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You'd be surprised.. Microsoft don't own as much of the XBox IP as you might think.

Now, getting that IP core and putting it in a chip capable of interfacing with the Cell.. that's a difficult prospect.



[ Edited by Neko on 2009/2/5 19:12 ]

Well, if you are going to discuss the possibilities of running on the Xenon or Cell/BE processor due to the install base of a gaming community... The Nintendo Wii has the largest base of users and the Broadway processor, while actually slower than a Pegasos II's G4, is also PPC based. I understand that the general "hope" in this thread is for a faster system, but the Wii's hardware is much closer to the specs used by a netbook (of sorts), which is likely going to pick up steam in the future as more of those devices are deployed throughout the world's business offices.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I find myself looking at the conceptual prospects more than the specifics of running on a given platform. In other words, I find it of interest to see how MorphOS would perform in an environment where there is a smaller processor, but all memory--including data storage--is no longer bound by various mechanical drives (hdd's, cd rom, etc). Basically, the next logical step beyond the EFIKA.

Regarding the CELL, it is to my understanding that the technology hasn't really matured to the level it needs to be for use outside of the IBM/Sony nest. Other than the PS3 world--the thing is more closely related to "Issac Asimov's Foundation" than it is to "National Geographic."

> You'd be surprised.. Microsoft don't own as much of the XBox IP as
> you might think.

He explicitely refered to XenoN CPU, not to XenoS GPU.

> Now, getting that IP core and putting it in a chip capable of
> interfacing with the Cell.. that's a difficult prospect.

...especially as long as you are not able to buy Cells from IBM or distributors.

> the Wii's hardware is much closer to the specs used by a netbook
> (of sorts), which is likely going to pick up steam in the future

Just 2 points:

- only 88 MiB RAM
- closed GPU documentation

> Regarding the CELL, [...] the technology hasn't really matured to
> the level it needs to be for use outside of the IBM/Sony nest.

Yes, or to say it with the words of Ray Bryant, IBM's Director of Games and Power Solutions, as kindly brought to us by Jim in this very thread:

"IBM has not invested in the engineering work and documentation to support Cell BE as a standard, off-the-shelf component product that would be available for sale to anyone."

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IBM own that, too. I was merely making a point that you can buy every IP in the Xbox360 from the people who designed it.

Nearly everything in the Xbox360 is subcontracted out. Microsoft are not a Power Architecture licensee so they cannot make Power Architecture processors. IBM own all the technology inside for the CPU. AMD own all the graphics IP. The southbridge (USB ports, DVD drive, etc.) is by SiS I think.

You cannot buy the exact chips, but several analogs are available on the market from each supplier, and certainly nearly every IP component inside is not directly owned by Microsoft - I doubt Microsoft bought an exclusive license to SiS's USB and SATA controller, for example, or had a brand new core designed.

What Microsoft do own is the case design and the OS on top, the weirdo wireless protocol they use for controllers (and maybe the chip that drives it since it's probably very similar to the ones the Keyboard & Mouse division use), and of course a whole department for media and game provisioning, development and publishing, which is what makes a successful console.

Designed by ATI, Microsoft controls the IP of the GPU; meaning, Microsoft can manufacture and do what it wishes with Xenos (although contract states they can't stick it on graphics cards and start selling it to the public).

Microsoft has their own license to use and manufacture the CPU used in the Xbox 360, and thus we see their logo on the chip itself.

While Microsoft may have purchased the IP for the Xenon CPU from IBM, from what I've heard the processors have been manufactured by IBM and Chartered Semiconductor. Knowing IBM's past practices, this purchase probably doesn't prevent IBM from creating similar designs. In fact, I think I've seen a statement from Microsoft alluding to the fact that IBM could implement the enhanced floating point capabilities (of the Xenon) on other Cell and Power based products.

You're right, I don't have any personal insight in this chip, I just say what a little bird told me- however...

Most "manufacturers" outsource the actual manufacturing process to other companies, so yes IBM still builds the chip under the Microsoft brand :)
But it doesn't mean Microsoft are forced to use IBM as the builder, if they find another plant they could move the construction there.

And yes IBM still owns the underlying PowerPC core, nothing stops them from reusing solutions used on this chip. They just can't offer this product to other parties as it is.

Just curious but what enchanted floating point capabilities? the only difference except for multiplecores are the extended vector instructionset (VMX-128) afaik.