anyone had experienced problems. The only card I wouldn't recommend for re-flashing is the 9600 as Apple's version uses a specific kind of memory found on only some 9600s (and Apple 9600s are common and fairly inexpensive).

[ Edited by Jim on 2011/1/11 20:47 ]

[ Edited by Jim on 2011/1/11 20:49 ]

> those map their memory space into physically seperated 128MB apertures
> and it's a mess to unify those apertures again. [...] I did not put any efforts into
> mapping the full range. It still might happen in a future release, though.

Others tried and failed:

http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?p=3040#p3040

;-)