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Ah, thanks!

So far Daystar has shipped 1 (in words "one") upgrade!! Real shipping starts next month. So Daystar is exactly ahead of nobody. So it still depends when Freescale is finally shipping the 7448 in volume. Then everyone will be able offer upgrades....

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Because it costs a lot of money to put through a production run for such low demand. Imagine how much the 7448 costs (you can check this on the Freescale website) and multiply it by 200. Now add the board and production costs. Now add profit.

Not only might it be a rather expensive card, we would have 200 very expensive cards to hand which you may all freak out at because "we can't use AltiVec anyway".

Previous production runs of Pegasos and ODW have cost hundreds of thousands of Euro. That is a lot of money to sink into a cardboard box worth of equipment.

That's why we don't enter into this frivolously. You will see some results, eventually.

@tmhg etc.

Remember the Pegasos Platform is an open design!

Feel free to design a CPU card. The schematics are on the Power.org website for members. You can see what pins need to go where and what slot connections are used.. if you need design help just say so.

For anyone with a little electronics design experience and the correct software, it should be fairly easy to get something out of the door. Freescale are happy to give samples.

There may be some design work needed so we can coordinate a new firmware release for it. You may have to organise some kind of upgrade-plan (perhaps you can take G4 1GHz CPU and sell them to G3 owners, and the G3 ones you can.. do other things with? :) if you wish to placate users.

Genesi won't support a pre-order scheme but if your design is valid (we can and could support your design) then you could always do that.

What about a MorphZone bounty for producing a 7448 card schematic and prototype? If you want to start smaller, let's start smaller and wonder about a Gigabit Ethernet connector, from the northbridge slot to a PCI breakout, with a fly lead?

Silly ideas, or..? :)

Bug me if you're serious about it.

(about the soldering idea, that IS silly. Taking BGA components off boards is a complicated process. Soldering them back down again is just as hard. DCE provide services for BGA remount and reballing for a reason - it's not a hobbyist process)

[ Edited by Neko on 2006/3/15 9:58 ]

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I thought all your customers were Linux users, surely they can use AltiVec? ;)


- CISC

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That's why I wrote "They also have a close relation with Freescale, which I think is almost essential in this context."

@CISC

This is MorphZone. Nothing but whiners :]

Let's say 200 because we would expect demand here to be around 200 cards?

1.7Ghz 7448 is about $350. Multiply by 200, add board cost, now expect to pay a percentage for our profits, delivery, are you prepared for this? Do you have $100,000 for our outlay and a guarantee of sale of all 200 cards? :)

It's really as simple as that.

Neko,

> This is MorphZone. Nothing but whiners :]

---------------------------------

Who are all thoose whiners ? .-)

there is something that i don't really understand @Genesi. Fist, bbrv post on ppczone and mention a forthcoming CPU upgrade for the Pegasos/ODW (assuring it will come soon) then Neko post here ruins our hopes 3 months later. Do you guys communicate?

>1.7Ghz 7448 is about $350.

So you really have to pay 350 USD and the new Freescale policy forbids discounts for important Power.org members that showcase their technology in an award-winning mediabox concept?

Imho 200 USD would be appropriate.

[ Edited by tarbos on 2006/3/16 8:30 ]

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Right, and as you so accurately pointed out, this is MorphZone, so why are you asking us? After all we are about 0.001% of your market or so .. I guess that means it would be enough if we made a bounty for $100?


- CISC

[ Edited by CISC on 2006/3/16 12:58 ]

You're right the MorphOS market doesn't justify building 1.4GHz or 1.7GHz cards right now. Why would we do it to placate some RC5 teams? Did I really dash all your hopes to the rocks? I doubt it.

Would any users here really buy them on the basis that while they get 700MHz extra performance, that they will not be using most of it because they are still waiting for MorphOS 1.5?

The point I am making is simple:

It costs a lot of money to buy chips and put them into production for CPU cards. It needs to be paid for in advance. This makes a dent in our finances which can be recouped by selling the CPU cards. Until then we are left with significant assets in the form of stock in some closet or store room. Will the CPU cards sell? Will the CPU cards actually sell when offered at a price which covers the increased cost of chips?

Saying you will buy on a forum is all well and good but we would need to see a result of hundreds of orders coming through on the store.

I *PERSONALLY* don't think there is any market whatsoever for Pegasos CPU upgrades. What I do think exists is a market for Pegasos II boards bundled with faster CPU cards, RoHS notwithstanding.

There has always been an intention to move to faster processors (albeit unfulflled. There is still no commercial 7447A for Pegasos II).

But upgrade programs, CPU cards for individual sale only (not bundled) and other replacement parts is a whole other opportunity entirely and I know for a fact that we never formally stated that we would offer a 7448 1.7GHz CPU upgrade option for Pegasos II owners.

When we announced 7447A support we said it would be available WITH the Pegasos II or ODW, for example. It may have been available as an option with the Home Media/Communications System.

Bill's blog is his blog, this forum is this forum.. I would rely on press releases alone, and we have said this a lot in the past. MorphZone is not a primary news source.

(as such you can take this post with a bucket of salt, too. I am going to find out some facts for you now rather than my personal opinions..)

well, a blog is a blog, but PPCZone is another thing... it would be better if bbrv could avoid posting fake news on it.

you seem to ignore the Pegaos Linux users. That's why i want a faster CPU, not for MorphOS. My Peg2 runs awfully slow with latest linux distros when it runs good on my old Pentium3 800. That's why i need a faster CPU, and i'm sure u'd find lots of pegasos users interested in it @ppczone.
I thought the main OS target for the ODW was linux and not morphOS ?

@ Myself

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Replying to myself here - The Pegasos 2 is back in the Genesi store now.

The Efika is also available in batches of 10 units now, same price as before though.


@ Cisc & Neko

Do any of you feel that your little "childish" (if I may say so) nagging is adding something?


@ Neko

I find your argumentation here a little strange. Making small production runs of 200, 100 or even 50 units has never been a problem for Genesi before. In fact, that's how it has been done since the beginning. And while it's said that Genesi made a modest per-unit profit, you can't claim that anyone has ever expected to make a fortune out of those small production runs anyway; the reasons for doing them was something else. And some additional 700MHz (+70% CPU power and double the L2 cache) *would* make a difference, perhaps not for most people's everyday MorphOS usage, but certainly for Linux (and Open Solaris and other developments; compiling times for developers and even users (of Gentoo for example) should be greatly reduced, which would be very welcome). You wouldn't make a fortune on those CPU upgrade cards any more than you did before, but they would sell. And you (all) know that, so why go on like this?


@ SoundSquare

I'm pretty sure we will soon see faster CPU cards for the Pegasos!

@takemehomegrandma

i totally agree with you, I gave up on Gentoo (when it was my fav distro) because of the awful compiling times, and turned to Ubuntu (not that bad but i still prefer Gentoo). MOL would also benefit a lot from a CPU upgrade. (by the way wasn't it one of the unique Pegasos Features ? easy CPU upgrade ?)

may they hear you.

@ Neko

Well said... Thank You for taking the time to clarify your thoughts, and expand on the conversation. Some of us understand that the investment would be substantial, and might be better off being invested into the future of the company... I would still buy an upgraded CPU if it were available
And no I am not a whiner

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No venture, no profit <- mind that simley

I think many ppl running Linux would admire a faster cpu. You need faster cpu cards for coming PegIIs anyway.
Noone said produce 7448 cards for existing PegIIs *exclusively*...
Dunno how big and when the next pegII production run *with* faster cpus will be, but I am sure there will be a production run with faster cpus. Why not produce some more cpu cards then and try to sell them seperately?

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Erm, my post was meant as a reply to one of those "I don't need a faster CPU card, and if i don't need one nobody needs/want's one" - Similar behavior was once upon a time "I don't need/want PCI because Zorro is better, and the Amiga CPU's are not fast enough for these new PCI cards-Yes better buy a card that is more expensive(double or threefold) and slower..." and "'Why the Hell do you think they should use PCI Express and SATA for the "Pegasos 3" you surely are some kind of fanboi" - Yeah and using last Generation Tech is smart if you want to make a new design... (ok please forgive my excursion into my memories.)

But i appreciate that you took some time Neko, so that we got some insight into this CPU card issue. I also have to say that some Amiga Projects only have seen the Daylight because there was strong demand and even the will to pre- pay the goods - so it's not all about daydreaming and whining. If so, there wouldn't be the Cyberstorm PPC, USB and PCI add ons - even no Pegasos I/II. But i understand that there are new designs for Genesi HW that surely have more priority. And when people make AMIGA 500 out of FPGA chips, there surely is someone who could, eventually based on the original Genesi design, create a new CPU card layout - and make small batches at DCE. This said - i don't need one.

Bye




[ Edited by Donar on 2006/3/16 20:31 ]

I am interested in a Pegasos2 with fast G4 for MorphOS and Linux, which is ROHC compliant and all.

@Takemehomegrandma:
Sorry for not replying earlier to your post, I was away on a business trip.

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First, I've never said I am or will be designing anything at all. So please read my text before starting to make assumptions.
Also, I'm not trying to save the Amiga (newsflash - it's already dead ) or the pegasos or anything. I was just wondering whether it is wise to continue to wait or just try to do something about it (I'm sure that in the pegasos community there are people with the necessary skills to put together a 7448 CPU card based on the current design).

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I'm not talking about doing a better job, I'm talking about getting the job done. I think that Neko made it plainly clear (what is obvious), that the ROI ratio is very bad for such a commercial undertaking. Besides they have BETTER (as in profitable) projects calling for their attention (and money) .

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Nice troll!