Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

Hmmm.

More sales meens licence price can come down.

Its simple math.

How much is AmigaOS4.1? about £100 ok and how many sell? say if 5000 sold yeh on hardware that too expensive.


Now try Morphos on sd or usb stick for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! worth over £159.99 when you buy the new MorphPAD!

We sell 15000 units and a contirbution goes to the MOS Team...... say £50 for each unit....

how much is that?
--------------------------------------

Ive just seen the nicest white sleek A9 Tablet for £100 plus mos £50 contribution and shipping = <199 worldwide!!!!!

ARM or PPC dont matter you can still run an emulator for old stuff.

We need to move into the future and ARM's possibly going to last and be cheaper.

But I think the MorphPAD could also be the first G4 PPC Mac in a Tablet in the world also. tbh Both versions would be nice:)

MorphOS-Mobile V1. ARM or PPC dont matter:)

This is the way forward for US as in the whole of the Amiga Community:)

P.S. I visioned the MorphPAD in the Genesi developer forums about 4 years ago now then a while later the IPad came out.

It really annoying tbh.

Regards.


[ Edited by amber-inc 17.08.2011 - 17:30 ]

> More sales meens licence price can come down. Its simple math.

The reduction in price actually depends on how much sales you anticipate. So it's not just simple math but also market assessment. That's the part where you can easily fail miserably, even as a graduated mathematician.

> Now try Morphos on sd or usb stick for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! worth over £159.99 when
> you buy the new MorphPAD! We sell 15000 units and a contirbution goes to the
> MOS Team...... say £50 for each unit....

How's that MorphOS for free when 50 GBP of the price for the package go to the MorphOS Team? Wouldn't that amount to exactly 50 GBP for one MorphOS license? Otherwise, that sounds like a plan. Now you just have to go ahead with it, convince the MorphOS Team and sell your 15,000 MorphPADs :-)

> A9 Tablet for £100 plus mos £50 contribution and shipping = <199 worldwide!!!!!

Ah okay, you were talking GBP all along, not USD. For 199 GBP you wouldn't even have to sacrifice on the current MorphOS price.

> ARM or PPC dont matter you can still run an emulator for old stuff.

For a completely boxed emulation like UAE this is certainly true. For a seemless one like currently implemented in MorphOS PPC I'm not convinced.

> I think the MorphPAD could also be the first G4 PPC Mac in a Tablet in the world also.

Yeah, more like a 400 MHz or below "G4 PPC Mac in a Tablet" and lacking AltiVec ;-)

> I visioned the MorphPAD in the Genesi developer forums about 4 years ago

They wanted to do a PPC tablet but as we all know the plans they had for the MPC5121e didn't work out:

http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2008/06/cherrypal-et-al.html

Thanks for helping bro.

I had my stuff deleted from the developer forums and everything:(

Maybe if you look somewhere you can get them back.

I was going to put an Efika into the back of a lcd tv

and designed the MorphPAD! you will be shocked at how much it resembles the IPad but its nice and white with a blue purple leds

That link is a joke:) seen the thing..thats like an robotic or automated stand still device not a Mobile MorphPAD.

http://armdevices.net/2011/04/09/95-cortex-a9-tablet-review-kinstone-ks-umd070a9/ <<<cheap single core

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/906615/211025180-458423653/Renesas-Android-Cortex-A9-Tablet-Netbook-7-inch-N7A-Bluetooth-Capacitive-2-2-Dual-core-1GHz.html?tracelog=back_to_detail_a <<<<<MorphPAD:)

DUAL CORE 1GHZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

160 DOllars$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


COME ON NOW HURRY UP PLEASE STOP WASTING MY TIME.

I wanna put the MorphPAD in my worldwide online store:)

more pics...

http://yishuntuo.en.alibaba.com/viewimg/picture.html?picture=http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/449608852/7_inch_Renesas_EV2_Tablet_PC_Cortex.jpg

* 7 inch Tablet
* Andriod 2.2
* 4GB
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* Capatitive Screen
* HDMI
* EXternal 3G
* Bluetooth
* Camera
* Battery: 3200 Mah


UNBELIEVABLE FAST, SMOOTH, FLUENT WITH RENESAS CORTEX A9

7" Renesas Dual Cortex-A9 Android 2.2 N7A 512M 4GB WIFI HDMI TFT Capacitive Touch Tablet PC

This tablet PC comes with Dual Cortex-A9 Renesas EV2 processor, Android 2.2 operation system, 512 memory, 1.3M Camera, 4GB HDD and a 7 inch TFT Capacitive touch screen with a 800*480 resolution. This tablet PC supports TF card. It has a wide range of office applications, such as word, excel, power point and email function. Moreover, network 1080P HDMI video, music, online chatting and image are supported. WIFI is also available in this tablet PC. It is a good entertainment and internet device.



Features:

• Dual Cortex-A9 Renesas EV2 Processor.
• Android 2.2 operation system.
• 512M memory, 4GB HDD.
• 7 inch TFT Capacitive touch screen, 800*480 resolution.
• Support TF card.
• Battery: 3200mAh.
• G-sensor Support
• Bluetooth 2.0
• Support word, excel, power point and email function.
• Support network 1080P HDMI video, music, online chatting, image.
• WIFI function.

Hardware Specs
CPU ARM Cortex A9 Dual core @ 533MHz
3-D graphics acceleration
1080P video decoder
Storage NAND flash 4G
Wireless IEEE 802.11 b/g/n network
Bluetooth2.1(Option)
Embedded(WCDMA/EV-DO/TD-SCDMA)(Option)
USB 1*Mini USB 2.0 port
camera 30W
Screen Size 7 inch
Resolution 800*480
Colors 16 million colors
Operation capacitive touch-screen
Others Product Size About 195mm(length) ×115mm(width) ×13mm(depth)
Color White
Product Weight 430g
Battery 3200mAH Built-in Li-poly battery
Accessory User Manual, USB Line,Charger

LOOK AT THESE!

0.jpg

469716404_o.jpg

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469716302_o.jpg

[ Edited by amber-inc 17.08.2011 - 19:51 ]

Reply over there:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7984&forum=3&start=2

Update:

> "Smart World, Great Opportunity - Introducing A High
> Performance End-User Platform Chip for Cloud Devices"
> https://www.power.org/events/ASIA-PAC-2011/agendafinal.jpg

Now also in the official press release:

https://www.power.org/news/pr/view?item_key=e96d273c96e162bac7f725cae1515306d653794e

Some more from recent press release:

"Already actively developing with Power Architecture technology, Chinachip will announce its latest Power Architecture-based family of SoCs for cloud devices at the 2011 ASIA Power Architecture conference [...]. Chinachip specializes in the development of high-performance, low power, highly integrated portable multimedia and personal computer SoC solutions for consumer electronics applications. The company's products are widely used in handheld games, books, multimedia players, and highly-integrated personal computers. Leveraging the latest technologies, the company provides some of the industry's highest performance solutions at the most competitive prices. 'Power Architecture technology plays an important part in our technology development as we continue to increase performance to meet the rapidly changing demands of the consumer market,' said Mr. Jiwu Li, CEO, Chinachip."
https://www.power.org/news/pr/view?item_key=31ff79f97e33ff8a9b6c4fbd6cee8463c9ab030c

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 25.08.2011 - 20:38 ]

Update:

> I'm eager to know whether they've developed new Power ISA compliant cores
> or if they just licensed existing Power ISA cores (like Applied Micro and LSI did
> with IBM's PPC4xx) and built their own SoCs around them.

"IBM today announced that it is broadening its Power architecture licensing program to include for the first time, a multi-use agreement that gives developers access to the entire lineup of Power cores with a single license. Designers can now gain access to a blanket license for unlimited uses of the Power 470, Power 460 and Power 405 cores for a five-year period. [...] IBM also announced a Value added Reseller (VAR) agreement with C*Core [...] to expand market channels for Power architecture in China. C*Core joins a growing list of Power partners around the globe, such as Verisilicon who has extensive System-on-Chip (SoC) design experience with Power 405 and 460 cores and are well positioned to provide integration and turn-key services to deliver multi-core SoC designs as demonstrated by their most recent design for Chinachip featured at the Asia Power Architecture Conference in ShenZhen, China."
http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/35319.wss

So it seems the new Chinese Power Architecture SoCs are not based on new cores but on IBM's PPC4xx core family.

Quote:
That's very much, yes. I fully agree.

Actually too much.

You would NEVER sell 15000 units equipped with such (non tablet-optimized) niche OS as MorphOS.

Not only would it (also) include the common "lack of software" issue, it would be worse than ever (no way to run any 68k software without UAE, or even PPC native MorphOS software that's never ported to ARM due to developer quitting, losing sources or whatever)

The big question: "Would I buy one?"

No. As long as there are MorphOS systems available that:
1)Can run more software (PPC and 68k binaries)
2)Have a real keyboard (sure, I can add one to a pad, but then it would lose all "pad appeal" it ever had (none for me anyway))

I agree. Mobility is one thing. But then again, I'd much rather get a proper laptop instead, and hey, we are likely to get Mac laptop support before ANY arm support (if ever, likely never)

Update:

> http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/35319.wss
> So it seems the new Chinese Power Architecture SoCs are not based on
> new cores but on IBM's PPC4xx core family.

The relevant ASIA PAC presentations are online:

https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2.CCore_Mr._Jian_Zheng.pdf (translation)
https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/6.Chinachip_Mr._Walter_Li_upd.pdf (translation)
https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/9._VeriSilicon_Rui_Wang.pdf

This is what I could take from them:

C*Core: C8000 (0.8 to 1.2 GHz) and C9000 (1.2 to 1.5 GHz) chips based on PPC460 or PPC476FP cores (roadmap depiction)

Chinachip & VeriSilicon: CC2000 chip* based on PPC460 or PPC476FP cores with HD audio, 2D/3D GPU (OpenGL ES, OpenVG), DSP, USB, SATA2 etc.


* Interesting comments from end of 2010:

"The next generation of consoles will be based on the CC2000 and expected to roll out by Q2 next year. The CC2000 will be announced in a month or so, and I've been kindly asked not to reveal the details, but as you can imagine, it's beast compared to the JZ4732 and CC1800."
http://www.dingux.com/2010/11/back-from-china.html

"by next year, the CC1800 will be obsolete and underpowered compared to other competitors in the PMP market. The CC2000 will be a bit more expensive, but here they have no choice but to move on or lag behind. Note that the CC2000 has a powerful GPU. [...] Note that the CC2000 processor uses DDR RAM, whose widespread usage makes it cheaper than the SDRAM used by the JZ4732 and CC1800. This means 256MB in the next generation consoles may probably cost the same or less than 64MB in the current generation consoles."
http://www.dingux.com/2010/12/clarifications-on-previous-post.html

...and from May 2011:

"According to my notes from when I was there, CC2000 is PPC architecture (PPC476+FPU+DSP+2D/3D GPU), clocked @ 700-800MHz."
http://www.dingux.com/2011/05/new-gemei-x760.html?showComment=1306365873622#c8385640607435095182

ASIA PAC presentation videos:
Part 1: Welcome and Introduction Speech & The Progress and Prospect of Chinese IC Industry & Opening Remark by Kai Wang VP Freescale & C Core Evolution and Prospect & Building Watson, Deep QA Technology Overview and a Brief of Jeopardy!
Part 2: Power Architecture 20 Years of Innovation & Why Power, Why Now? & Smart World, Great Opportunity - Introducing a High Performance End User Platform Chip for Cloud Devices
Part 3: Executive Round Table Discussion "Think Power for the Future"
Part 4: Freescale Vision for Power Architecture Based Multicore Solutions & Verisilicon Open Platform for Power PC Based SoC
Part 5: LSI Axxia Communication Processor Overview & Synopsys Advancing Engineering Education Using Power Architecture

Edit: link to C*Core roadmap added
Edit2: PDF links updated.
Edit3: Youtube links added.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 25.10.2012 - 22:52 ]

On amiga-news.de there are (not officially confirmed) claims the1000 has serious issues with the PSU. It is very picky and a "wrong"(not faulty) PSU can crash the X1000.
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/264119.html

Not good news for Trevor if this still applies to the Nemo Mobo's that were recently produced, but maybe they did not make very many boards.

I wonder if they will ever announce just how many X1000 computers have been produced, or how many PA6T CPU's they have on hand to make boards with?

> I wonder if they will ever announce just how many X1000 computers have been produced

I'd say not one single X1000 computer has been produced yet, as opposed to Nemo boards ;-)

Update:

> The relevant ASIA PAC presentations are online:
> https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2.CCore_Mr._Jian_Zheng.pdf (translation)
> https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/6.Chinachip_Mr._Walter_Li_upd.pdf (translation)
> https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/9._VeriSilicon_Rui_Wang.pdf
>
> This is what I could take from them:
>
> C*Core: C8000 (0.8 to 1.2 GHz) and C9000 (1.2 to 1.5 GHz) chips based on PPC460
> or PPC476FP cores (roadmap depiction)
> Chinachip & VeriSilicon: CC2000 chip* based on PPC460 or PPC476FP cores with
> HD audio, 2D/3D GPU (OpenGL ES, OpenVG), DSP, USB, SATA2 etc.

From the ASIA PAC 2012 agenda:

C*Core:
"C*Core scalable design platform help you to win! - Introducing the C*Core scalable design platform based on PowerPC ISA"

VeriSilicon:
"PowerPC based SoC development platform running Android/Linux OS - This presentation outlines a high performance, scalable and re-usable SoC development platform for a variety of multi-media applications, such as gaming. Platform based SoC development reduces risk, time-to-market, and cost while provides flexibility to develop application specific features and functions."

From a current Power.org press release:

"[...] the availability of Android operating system (OS) 2.3 port as open source code for the embedded community [...] was made possible through collaborative effort between VeriSilicon and Mentor Graphics based on PowerPC 460. [...] "[...] This port was coordinated by VeriSilicon (Power.Org member) working with Mentor Graphics, and validated on VeriSilicon's PowerPC based, multi-core SoC development platform" said Elmer Corbin, chairman, board of directors, for Power.org. [...] Demonstration of Android 2.3 on a Power platform will occur at the 2012 ASIA Power Architecture Conference."

ASIA PAC 2012 presentation slides:
https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/3.3-CCORE-ZhengJiang-2012-ASIA-PACfinal.pdf
https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/4.-CCore-Scaleable-Design-Platform-JoeXiaofinal.pdf
https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/5.-VeriSilicon-Open-Platform_English-Edition-Rui-1.5.pdf

Other presentation slides:
http://www.ipmall.org.cn/chinachip/ppt/CCore%20Scaleable%20Design%20Platform-%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E8%8A%AF.pdf
http://www.ipmall.org.cn/chinachip/ppt/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E8%8A%AF-Miya.pdf (translation, page 32)
http://www.siridamedia.com/yth/20130912_OTT_KW.pdf (translation, page 48/49)
http://www.chinaicexpo.com/speech/3G/VeriSiliconMiya.pdf (page 24)
http://www.chinaicexpo.com/speech/PPT/XY.pdf (page 27)

Edit: added press release.
Edit2: added links to presentation slides

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 17.07.2014 - 18:18 ]

Addendum:

> The relevant ASIA PAC presentations are online:
> https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2.CCore_Mr._Jian_Zheng.pdf (translation)
> [...]
> This is what I could take from them:
> C*Core: C8000 (0.8 to 1.2 GHz) and C9000 (1.2 to 1.5 GHz) chips based on
> PPC460 or PPC476FP cores (roadmap depiction)

I found an older document from mid-2011:
http://www.socip.org/socip/speech/pdf/20110708-075811-CCORE-SoCIP%202011%20Presentation.pdf (translation)

From page 7 can be seen that the C8000 has the PPC460 core while the C9000 has the PPC470 core (or more specifically PPC476 according to page 18).

Some C*Core press releases from yesterday mentioning C8000 and/or C9000:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.china-core.com/news/html/?45.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.china-core.com/news/html/?46.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.china-core.com/news/html/?50.html

> The Mark 3 was the Micro model (with both FX/GX) that was distributed by the
> Eyetech dealer network. Some developers had Mark 2.(very faulty)

Apparently, the MicroA1-C Mark 2 is called MicroA1-B by some. I never stumbled upon this moniker before.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37872&forum=16&start=140#711743
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=80247#forumpost80247

AmigaONE X2000 'Cyrus' board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwhMTGzi9m4

What would one do, with faster hardware? I have a Mac Mini and I hardly have performance issues. The issues we do have are more or less software related (for example SMB).

If you can work and life with MorphOS 100% of the time, then new hardware can be nice if there is software that can use it. Even in Microsoftland, there is still software that can't use multiprocessor. Sure the scheduler can assign processes to cores but 4 processes using 1% of a core, isn't better than 1 core with 4% load.

Let's hope that the X2000 isn't a fraction as costly as the monstrously overpriced X1000 (overpriced in the sense that you can get 10 times the power 1/7th the price nowadays), but I doubt it. Making new hardware is nice and all, but making it for just the fan boys out there will not make the market bigger. And we IMMHO need to make the market at least big enough to support a couple of small software enterprices.

Quote:

I hope the opposite is true. The longer they keep shooting themselves in the foot by releasing half-supported under-powered over-priced hardware for OS4 they will only serve to drive people away from OS4 which will increase MorphOS' market share.

Quote:

I think the main aim of the X2000 is not to outclass the X1000, but to warrant supply. The PA6Ts are that crazy expensive (and rare) that a new design probably does the math even with the anticipated low production runs.
If they now skip this useless Xorro nonsense and keep the design rather simple (and hence not crazy expensive) it would be at least way more attractive than the X1000.
Step in the right direction at least, good luck for Trevor.

@Intuition

I doubt it. If MOS wants a bigger share, we need new users and they have other demands than we do. We want the "Amiga experience" so we can live without SMP, Multicores, new hardware and good modern software. But other users will probably not see it our way. They want it all, and they can get it with Windows, OSX and Linux.

So the ones that are left are the fan boys of each camp and they will not change for whatever reason. And the ones that are flexible enough already own multiple systems. So here there is no share to be taken, as I see it.

However, I look forward to the day when MOS do a architectural shift and be able to attract a new crowd. But then we need a minimum of good software in order for them to pay for a licence. So I think we don't need to add more hardware (except maybe the ones that are relatively simple to port by now) and concentrate in making MOS better and adding those much needed programs, that will then be ready for the shift. This, IMHO, could be the key to relative success for MorphOS in the future.

> The PA6Ts are that crazy expensive

There has been reported a price drop to 600 USD. Still expensive, but less crazy than the 975 USD reported before.

> If they now skip this useless Xorro nonsense

I'm afraid they don't:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=780

> Let's hope that the X2000 isn't a fraction as costly as the monstrously overpriced X1000

"Trevor told me (at the Silicon Dreams VCF show) that the cheaper (dual-core) version will be similar in price to the X1000, but they will actually make a profit on this one (unlike the X1000) that will allow future developments, while the POSSIBLE future quad-core one will be even more expensive."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6820#90551

Quote:

I am afraid the continued interest and backlog of orders for the X1000 has not given A-Eon and AmigaKit any incentive to choose a cheaper alternative that could be sold at a price lower than the existing X1000. No doubt they could sell more computers, if they could price them closer to the current price of a SAM system, but it appears that they are not aiming for thousands of sales and may be content with the same few hundred units sold, like the current X1000. They appear to be keeping their sales aimed squarely at the high end AmigaOS4.x users and are content to leave the lower end of that market to A-Cube's SAM systems (though I do not consider them to be cheap, by any stretch of the imagination). Also, if you read further in the thread quoted by AW, AmigaKit states that nobody knows what the price of Freescale chips will be by the time the X2000 (or what ever it will be called) is ready for production and sales to the public. The price of the next system(s) from A-Eon and AmigaKit is totally unknown and could change many times between a rough guess a few weeks ago, to the actual price that will be charged 9 to 18 months from now.

I like Trevor very much, and have a high degree of admiration for him being able to follow his dream all the way to a real product (as so many others have failed to accomplish in this community), but I like the path that the MorphOS Dev. Team has chosen, as it is the most sensible direction to follow for the majority of users interested in a Next Gen. Amiga system, that has also naturally grown out of the original Amiga + PPC hybrid accelerators of the 1990's. AROS is easily the direction that makes the most sense, but it has taken so long to mature and is still behind MorphOS in many ways, I think it had lost the interest of many users. Now that AROS is making some progress, it will be interesting to see which direction will make the most sense for the future. My hope is still that the AROS and MorphOS Dev. Team will merge together, when the time comes for MorhpOS to migrate to the x86/x64 platform.

I think the combination of AROS developers and MorphOS Dev. Team members, will be an unbeatable force for the future of Amiga-Like computing.

Just my 2 cents,


[ Edited by amigadave 21.07.2013 - 11:52 ]

I fail to understand the point of designing a PPC motherboard in... 2013. Especially of this form factor, since the trend is having tiny boards with nice designs (see MacMini, mini PCs, Raspberry, Ouya,...)

Isn't it time to move onto something else ?

Quote:
I'm pretty sure Bill Gates thought the exactly same thing when he said that "640kb ought to be enough for everyone"...

I'm sure Amiga designers thought the same when designing Amigas... Unfortunately the Amiga 1200 didn't run DOOM in 1993.

Performance is an issue.

> Bill Gates [...] said that "640kb ought to be enough for everyone"...

From the year 1996:
"I've said some stupid things and some wrong things, but not that. No one involved in computers would ever say that a certain amount of memory is enough for all time … I keep bumping into that silly quotation attributed to me that says 640K of memory is enough. There's never a citation; the quotation just floats like a rumor, repeated again and again."

From the year 2001:
"Do you realize the pain the industry went through while the IBM PC was limited to 640K? The machine was going to be 512K at one point, and we kept pushing it up. I never said that statement — I said the opposite of that."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bill_Gates#Misattributed