Hi Amigadave,

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Wow, that's really kind of you! Yes, I'd love to take you up on the offer. I actually live in Vancouver, BC, so shipping shouldn't be too bad at all.

Just to clarify, this X800XT has been re-flashed so that it should work in my Dual G5?

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No, it has not been re-flashed yet, but there are instructions online and referenced somewhere in a thread on this site, on how to flash it while installed in your G5 PowerMac. If you have trouble finding the ROM image needed, or the instructions on how to re-flash the video card while installed in your G5 PowerMac, ask here and we will help you find what you need to know.

Send me your mailing address in a private message here, and I will calculate the postage cost, then you can send me the postage amount via PayPal as a gift, so they don't take out fees, and I end up getting less than what is needed to mail the card to you.

Awesome, I just sent you a PM. And yes, pointers to ROMs and instructions would be greatly appreciated.

BTW - my PowerMac is a Dual G5 1.8GHz at 7,3 with four memory slots. I believe the current graphics card is sitting in an AGP slot. Will the X800XT fit okay?

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Yes, no problem. But you'll need an additional Molex connector to power it. I'd suggest getting a Molex splitter and stealing some current from the SuperDrive.

Also, be aware that the built in ROM chip may be only 64k (while full Mac ROM requires 128k), so you might have to use a "reduced Mac ROM" file and sacryficing some features (like DVI output?) unless you replace the chip.

Yes, you should be fine.
Many X800XTs have a 128K rom, and the reduced rom will work, although it may not perform as well as a genuine card.
The first R500 card that Pega-1 worked with was a reflashed FireGL X3 that thought it was am X800XT, but since then everyone has stuck with genuine Apple X800XTs.
If you wait long enough you can eventually find one at a good price.

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I think he is only taking this card from me because it is free (except for shipping), as a temporary solution, until he can find a real "Mac Edition" Radeon video card to replace this one. If you and others here with experience in re-flashing an X800XT could point him to the correct online download location of the ROM image he should use, plus the utility to do the actual re-flashing, I am sure he would appreciate the help. I myself have never tried re-flashing a video card when installed in my G5 PowerMac.

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Sure thing, Dave. Here's the link with the needed ROM files and some instructions how to flash. I'd recommend getting AtiFlash 3.10 or 3.15 - I tried to use 4.17 first and it didn't see my card at all. Then it turned out that it has romsize 1000 (64 kB). I've flashed nevetheless, using "reduced Mac ROM" and the result was blank screen, no matter MorphOS, OSX or OF. Then I've found a guy that replaced the ROM chip with 128k one and flashed it with "full" Mac ROM. Unfortunately when trying to install it in my PowerMac I've accidentaly broken off some of the card capacitors near the AGP connector. The card works, but gives some artifacts in 3D games and I'm not sure if it's because of faulty ROM or the broken capacitors. I need to recap the card and see what happens now.

OK, I got my flashed Radeon X800XT from the guy that replaced the ROM chip. So far it looks like success - both DVI and D-SUB work, OF works, OSX works, MorphOS works. No artifacts whatsoever discovered. I'll keep on testing (and benchmarking) the card.

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Who is this guy who replaced the ROM chip for you and what file did he use to flash it?

I would be interested in having this done, if it is not too expensive, and will begin looking for a Windows/Linux edition X800XT to purchase at a low price, if shipping the video card, plus the cost of this person replacing the ROM chip is not too expensive, to make the whole cost more expensive than just buying a Mac Edition X800XT for $125 U.S. dollars.

I contacted a guy in the USA that has many Windows/Linux version of the X800XT which are brand new, and which he is reflashing, but using the reduced size ROM file, as he is not replacing the ROM chip with a larger ROM chip to match or exceed the size of the ROM chip on the real "Mac Edition" X800XT video cards. I asked him if he could do the ROM chip swap, so the correct ROM image from a real Mac Edition video card could be used, but did not receive a reply to my question from him.

I'm guessing that the shipping to and back from the person you used to swap the ROM chip on your X800XT lives somewhere in Europe, so the shipping costs will make this option unrealistic for me. Still, it would be great to buy one of those brand new X800XT video cards, and then have the ROM chip swapped and the real Mac Edition ROM file flashed to it.

Well, I just sent a re-flashed PC X800XT to Jacek today.
So we can check with him once it arrives to see how well that solution works.
I like the idea of swapping out the ROM chips, but it sounds like something that would require some talent.

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It was Architect1200 (from Poland) that's doing some hardware tinkering with classic stuff mostly, but he has a great dose of skill and knowledge when it comes to card reflashing. Nevertheless it was a "blind shot", because he doesn't have a compatibile Mac. Luckily it went smoothly enough. All in all it cost me around 10 Euro for the card (purchased on local auction site, in USA they may go even cheaper I guess) and probably another 10, maybe 15 (including postage cost) for chip resolder and reflash. Unfortunately oversees shipping ruins the economics of that (maybe it would make more sense to buy a card here, reflash it here and then send it to USA if you can't find anyone to do it on your side of Atlantic).

Alas! We need to know for sure that the game is worth it, i.e. the card works to it's best and I'm in the process of finding out (comparing it with Radeon 9800 Pro). If it doesn't live to our expectations the whole operation is senseless.

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Heck of a question there.
It shouldn't perform worse than a 9800 (the X800XT is basically similar with twice the pipelines).

I don't think you are going to find X800XTs on this side of the Atlantic for less than you paid.

Does anyone know where we can get the 128K rom chips from?
I know people that can do that kind of soldering.
And you don't need a Mac for re-flashing, that works better on a PC anyway.

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Certainly. But you do need a Mac to check if the flashing did work properly :)

It is hard for me to guess if my intermittent problems booting MorphOS3.9 on my G5 PowerMac have anything to do with the use of my video card, or the problem lies elsewhere. If I do buy a "Real" Mac Edition X800XT to replace my Radeon FireGL X3 that has been re-flashed, I might find that I still have the same problems of the boot process halting mid-stream, or not beginning at all. When I do get MorphOS3.9 to boot successfully, I don't notice any graphic artifacts or other video card problems.

Edit: I doubt that the X800XT performance will be that much faster than my FireGL X3, that I would notice.

[ Edited by amigadave 11.09.2016 - 13:33 ]

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Yep, I doubt it too.
And having sent you the FireGL X3, I feel some sense of responsibility for its reliability (or lack there of).
The one I sent Pega-1 died some time ago.
And since those cards, I've switched to recommending only Apple cards as there does seem to be issues with cards relying on reduced bios'.

Yasu received the first Apple X800XT I sourced for a MorphOS user.
And until jacadacaps asked specifically for a flashed PC card, I hadn't revisited the idea of using re-flashed cards.
We'll have to see how that works out.
If it doesn't, I will replace that with an Apple card.

If anyone can find a source for the appropriate 128K rom chips that could be used in modifying PC X800XTs, I'll find someone who can handle the soldering.

[ Edited by Jim 11.09.2016 - 17:09 ]

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Aren't
these suitable?

[ Edited by koszer 12.09.2016 - 10:52 ]

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I will have to check those out.
If that work, they look fairly simple to mount.
Thanks.

Anyway, if you haven't seen that yet - here's an article (in french, but Google Translator does the job) about reflashing PC gfx cards to use with Mac and MorphOs.

Anyway, now I'm not so sure about the link I gave you earlier. It might not be 128 kB, but 128 kb capacity. Better look for the ones signed "25P10" like in the article, or here. They seem to have 1 Mb of capacity (that - as I believe - translates to 128 kB)

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Yes, one megabit=128 kilobytes.
And, again, great reference on the rom chips.
Unfortunately it looks like PC X800XT pricing is going up.

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Nah, I can get an All-In-Wonder X800XT for 30 zł (that'd be like 8 Euro?) plus shipping.

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All-in-Wonder cards don't flash properly.

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OK, then it's an ordinary X800XT for 15 Euro (plus shipping).

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Hopefully someone in Poland will snatch that up.
Its a great price, and that could be a Platinum Edition card.
I have one of those (and it is a PE), but its missing one SMT capacitor.

Don't feel responsible for any trouble with the FireGL X3 you sent me Jim, as you never let me pay you for it, after me asking several times what amount I could send to you, or asking what other bit of hardware you could use in exchange. As I wrote earlier, the video card might not have any problems, as I can't pinpoint where my intermittent booting problems are caused by an unknown source.

I need to tear down my 2.7 GHz G5 PowerMac to check the thermal paste on the CPU's, and double check the coolant level, to make sure it is full, with no air bubbles in it, that would cause it to over heat, due to improper coolant circulation. MorphOS3.9 reports very high temps when running, but the fans don't ramp up, and there does not seem to be much heat coming out of the exhausted air from the case, but I am still nervous about running it, until I can get the MorphOS reported temperatures down to what other users are reporting as acceptable running temps.

Since I have several other licensed MorphOS machines I can use, my motivation to tear down the G5 has been low, but I would like to get it done before next month's AmiWest Show.

As for sourcing the correct replacement BIOS ROM chips, I would still be interested, as the "Old Mac Guy" appears to have a supply of NOS PC X800XT video cards, which could be transformed into Mac Edition X800XT's, if we can find someone with the skills to upgrade the ROM chips, and then re-flash the card with an original Mac Edition ROM file.

The chips look pretty simple to install, and they are cheap.
I'm looking for someone with a steady hand right now.


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