> I just looked and your second link doesn't say anything about the
> MID 3G.

Not explicitly, right. But as I already explained, it's about the "LimePC related products" offered by meet.mrnrg. The MID 3G as a member of the LimePC product family clearly qualifies as such.

> MeetMrNRG doesn't even link to it, he only links to the TV versions.

I was talking about the link in his AWN news item, not the link in his comment to that. And obviously, the link I referred to now leads to a page with a content different from the content back then. Specifically, the MID 3G was present in his linked eBay store.

> I guess you are mistaken.

No, I'm not. I stand by my claim that my second link refers to an incident where meet.mrnrg desperately tried to promote his LimePC sales, including the device you pointed out.

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 15:56 ]

> my question that you purported to answer was specifically about the
> MID 3G. Here it is again: "In other words, do or do not his comments
> in those discussions include the device I linked, the MID 3G?" You
> persist in claiming to answer the specific question but then you
> bring in generalities.

No, it was meet.mrnrg himself talking also generally in that thread about *all* LimePC devices he offered in his store at this point in time, including the MID 3G. So, yes, his comments about the general LimePC family clearly include that device. And no, they don't include an explicit denotation of it, but that's not what you asked for, and not what I claimed for that matter.

> Anybody reading can go and check and word-search your second link
> and not find any reference to the MID 3G.

Maybe you'll grasp it with the help of an example:
One can talk about Genesi PPC mainboards refering to Pegasos I, Pegasos II and Efika only with mentioning the hypernym term "Genesi PPC mainboards". Would you really claim this didn't include either Pegasos I, Pegasos II or Efika just because these terms are not explicitly mentioned?
Likewise, meet.mrnrg in his comments (yes, now I really mean the comments of said thread) about his "LimePC related products" refers to the MID 3G he was offering via his store as well as to all other LimePC devices he offered back then.

> Rather than just admitting that none of your links said anything
> about the MID 3G

Yes, I won't "admit" that because I'm not going to lie. I will however admit that the *term* "MID 3G" was not mentioned. But then, that's not what I claimed. So, no retraction from my side.

> you say that oh on that amigaworld.net page there is a link to his
> eBay store and it was there that one would find the MID 3G.

To understand which LimePC devices meet.mrnrg was refering to in his news item and in his comments where he talked about his LimePC offerings in general, you had to check the link to his store. And the MID 3G was there. Thus, the MID 3G was very well included when he commented about his LimePC offerings.

> But if this were really what you were saying, then why wouldn't you
> just link his eBay store directly?

Because his eBay store (of which I thought you knew already) was *not* what I wanted to show you in the first place. I wanted to show you his AWN news item (and discussion) about his LimePC offerings, including the MID 3G. You may remember my claim that "meet.mrnrg desperately tries to promote his LimePC sales". His AWN news item is an evidence for that, the mere existence of his eBay store clearly isn't.

> Are we supposed to check not only the pages you link, but each page
> linked to on the pages you link?

See, if someone talks about several things using a hypernym denotation of those things, to know what things he specifically talks about you have to do yourself the favor of checking it out. Simple as that. And checking in our specific case would have meant looking up the LimePC devices meet.mrnrg offered via his store. Else, how would you know that his comments about his LimePC offerings didn't include the MID 3G? I think you already knew about the MID 3G being offered by him, but still you insist on the MID 3G not having been included in any of his comments about his LimePC offerings.

> further this explanation makes absolutely no sense at all because
> you responded to my comment which already linked (and still does)
> to the eBay picture of the MID 3G!

Yes! That's exactly why I concluded that you already know his eBay store. What's making no sense, again?

> So we already knew that he had the MID 3G on eBay.

Again: I wanted to show you his AWN news item, not his eBay store of which I already had concluded that you know it.

> The question was ""In other words, do or do not his comments in
> those discussions include the device I linked, the MID 3G?"

To get to the point:

"As well as the new PPC NoteBooks and PPC TV and PPC X1's etc..."
"As far as suppliers, they are the well know Amiga suppliers and for others LimePC"
"More supportive of this PPC, because it's FreeScale PPC design."
"Besides as far as I know, there is no money to port AmigaOS4.x to LimePC..."
"MiniMig and AmigaOS4 and SamFlex are in stock, so for Amiga people not interested in other PPC technology right now, that's for them to decide. In 6-12-18 months if Lime PPC product sales are large enough then hey, presto, Hyperion could be then convinced there's a market, once it exists. Even then they might not have time or money for these products."

...are the phrases of his comments which include the MID 3G (highlighting added by me).

> your repeated mischaracterization of my words "*a* gfx *coprocessor*"
> to "*the* graphics *core*" including after I asked you not to do it.

It was not about your ambigous words but about the self-contradicting *meaning* behind these words *after* your explanation as to what you allegedly meant. Up to now, you did not manage to resolve those contradictions.
And just because you asked me not to scrutinize ("word-twist" in your words) your self-contradicting postings any longer doesn't mean I'm obliged to obey.

> Here, you just throw up smoke screens and evasive

Where exactly?

> misleading language in answer to a direct question

I'm not a native English speaker, so my language may very well be lacking. Would you mind continuing our discussion in the "Deutsche Foren" here on MZ?
However, by now I even answered your direct question in such a detailed way that you had not even asked for.

> because you won't admit you're wrong.

"Admitting" I'm wrong would equal a lie.

> I deny your sorry and baseless accusation that I lied.

Of course, that's exactly what a liar would be expected to do :-P

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 15:53 ]

> You can write more novel-length obfuscations but I pinned it down
> enough that others are going to see it too

Yes, I hope that others are going to see who is the obfuscater here who is distracting whenever it's getting to the point.

Guys, we are NOT paying attention to you...

|||




[ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 15:54 ]

> woe unto us all if your latest 1000-word mindfuck is "getting to
> the point."

As you obviously missed it in your typical ignorance, start reading between

"To get to the point:"

and

"...are the phrases of his comments which include the MID 3G (highlighting added by me)."

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 18.04.2011 - 19:12 ]

Wow - loads of SPAM in this thread! Pathetic!

[ Edited by Zylesea on 2009/9/25 3:02 ]

> I saw the one where you bolded "etc."

Fine, that one's a beginning. What about the other 6? Not seen? Then look again, they're there, really.

> So your answer in part to "In other words, do or do not his
> comments in those discussions include the device I linked, the
> MID 3G?" is "yes, because it includes the word "etc.""

It's not *the* answer, it's a tiny part of the answer (1/7th, to be precise). If you look closer, you'll discover the other 6/7th. But then again, even 1/7th would be sufficient to answer your question positively. So my answer is 600% overloaded. How's that?
As for the "etc.": He talks about his LimePC offerings, naming the "NoteBooks", the "TV" and the "X1's" explicitly. So it's obvious that "etc." means all his other LimePC offerings he didn't name explicitly, including the MID 3G.

> You're fooling less and less people all the time.

I didn't fool anyone in the beginning, I don't fool anyone now. That's not "less and less" but rather constant.

|||



[ Edited by Velcro_SP 18.04.2011 - 19:10 ]

> You knew that when I asked you if the links you dropped after my
> comment about the MID-3G included the MID-3G that I was not asking
> you if they contained "groups which include the MID-3G."

No, I didn't know that you were asking if these links contained the word "MID-3G". Groups of things include the things they consist of by definition.

> That's just a bended, specious, convenient, and intentional
> misinterpretation.

No, it's simple logic.

> If I asked if your link included "cats," would you say yes because
> it was a general discussion of animals and a cat is an animal?

Exactly. Dare to answer my question from 10 days ago? It went like:

One can talk about Genesi PPC mainboards refering to Pegasos I, Pegasos II and Efika only with mentioning the hypernym term "Genesi PPC mainboards". Would you really claim this didn't include either Pegasos I, Pegasos II or Efika just because these terms are not explicitly mentioned?

> Of course not, that's idiotic.

No, that's simple logic.

> I'll believe Titan when it's actually released.

A step closer:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6268&forum=11&start=60#65841

Addendum:

> the e700 route isn't pursued by Freescale anymore for a long time.

Funnily, in the following presentations from February 2010 the e700 is listed under "future" products:

http://www.power.org/events/designcon10/B1._Power.org_DesignCon2010_Power.org_Busienss_Panel_BF-W3_Behmann.pdf (page 10)
http://www.power.org/events/designcon10/E1._DesignCon2010_Power.org_Power_Architecture_Advanement_Fawzi_Behmann.pdf (page 7)

And this presentation from June 2010 also lists the e700:
http://www.freescale.com/files/ftf_2010/Americas/FTF_ENT_F0770.pdf (page 65)

> Also power.org's Power Architecture Silicon Roadmap doesn't mention it anymore.

This roadmap has been updated in March 2010. As expected, the e700 hasn't returned though ;-)

Edit: added another PDF file.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2011/3/4 13:51 ]

Can be "power.org" really trusted?

> Can be "power.org" really trusted?

While I don't know exactly how to take that question let me say that I normally wouldn't trust anyone claiming in 2010 that there'll be an e700 coming, especially if that person held the position of Director of Strategic Marketing for Freescale's Networking Systems Division from March 2001 to April 2009 and thus simply *must* know about the cancellation of Freescale's e700, which took place long before he left the company.
From then on being Power.org's Director of Marketing & Strategic Advisor he has some semi-interesting things to say:

http://www10.edacafe.com/video/flv_data/video_192.flv (DesignCon 2009)
http://www10.edacafe.com/video/flv_data/video_1737.flv (DesignCon 2010)

Unfortunately no mention of e700 in these interviews, though ;-)

Addendum:

> This roadmap has been updated in March 2010.

...and once more in April:

http://www.power.org/resources/devcorner/roadmap/Power_org_PA_Roadmap_2010_.pdf

Addendum:

> I normally wouldn't trust anyone claiming in 2010 that there'll be an e700
> coming [...] Unfortunately no mention of e700 in these interviews, though ;-)

I found some interesting notes suggesting that there was indeed real work put into the development of the e700:

------------------------------
Circuit Design Engineering Manager
Freescale Semiconductor
[...]
e700 single-core multi-shreading SoC chip on-chip L2 Tag Array(65nm SOI)
------------------------------
http://www.linkedin.com/in/shayanzhang

------------------------------
Engineering Rotation Program Participant
Freescale Semiconductor
[...]
Design verification of the completion block for a Power Architecture core in the networking and computing systems advanced technology division (e700 core).
------------------------------
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/chad-coburn/0/b53/561

> being Power.org's Director of Marketing & Strategic Advisor he has some
> semi-interesting things to say:
> http://www10.edacafe.com/video/flv_data/video_192.flv (DesignCon 2009)
> http://www10.edacafe.com/video/flv_data/video_1737.flv (DesignCon 2010)

New interview where he presents the most recent Power Architecture roadmap revision, which is not yet published on power.org website:

http://videos.cache.magnify.net/HYS8JG0X56WGX7G3-PowerOrg_DAC_483_336_384x216.mp4 (Design Automation Conference 2010)

Quite disturbingly, he claims the XBox360 and the Wii to be powered by the Cell CPU. And as a minor head scratcher he presents the QorIQ P1 and P2 families to be based on e500mc core (while in reality based on e500v2).

Reply to myself:

> as a MorphOS user I have mixed feelings about the QorIQ. The variants matching an
> OS that is not SMP capable are of no use due to the incompatible FPU implementation,
> and the variant matching the way FPU support is implemented in the OS is an overkill
> eight-core beast. [...] A single-core e500mc based CPU [...] would be nice, though.

Seems the 2+ GHz e5500 core ("e500mc64") based QorIQ P5010 could appear as a good match for MorphOS. It's single-core, can run in 32bit mode and contains a traditional FPU running at full core clock rate (as opposed to e500mc based P3 and P4 families where the FPU runs only half-clocked) as well as SATA2 controllers.

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6313&forum=11#74079

Quote:

From the core yes. But there are pretty many other things within the package for real high end networking (several 10 Gb controllers, packet inspector, buffers, security stuff). Not that MorphOS gets hindred by these compounds, but I guess they are rather bad for the wallet. On teh other hand the other QorIQs have also some fancy stuff on board and are not too expensive.
And - unfortunately the 5500 has not Altivec. Still if someone would try to build new hardware for MorphOS now I would still rather recommend MPC 8610 or 8640.

The P5010 could be a good alternative to the ibm 476 (which I also still consider interesting)

> several 10 Gb controllers

No, just one.

> Not that MorphOS gets hindred by these compounds, but I guess they are
> rather bad for the wallet.

Yes, probably. We'll see what the price tag for the P5010 is going to be.

> On teh other hand the other QorIQs have also some fancy stuff on board
> and are not too expensive.

I wonder how the price of the P5010 will compare to the one of the eight-core P4080, which Freescale sell currently for as much as 380 USD.

> unfortunately the 5500 has not Altivec.

Yes, that's sad. If it would implement Power ISA 2.06's VSX at least...

> if someone would try to build new hardware for MorphOS now I would
> still rather recommend MPC 8610 or 8640.

Yes, reasonable choice. But that train left the station, I fear.

> The P5010 could be a good alternative to the ibm 476

Do you mean the LSI Axxia? After all, the IBM PPC476 ist just a core while the P5010 is a complete SoC CPU. If yes, I think the dual-core P5020 to be a better alternative to the dual or quad-core Axxia because the P5010 is only single-core.

Quote:

Easy: $45.5 (that's 380/8, cheapest joke ever - me ducks).

Quote:

Sure but... COuld there be a way to turn this around, and make that train enter the station back? See, perhaps, these chips are about to get veryu cheap soon. Oh, well, that depends if freescale really sells looots of them. Ouch...
Alright, price is not the only hurdle to build a computer around them, but it can only help. See, it's listed at two hundred dollars...

> $45.5 (that's 380/8 [...]).

Not quite. But nice joke :-)

> COuld there be a way to turn this around, and make that train enter the station back?
> See, perhaps, these chips are about to get veryu cheap soon. Oh, well, that depends if
> freescale really sells looots of them. Ouch... [...] it's listed at two hundred dollars...

"Interestingly, feanor revealed to have received a direct offer from Freescale for massively reduced MPC8610 pricing." (quoting myself)
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=6684&start=99

That project is still listed btw:
http://www.powerdeveloper.org/program/mpc8610
http://www.power2people.org/bounty_047.html (82% to go)

With MorphOS being available for G4 Mac mini I'm personally not too much interested in this train turning around because I'm not confident about the extent of real world performance advantage a 1.33 GHz MPC8610 or 1.25 GHz MPC8640 offers over the 1.5 GHz MPC7447A/B (+ Apple northbridge). It would be new hardware, though.