Update:

>> A new company doing PPCs.

> And another one:
> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4218659/Power-VeriSilicon-China
> Seems it's going to get crowded ;-)

Going by the schedule of the ASIA PAC event, there'll apparently be a third Chinese chip company (Chinachip) entering Power Architecture land:

"Smart World, Great Opportunity - Introducing A High Performance End-User Platform Chip for Cloud Devices"
https://www.power.org/events/ASIA-PAC-2011/agendafinal.jpg

for cloud devices .... I don't like "the cloud", I don't trust it. I hope MorphOS will not evolve to something that is only used for cloudcomputing.

> for cloud devices .... I don't like "the cloud"

I'm not so much a fan of it either but I like the "high performance" part of the statement ...whatever the Chinese think that means that is ;-)

> I hope MorphOS will not evolve to something that is only used for cloudcomputing.

It's probably not reasonable to assume that a random chip by a random Chinese company could have an influence on the development direction of MorphOS ;-)

Well if new PPC architecture never makes it to motherboards used for mainstraim desktop-like hardware... eventually a choice has to be made at some point.

And what do they call high performerance ? As in SAM460 ? Yes indeed great performerance ... for a tablet or as such. I doubt it very much the Chinese suddenly have a ppc chip that is an innovation, more likely a slightly altered copy.... as usual.

> if new PPC architecture never makes it to motherboards used for mainstraim
> desktop-like hardware... eventually a choice has to be made at some point.

True, that's a given.

> what do they call high performerance ?

That's the question to ask, yes. I already stated my stance some days ago.

> I doubt it very much the Chinese suddenly have
> a ppc chip that is an innovation

Mind you, innovation can not only refer to performance but also to power consumption, manufacturing costs and other things.

> more likely a slightly altered copy.... as usual.

But a *legal* "copy" in this case ;-) I'm eager to know whether they've developed new Power ISA compliant cores or if they just licensed existing Power ISA cores (like Applied Micro and LSI did with IBM's PPC4xx) and built their own SoCs around them.

It appears to me I have many more lives left:)

Thankyou Genesi for removing the European prices.


AUM.

[ Edited by amber-inc 16.08.2011 - 06:56 ]

> It appears to me I have many more lives left:)

Yes, at least two accounts still.

> Thankyou Genesi for removing the European prices.

Genesi's prices didn't change one iota since when you complained about them 5 days ago.

http://www.genesi-europe.com/store/eu/

We just becuase the dollar as gone down a new european slash page was created.

It's not fair internationally to charge different prices for different places.

These new ARM Cortex A9 Tablet Computers are better then smart books beucase of the touch functionality and Ipad style shape.

We need to create the MorphPAD!

1GHZ and 3D Games

A nice Tablet that is white and blue with a butterfly on the back for less then 199 that comes with the Morphos on SDcard or USB Stick with a user licence.

Regards.

www.paradox-computers.com

Oepabakkes,
Quote:

Wanna sing a song?

> We need to create the MorphPAD!

"We" as in "the MorphOS Team"? ;-) As a matter of fact, the MorphOS Team alone decides which hardware MorphOS is going to run on. There's no way "we" could make run MorphOS on an ARM based tablet (not even on a PPC based tablet) or any other hardware we might be fantasizing about. However, you might offer the MorphOS Team to join them in order to port MorphOS to ARM tablets and create your "MorphPAD" ;-)

> ARM Cortex A9 Tablet Computers [...] 1GHZ [...] for less then
> 199 that comes with the Morphos on SDcard or USB Stick
> with a user licence.

At least 170 USD would account for the tablet plus SD card or USB stick. That would leave less than 30 USD for the MorphOS license. Do you think the MorphOS Team would give the licenses away for that price when currently it's more than 5x of that?

Well I guess MorphOS team could share us some toughts on a rough estimate what porting to ARM would cost so he can provide them the much needed funds, if they are willing to do so.

On the other hand, why not wait ? ... maybe the Chinese are really going to get us new and exciting ppc devices that conquer the world. No porting needed to ARM then.

Altough one question ... why does it seem so easy for AROS devs to port to so many different architectures ? Are they with more ? Is it easier for some reason for them ?

Try running an AROS-x86 binary on ARM,PPC or even x86-64 and you got your answer......


Porting MorphOS to ARM might be relativly simple, but without compability to existing PPC and 68k code I hardly see a point.

Further fragmentation is the last thing we could need.

I am 100% with you about fragmentation and 101% what backwards compatibility is concerned.

In my opinion it would be only worth it if it happens in a way Apple did move to x86: Very powerfull hardware and something like Rosetta to keep old software running.

About your first sentence: you want to say it is not running very well ? Understandable if you want to support so many different platforms with not so many devs.

> something like Rosetta to keep old software running.

That's exactly the problem. A transparent CPU emulator *and* endianness converter (for little-endian host CPU) like Rosetta is not possible with MorphOS. Read what the father of MorphOS had to say about that issue some years ago:

http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/126048.shtml

For a host CPU that is able to run in true big-endian mode this would be a non-issue, though, like it is right now with transparently running m68k code on PPC MorphOS.

> you want to say it is not running very well ?

No, he wants to say that AROS executables compiled for a certain CPU ISA don't run on AROS for any other CPU ISA *at all*. The same would apply to MorphOS as long as it lacks transparent emulators for the other ISAs. And such emulator would only be possible for CPUs with matching endianness anyway (see above).

So all answers answered then !

Andreas_Wolf,
Quote:

Hmmm.

More sales meens licence price can come down.

Its simple math.

How much is AmigaOS4.1? about £100 ok and how many sell? say if 5000 sold yeh on hardware that too expensive.


Now try Morphos on sd or usb stick for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! worth over £159.99 when you buy the new MorphPAD!

We sell 15000 units and a contirbution goes to the MOS Team...... say £50 for each unit....

how much is that?
--------------------------------------

Ive just seen the nicest white sleek A9 Tablet for £100 plus mos £50 contribution and shipping = <199 worldwide!!!!!

ARM or PPC dont matter you can still run an emulator for old stuff.

We need to move into the future and ARM's possibly going to last and be cheaper.

But I think the MorphPAD could also be the first G4 PPC Mac in a Tablet in the world also. tbh Both versions would be nice:)

MorphOS-Mobile V1. ARM or PPC dont matter:)

This is the way forward for US as in the whole of the Amiga Community:)

P.S. I visioned the MorphPAD in the Genesi developer forums about 4 years ago now then a while later the IPad came out.

It really annoying tbh.

Regards.


[ Edited by amber-inc 17.08.2011 - 17:30 ]

> More sales meens licence price can come down. Its simple math.

The reduction in price actually depends on how much sales you anticipate. So it's not just simple math but also market assessment. That's the part where you can easily fail miserably, even as a graduated mathematician.

> Now try Morphos on sd or usb stick for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! worth over £159.99 when
> you buy the new MorphPAD! We sell 15000 units and a contirbution goes to the
> MOS Team...... say £50 for each unit....

How's that MorphOS for free when 50 GBP of the price for the package go to the MorphOS Team? Wouldn't that amount to exactly 50 GBP for one MorphOS license? Otherwise, that sounds like a plan. Now you just have to go ahead with it, convince the MorphOS Team and sell your 15,000 MorphPADs :-)

> A9 Tablet for £100 plus mos £50 contribution and shipping = <199 worldwide!!!!!

Ah okay, you were talking GBP all along, not USD. For 199 GBP you wouldn't even have to sacrifice on the current MorphOS price.

> ARM or PPC dont matter you can still run an emulator for old stuff.

For a completely boxed emulation like UAE this is certainly true. For a seemless one like currently implemented in MorphOS PPC I'm not convinced.

> I think the MorphPAD could also be the first G4 PPC Mac in a Tablet in the world also.

Yeah, more like a 400 MHz or below "G4 PPC Mac in a Tablet" and lacking AltiVec ;-)

> I visioned the MorphPAD in the Genesi developer forums about 4 years ago

They wanted to do a PPC tablet but as we all know the plans they had for the MPC5121e didn't work out:

http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2008/06/cherrypal-et-al.html

Thanks for helping bro.

I had my stuff deleted from the developer forums and everything:(

Maybe if you look somewhere you can get them back.

I was going to put an Efika into the back of a lcd tv

and designed the MorphPAD! you will be shocked at how much it resembles the IPad but its nice and white with a blue purple leds

That link is a joke:) seen the thing..thats like an robotic or automated stand still device not a Mobile MorphPAD.

http://armdevices.net/2011/04/09/95-cortex-a9-tablet-review-kinstone-ks-umd070a9/ <<<cheap single core

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/906615/211025180-458423653/Renesas-Android-Cortex-A9-Tablet-Netbook-7-inch-N7A-Bluetooth-Capacitive-2-2-Dual-core-1GHz.html?tracelog=back_to_detail_a <<<<<MorphPAD:)

DUAL CORE 1GHZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

160 DOllars$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


COME ON NOW HURRY UP PLEASE STOP WASTING MY TIME.

I wanna put the MorphPAD in my worldwide online store:)

more pics...

http://yishuntuo.en.alibaba.com/viewimg/picture.html?picture=http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/449608852/7_inch_Renesas_EV2_Tablet_PC_Cortex.jpg

* 7 inch Tablet
* Andriod 2.2
* 4GB
* 512M
* Capatitive Screen
* HDMI
* EXternal 3G
* Bluetooth
* Camera
* Battery: 3200 Mah


UNBELIEVABLE FAST, SMOOTH, FLUENT WITH RENESAS CORTEX A9

7" Renesas Dual Cortex-A9 Android 2.2 N7A 512M 4GB WIFI HDMI TFT Capacitive Touch Tablet PC

This tablet PC comes with Dual Cortex-A9 Renesas EV2 processor, Android 2.2 operation system, 512 memory, 1.3M Camera, 4GB HDD and a 7 inch TFT Capacitive touch screen with a 800*480 resolution. This tablet PC supports TF card. It has a wide range of office applications, such as word, excel, power point and email function. Moreover, network 1080P HDMI video, music, online chatting and image are supported. WIFI is also available in this tablet PC. It is a good entertainment and internet device.



Features:

• Dual Cortex-A9 Renesas EV2 Processor.
• Android 2.2 operation system.
• 512M memory, 4GB HDD.
• 7 inch TFT Capacitive touch screen, 800*480 resolution.
• Support TF card.
• Battery: 3200mAh.
• G-sensor Support
• Bluetooth 2.0
• Support word, excel, power point and email function.
• Support network 1080P HDMI video, music, online chatting, image.
• WIFI function.

Hardware Specs
CPU ARM Cortex A9 Dual core @ 533MHz
3-D graphics acceleration
1080P video decoder
Storage NAND flash 4G
Wireless IEEE 802.11 b/g/n network
Bluetooth2.1(Option)
Embedded(WCDMA/EV-DO/TD-SCDMA)(Option)
USB 1*Mini USB 2.0 port
camera 30W
Screen Size 7 inch
Resolution 800*480
Colors 16 million colors
Operation capacitive touch-screen
Others Product Size About 195mm(length) ×115mm(width) ×13mm(depth)
Color White
Product Weight 430g
Battery 3200mAH Built-in Li-poly battery
Accessory User Manual, USB Line,Charger

LOOK AT THESE!

0.jpg

469716404_o.jpg

469716308_o.jpg

469716302_o.jpg

[ Edited by amber-inc 17.08.2011 - 19:51 ]

Reply over there:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7984&forum=3&start=2

Update:

> "Smart World, Great Opportunity - Introducing A High
> Performance End-User Platform Chip for Cloud Devices"
> https://www.power.org/events/ASIA-PAC-2011/agendafinal.jpg

Now also in the official press release:

https://www.power.org/news/pr/view?item_key=e96d273c96e162bac7f725cae1515306d653794e

Some more from recent press release:

"Already actively developing with Power Architecture technology, Chinachip will announce its latest Power Architecture-based family of SoCs for cloud devices at the 2011 ASIA Power Architecture conference [...]. Chinachip specializes in the development of high-performance, low power, highly integrated portable multimedia and personal computer SoC solutions for consumer electronics applications. The company's products are widely used in handheld games, books, multimedia players, and highly-integrated personal computers. Leveraging the latest technologies, the company provides some of the industry's highest performance solutions at the most competitive prices. 'Power Architecture technology plays an important part in our technology development as we continue to increase performance to meet the rapidly changing demands of the consumer market,' said Mr. Jiwu Li, CEO, Chinachip."
https://www.power.org/news/pr/view?item_key=31ff79f97e33ff8a9b6c4fbd6cee8463c9ab030c

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 25.08.2011 - 20:38 ]

Update:

> I'm eager to know whether they've developed new Power ISA compliant cores
> or if they just licensed existing Power ISA cores (like Applied Micro and LSI did
> with IBM's PPC4xx) and built their own SoCs around them.

"IBM today announced that it is broadening its Power architecture licensing program to include for the first time, a multi-use agreement that gives developers access to the entire lineup of Power cores with a single license. Designers can now gain access to a blanket license for unlimited uses of the Power 470, Power 460 and Power 405 cores for a five-year period. [...] IBM also announced a Value added Reseller (VAR) agreement with C*Core [...] to expand market channels for Power architecture in China. C*Core joins a growing list of Power partners around the globe, such as Verisilicon who has extensive System-on-Chip (SoC) design experience with Power 405 and 460 cores and are well positioned to provide integration and turn-key services to deliver multi-core SoC designs as demonstrated by their most recent design for Chinachip featured at the Asia Power Architecture Conference in ShenZhen, China."
http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/35319.wss

So it seems the new Chinese Power Architecture SoCs are not based on new cores but on IBM's PPC4xx core family.

Quote:
That's very much, yes. I fully agree.

Actually too much.

You would NEVER sell 15000 units equipped with such (non tablet-optimized) niche OS as MorphOS.

Not only would it (also) include the common "lack of software" issue, it would be worse than ever (no way to run any 68k software without UAE, or even PPC native MorphOS software that's never ported to ARM due to developer quitting, losing sources or whatever)

The big question: "Would I buy one?"

No. As long as there are MorphOS systems available that:
1)Can run more software (PPC and 68k binaries)
2)Have a real keyboard (sure, I can add one to a pad, but then it would lose all "pad appeal" it ever had (none for me anyway))

I agree. Mobility is one thing. But then again, I'd much rather get a proper laptop instead, and hey, we are likely to get Mac laptop support before ANY arm support (if ever, likely never)

Update:

> http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/35319.wss
> So it seems the new Chinese Power Architecture SoCs are not based on
> new cores but on IBM's PPC4xx core family.

The relevant ASIA PAC presentations are online:

https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2.CCore_Mr._Jian_Zheng.pdf (translation)
https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/6.Chinachip_Mr._Walter_Li_upd.pdf (translation)
https://www.power.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/9._VeriSilicon_Rui_Wang.pdf

This is what I could take from them:

C*Core: C8000 (0.8 to 1.2 GHz) and C9000 (1.2 to 1.5 GHz) chips based on PPC460 or PPC476FP cores (roadmap depiction)

Chinachip & VeriSilicon: CC2000 chip* based on PPC460 or PPC476FP cores with HD audio, 2D/3D GPU (OpenGL ES, OpenVG), DSP, USB, SATA2 etc.


* Interesting comments from end of 2010:

"The next generation of consoles will be based on the CC2000 and expected to roll out by Q2 next year. The CC2000 will be announced in a month or so, and I've been kindly asked not to reveal the details, but as you can imagine, it's beast compared to the JZ4732 and CC1800."
http://www.dingux.com/2010/11/back-from-china.html

"by next year, the CC1800 will be obsolete and underpowered compared to other competitors in the PMP market. The CC2000 will be a bit more expensive, but here they have no choice but to move on or lag behind. Note that the CC2000 has a powerful GPU. [...] Note that the CC2000 processor uses DDR RAM, whose widespread usage makes it cheaper than the SDRAM used by the JZ4732 and CC1800. This means 256MB in the next generation consoles may probably cost the same or less than 64MB in the current generation consoles."
http://www.dingux.com/2010/12/clarifications-on-previous-post.html

...and from May 2011:

"According to my notes from when I was there, CC2000 is PPC architecture (PPC476+FPU+DSP+2D/3D GPU), clocked @ 700-800MHz."
http://www.dingux.com/2011/05/new-gemei-x760.html?showComment=1306365873622#c8385640607435095182

ASIA PAC presentation videos:
Part 1: Welcome and Introduction Speech & The Progress and Prospect of Chinese IC Industry & Opening Remark by Kai Wang VP Freescale & C Core Evolution and Prospect & Building Watson, Deep QA Technology Overview and a Brief of Jeopardy!
Part 2: Power Architecture 20 Years of Innovation & Why Power, Why Now? & Smart World, Great Opportunity - Introducing a High Performance End User Platform Chip for Cloud Devices
Part 3: Executive Round Table Discussion "Think Power for the Future"
Part 4: Freescale Vision for Power Architecture Based Multicore Solutions & Verisilicon Open Platform for Power PC Based SoC
Part 5: LSI Axxia Communication Processor Overview & Synopsys Advancing Engineering Education Using Power Architecture

Edit: link to C*Core roadmap added
Edit2: PDF links updated.
Edit3: Youtube links added.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 25.10.2012 - 22:52 ]

On amiga-news.de there are (not officially confirmed) claims the1000 has serious issues with the PSU. It is very picky and a "wrong"(not faulty) PSU can crash the X1000.
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/264119.html

Not good news for Trevor if this still applies to the Nemo Mobo's that were recently produced, but maybe they did not make very many boards.

I wonder if they will ever announce just how many X1000 computers have been produced, or how many PA6T CPU's they have on hand to make boards with?