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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:50 ]

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:42 ]

> some of the LimePC UBooks are Atom-based, so if that's your logic
> for your conclusion that the Bing can't be a rebranded LimePC, it's
> erroneous.

You are right in this. I stand corrected, thanks.

> You're not living up to your reputation as the link master.

I'll catch up on this ;-)

http://www.limepc.com/bookp10a.shtml seems to be the Atom based LimeBook that Cherrypal were going to rebrand as "Bing".

> And wow, "probably rebranded?" You're really going out on a limb
> there. After all, there's at least at 0.00000014 percent chance Max
> Seybold is running a motherboard fabrication press and plastic mill
> out of his apartment. Consider being more cautious in your
> statements, eh?

You don't need to run your own "motherboard fabrication press and plastic mill" to sell your own non-rebranded netbook. There are companies out there which you can pay for doing the manufacturing side of things for you. That really wouldn't count as rebranding in my book.

> I'm well aware that the Efika is based on the 5200B

I'm aware that you're aware. The reason I added the "'s 5200B" was just that in your sentence you were comparing a CPU to a mainboard whereas you really wanted to compare two CPUs, I guess.

> which requires a gfx card.

Yes, the Efika 5200B requires a gfx card. But a mainboard with MPC5200B wouldn't necessarily require a gfx card, namely if it has an onboard gfx chip.

> As I am that the device Genesi once announced was NOT a 5200B, as
> it had onboard gfx.

Why should onboard gfx mean that the CPU couldn't be MPC5200B? What about a mainboard with MPC5200B and an onboard gfx chip? In fact, Genesi once announced exactly that (MPC5200B plus onboard Volari gfx chip), and you very well know that fact. At least you would if you read and understood what I wrote.

> And if you look back in these threads

Which I did.

> you will see me originally discussing the device as one with
> onboard gfx

You're still playing dumb, right? In said thread, you were originally discussing a fantasy and not even announced nor planned Genesi device with both MPC5121e and onboard Volari gfx (which would result in two redundant onboard 2D/3D gfx cores). Is it that you simply cannot grasp the fact that there were plans/announcements by Genesi for an MPC5200B based device with onboard Volari gfx chip as well as later plans/announcements by Genesi for an MPC5121e (with on-chip PowerVR gfx included) based device, but *no* plan/announcement for your fantasy device?

> hence not the 5200B.

This conclusion is pure nonsense. See above.
Why do you think that MPC5200B plus onboard gfx chip is impossible when you at the same time fantasize about MPC5121e plus redundant onboard gfx chip? Care to explain this "logic"?

> The CherryPal is different from the 5200B.

Yes, a computer is definitely different from a CPU.

> It's better.

If you mean that the C114('s mainboard) is better than the Efika 5200B or that the MPC5121e is better than the MPC5200B, I'm completely with you.

> Granny's comment the last time (or was it the time before last?)
> you mischaracterized me was right in its generalities.

No, it was not. See my reply to his comment. Furthermore, I don't think I mischaracterized you.

> But I think it was incorrect that the device Genesi worked with and
> announced that became the CherryPal was based on the 5200B.

He didn't state anything like that. His comment wasn't about the device that became the Cherrypal C114.

> Agreeing with Granny on one point does not mean I agree with
> everything he says or that we had the same breakfast that morning.

In my book, citing a certain part of someone's posting that states alleged factual information (as opposed to pure opinion) and answering that part with "thanks" clearly classifies as agreeing with all alleged factual information he stated in that very part.

> If he fell short, he fell short.

His bio at the Carbonflow website BBRV linked to didn't read exactly that way ;-)

> He'll be back.

For now, his bio was taken off.

Google cache:
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:www.carbonflow.com/about_carbonflow.php
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:www.carbonflow.com/files/MSeyboldJoinsCarbonflow.doc

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:41 ]

> OMFG heart attack! You admitted you were wrong!

...like I did numerous times already here on MZ. And to quote myself from the other thread:

"We're all wrong from time to time, even me ;-)"

Not just that Cherrypal are back with a revised Atom based Bing netbook and the "new" XBurst (MIPS) based Africa netbook, as reported by Tronman, they also have upgraded their MPC5121e based C114 nettop to new heights, naming it the C120 while retaining the price:

http://www.cherrypal.com/secure/product_info.php?products_id=1
http://www.cherrypal.com/products.php

Compared to its predecessor the C120 has:
- twice the RAM amount
- twice the SSD storage amount


Edit: changed Cherrypal store URL.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2010/10/6 8:36 ]

Quote:

Alright, the later might not be difficult, but adding more RAM should, because it's soldered onboard. So new CherryPals are actually being manufactured? Or they always had this amount of RAM, but crappy system software was just able to use half of it?
By the way, its $250 price seems outrageous, compared to other offerings, even from the same "vendor", such as that cheap laptop: It comes with battery, keyboard/trackpad and screen, definitly looks "more" product than that little desktop black box that still requires a keyboard/trackpad and screen.

> So new CherryPals are actually being manufactured?

I don't know. Maybe it's stock that was manufactured in the past already, or it's no stock at all and will be manufactured sometime in the future.

> Or they always had this amount of RAM, but crappy system software was just
> able to use half of it?

Seems unlikely. The manufacturer says:

"Memory:256MB(512MB optional)"
http://www.limepc.com/x1.shtml

So it seems Cherrypal just made use of this option.

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:35 ]

Quote:

So do the people working for supposed "partner" companies of Cherrypal. Cherrypal should consider paying these companies.

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 25.04.2011 - 07:34 ]

@Velcro_SP

after using a G4/1.5Ghz I don't want to go back to "low power" machines.

Don't get me wrong, Efika is nice and can be used as small desktop machine thanks to MorphOS but MorphOS on a G4 makes me drool.

Any next-gen hardware should be more powerful than Mac Mini G4 or PegasosII/G4. MorphOS Team is doing the right thing supporting G4 Macs instead of cherrypals/limepeecees with Articia-like abilities and slow cpus. IMHO supporting most of G4s including fastest powerbook/ibook is a good idea. I would love to see MorphOS on a G5 but it doesn't matter, with 1.5Ghz G4s at affordable prices users won't need them right now.

Efikas have an advantage compared to these cherrythings/limestuffs and you can run MorphOS on it. Moreover, you can fit a SerialATA card, install linux and have a very nice NAS at home that downloads using mldonkey and serves media through mediatomb. With the other cheaper solutions you can't have the safety of a RAID and you can't fit so many big HDs.

> they hawk a WinCE quasi-laptop w. 64 megs RAM for $99

In case you mean the Africa: It has 256 MiB RAM and comes with a flavor of Linux. Other OS options might be under consideration.

@ Velcro_SP

Quote:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6196&forum=11#61482

More precisely (the post_id was missing in your URL, but you gave it in the hash): here.

It's a very, very interesting read. It reveals how some "companies" are just blurb an nothing else. That's why I'm almost surprised that the CerryPal/LimePC even exists.

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:56 ]

@ Velcro_SP

Quote:

There is another side to every story, obviously. In terms of bias, I have concluded quite a while ago that you are not willing to view Cherrypal for what it truly is.

When you were provided with information about x86-based products that offer either comparable or better power consumption (computer + display) than the Cherrypal 5121e-based product, you dismissed those for quite a while because they did not fit into your worldview.

You also refused to accept that Cherrypal deliberately *lied* about the real maximum power consumption of their product. I know *for a fact* that they have been warned about this long before they delivered the first boxes to buyers, yet they made the *conscious* decision to keep lying about the whole thing.


Quote:

It takes almost no effort whatsoever to do what Cherrypal have done. The are just a small non-exclusive reseller of products developed and manufactured by other people. Except for paying to have their logo put on a few units, they are hardly different from the one reseller on ebay who is importing original LimePCs to North America and Europe.

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:53 ]

Quote:

Indeed! And they will actually be *usable* and able to act like a net-top. Hell, a <40Wt Atom+ION will be able to play 1080 movies, and it could actually be used for infinitely more things than just checking email and chat on IRC. I could actually use one for development!

Quote:

"more like"? "Suspect"? "probably"? "may well be"? LOL, your arguments are overwhelming and on the edge of hilarious.

Seriously, I do share your "green" thinking about low-power devices, but there are plenty of low-power devices out there that do more and cost around the same. I've seen x86 netbooks that cost $250, they may suck, but they're definitely better choices.

@ Velcro_SP

Quote:

No, I think the fact that you own one is exactly why you fail to look at the company rationally. You appear to take any criticism of Cherrypal Inc. as criticism of your past purchasing decision.

Quote:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9993813-1.html
"The other major benefit of that is it sucks a very low amount of power, 2 watts max, Seybold says."


Quote:

The vast majority of these X86-based net-tops happen to provide vastly superior performance. Who is comparing apples and oranges now?


Quote:

I will refrain from addressing your personal insult. Why don't you ask meet.mrnrg at AmigaWorld how many millions he had to invest to import Limebooks from thousands of miles away and sell them via ebay.

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:46 ]

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 08:44 ]

Quote:

*I* am lazy to check *your* *roughly estimated* figures? Interesting point of view.

Quote:

I don't have to, I know they consume more than the 5121e cherrypal, there's no doubt about that. On the other hand, I also know that they smoke it in performance metrics.

Quote:

(not exactly a nettop, but close)
http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/NorhTec-Gecko-Surfboard/

1Ghz x86 Soc at $99, consuming 5Wts (even if it's a lie, it cannot be much more than that). Not a bad choice for someone who wants to use it for exactly the same reasons the cherrypal was made for. Really you should read the news sometimes, technology has evolved since 2007.
About green thinking, I've never ever claimed that the x86 nettops/netbooks use *less* power than the cherrypal. So I do agree with you on that matter. But my point was, and still *is*, that apart from power consumption, there is NO other compelling reason to buy a 5121e-based computer -in fact at first I was disappointed about Genesi's choice to use it.

@ Velcro_SP

Quote:

Sigh.

If a car dealer advertized that a specific car goes as fast as 120mph even though its maximum speed is 60mph and you sued him after buying this car from him, you would have a slam-dunk case in court.

If, on other hand, you sued a cafe for saying they sell the best coffee in the world which you happen to disagree with, your chances at winning would be rather slim.

The distinction should be quite obvious to any semi-intelligent adult.


Quote:

Zylesea has explained to you here on MorphZone that his EeePC laptop consumes roughly 10 watt in battery mode based on his real-life experiences. That number is for an entire computer, which includes a display, touchpad, keyboard, etc.

My argument has been in the past that the Cherrypal's real life power consumption numbers do not look very impressive in comparison.

Of course, you choose to rather talk about how some ominous "average x86 net-top" uses more power, which is completely besides the point. As Zylesea also explained, his EeePC consumes considerably more power when he plugs it into a wall socket. The reason is quite simply that netbook manufacturers think that extended battery time is more important than performance when you are on the go. When you are at home, the device switches from power-saving to full-power mode in order to provide as much speed as possible, hence the much higher power consumption.

In conclusion, it is obviously possible to configure an Atom platform to consume less than 10 watt of power if you do not mind a lower performance. Unlike the Cherrypal box, however, an Atom-based platform can also provide much higher performance (and consume substantially more power) in situations when you might need it. It is clearly a far more flexible solution in the context of desktop and mobile computers.

Quote:

I think you are entirely wrong about this.

The MPC5200B was advertized by Freescale to achieve 760 MIPS. They say the same about the MPC5121e. The Intel N270 (1.6Ghz) that is commonly found in netbooks is said to achieve 3300 MIPS. The FitPC2 uses Z series Atom processors that are more energy efficient but about 25% slower at the same clockspeed (random source: http://www.netbux.de/wp-content/myfotos/09-april/atom-n270.vs.n280.vs.z530.jpg). So, it is not unreasonable to make the educated guess that the Z530 at 1.6Ghz should achieve about 2500 MIPS.

And, yes, MIPS is not a perfect benchmark but it is useful enough to make rough comparisons, especially when performance differences are as huge as in this case. Based on common sense, it is difficult to believe somebody could write a "magic driver" that suddenly makes the LimePC come even close to matching the Fit PC 2.

The same is true about the PowerVR unit that is in fact widely used. This not "alien" hardware that nobody knows how to write a driver for. It is comparably slow because it was designed with cellphones in mind and it is certainly a great choice for mobile appliances, which explains why it is so successful in this market space. Comparing its data sheet with desktop graphic chips from a few years back should make it quite obvious how limited the offered performance really is. Again, there is no "magic driver" that is going to overcome the fundamental limitations of this hardware.