Brainstorming...
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    serge
    Posts: 725 from 2003/2/20
    @ BBRV,

    Nice post, but it's only a post on a forum.
    Where is the oficial statement ?
    There is nothing on pegasosppc.com site !
    No press release?
  • »16.01.05 - 12:05
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    gary_c
    Posts: 67 from 2003/2/20
    From: Chiba, Japan
    So you're saying the morphos.net page really is speaking for the whole MorphOS dev team? Or what else might be going on, people-wise?

    I wonder what this break-up means for the MorphOS devs' funding? Apparently Genesi isn't going to license 1.5 directly from the devs, so are they going to try to sell it directly to end-users? That'd move the counters closer to zero, but I don't know how much closer, and would happen only after 1.5 ships and people start buying. Interesting situation/problems.

    -- gary_c
  • »16.01.05 - 12:12
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Gelb
    Posts: 148 from 2003/3/4
    From: #amigazeux
    > Nice post, but it's only a post on a forum.
    > Where is the oficial statement ?
    > There is nothing on pegasosppc.com site !
    > No press release?

    I take your post as an example out of all the posts made here and elsewhere that seem to have missed to check out the thread title.

    So, -->> check out the thread title! <<-- (thump)

    It looks to me as this "paper" isn't signed yet and BBRV were (roll the drums) BRAINSTORMING. :-D
  • »16.01.05 - 12:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    dholm
    Posts: 296 from 2003/9/1
    From: Malmo, Sweden
    Quote:

    > There is nothing on pegasosppc.com site !
    > No press release?

    I take your post as an example out of all the posts made here and elsewhere that seem to have missed to check out the thread title.


    Besides, how many companies do you know of that issue pressreleases on weekends?
  • »16.01.05 - 12:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    @ AMiGR

    I am under the impression that all IP has been transferred to Genesi.
    But now you are suddenly speculating it wasn't, and it would be
    interesting to know what you are basing those speculations on? Or
    perhaps not, since it's not up to you or me to judge anyway. It would
    be the only logical thing to do though, IMHO.

    Anyway, I hope David Gerber is satisfied with this situation he forced
    through. Instead of "ending an era" (as he says in the morphos.net
    title) this could mean that he and his followers (whoever they may
    be) are perfectly able to do whatever they like with their respective
    components of the OS. It's all up to him/them now. Hopefully they will
    form some kind of company and release their "1.5" parts as some kind
    of service pack to MorphOS 1.4 users. I think many would buy this, at
    least as an interim upgrade if for nothing else. I would. Say that
    half of the ~2000 (probably less, especially in the aftermath of his
    morphos.net community nuking) MorphOS users buys a "MorphOS 1.5
    upgrade" for a one time 50 Euro, that would mean - well not a lot of
    money to split between them after VAT, tax and social security fees
    (but after all, what company need a lot of money, isn't money
    something that magically just materializes out of thin air?). But
    since Genesi will continue to ship the MorphOS 1.4 with every sold
    machine, the potential user base for a 1.5 upgrade could perhaps
    expand over time? I wonder if he will still make it to the 2005-01-31
    date?

    If for nothing else it would teach him a valuable lesson about
    responsibility and managing a business of his own. I really think that
    everyone should run a business at least once in their life time. I
    have, and I can tell you that it is very educating and developing for
    your character. It's nothing for whining whimps though that quits at
    first possible setback, and throws everything in the bin.

    It will be interesting to see what he will do now. If anything at all.
    At least nothing is holding him back any more but his own
    entrepreneurial driving force.

    Or perhaps entrepreneurs aren't necessary to build a platform, when
    there are coders? That was obviously sarcasm; I mean, look at AROS and
    the lots of other OS's that never has become anything but a hobby of
    the developers ...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »16.01.05 - 12:54
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1926 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    Quote:

    What part of "Any new version of MorphOS for the Pegasos won't happen before the above counters reach zero" you don't understand?



    Well its been said that this is not the view of the entire team, only one person. If thats not the case we can say goodbye to MorphOS updates from here on out. Genesi has washed its hands of the OS as far as I can see.

    [ Edited by Acill on 2005/1/16 7:24 ]
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  • »16.01.05 - 14:20
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    DSLCC
    Posts: 246 from 2003/5/14
    From: Fort Worth, TX...
    Quote:

    He doesn't want anymore MOS1.5 'cause he doesn't want to pay. It's clear now ?


    Actually they don't have the needed money to pay, so they don't want MOS 1.5. Yes. It is clear. The place to get money would be from the sales of boards to MOS users. The sales are not going to be what was expected because of morphos.net, so they will not be able to support development past the $500,000 they have already paid. So the settlement is that they don't get paid for 1.5 development and Genesi does not get 1.5. Seems clear enough.
    Pegasos 1 G3 MorphOS 1.4.5* Mac G4 Sawtooth 1Ghz Tiger 10.4.1* Both Rock! :-D
  • »16.01.05 - 14:52
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    DSLCC
    Posts: 246 from 2003/5/14
    From: Fort Worth, TX...
    Quote:

    What part of "Any new version of MorphOS for the Pegasos won't happen before the above counters reach zero" you don't understand?


    What is hard to understand is the gernerality of the sentence. Are they saying that there will be no new version of MOS for the PEG ever even if it is funded by someone else or sold by the dev team. Are they saying that if Genesi does not buy a future version that all versions will stop forever? That is pretty narrow. All that hard work gone because 1 vendor did not have the means to pay. I don't think that is what they meant. MOS was started as an unfunded hobby project. It was funded for awhile ($500,000). It is not funded now. So why not just delete the source and get rid of it? Or why don't you just find another investor? Might not be easy without a professional image, but it is worth a try. :-)
    Pegasos 1 G3 MorphOS 1.4.5* Mac G4 Sawtooth 1Ghz Tiger 10.4.1* Both Rock! :-D
  • »16.01.05 - 14:59
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    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    Quote:

    What is hard to understand is the gernerality of the sentence. Are they saying that there will be no new version of MOS for the PEG ever even if it is funded by someone else or sold by the dev team. Are they saying that if Genesi does not buy a future version that all versions will stop forever?


    I understand it as no MOS1.5 for Pegasos. Everything else is open.
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »16.01.05 - 15:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1926 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    It will be hard to get anyone to invest in MorphOS after that morphos.net posting. I cant see any company in their right mind wanting to take a risk like that. The post did nothing more then make the developers look like children (not me thinking that, but from the outside it does) We all know it wasnt all of them thinking like that, but anyone outside MorphOS has no idea. I can see slow progress and dark roads ahead for some time to come. I hope I am wrong though.
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  • »16.01.05 - 16:00
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Genesi
    Posts: 239 from 2005/1/7
    From: Earth
    We don't really see the same darkness looming ahead. Since the beginning of the year (1 January 2005), we have shipped machines to Norway, Canada, Israel and the USA (Ohio, California, Illinois and Oregon). We even shipped a board to Malta! Two of the machines that went to California went to Sun engineers. In December, we added a couple new countries when we shipped units to Singapore and Korea.

    MorphOS went to all those places too.

    The hardware is what makes money for the Company and getting as many people using it for whatever operating system they want to use is the key. That is the value proposition. How about a 7447A CPU card upgrade? How about a new design based on the 7448 or that long-in-coming blade? What about something mobile with a MiniMac price? These things are all possible when you have enough development going on to support the future offerings. The ODW is getting solid use and good reviews. Sony Germany is adding another Pegasos Server and T-Mobile has deployed four Phantom2 application servers running on the ODW. This project even ties into Zend Canaveral.

    We have more opportunity today than we ever had.

    All this discussion conjures up another comical sequence some may remember...

    The Dead Collector: Bring out yer dead. [a man puts a body on the cart]

    Large Man with Dead Body: Here's one.

    The Dead Collector: That'll be ninepence.

    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.

    The Dead Collector: What?

    Large Man with Dead Body: Nothing. There's your ninepence.

    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.

    The Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.

    Large Man with Dead Body: Yes he is.

    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not.

    The Dead Collector: He isn't.

    Large Man with Dead Body: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.

    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm getting better.

    Large Man with Dead Body: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.

    The Dead Collector: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.

    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I don't want to go on the cart.

    Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, don't be such a baby.

    The Dead Collector: I can't take him.

    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel fine.

    Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, do me a favor.

    The Dead Collector: I can't.

    Large Man with Dead Body: Well, can you hang around for a couple of minutes? He won't be long.

    The Dead Collector: I promised I'd be at the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.

    Large Man with Dead Body: Well, when's your next round?

    The Dead Collector: Thursday.

    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I think I'll go for a walk.

    Large Man with Dead Body: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Isn't there anything you could do?

    The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I feel happy. I feel happy.

    <break>

    Good! Go for it! Take a walk. New ending...;-) Maybe we should have saved that for wrongpla.net -- STILL ALIVE II !! :-D
  • »16.01.05 - 18:08
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 370 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    I understand it as no MOS1.5 for Pegasos. Everything else is open.


    That's what it says but remember it was a statement directed at BBRV so you could probably replace "Pegasos" with Genesi.

    BBRV had already announced they planned to drop MorphOS some time ago but I think this announcement is the equivalent of signing the divorce papers.

    By holding MorphOS back from Genesi they would be an impediment to getting into the consumer market, MorphOS is like the original AmigaOS a consumer OS.

    The Mac mini has just made this all irrelevant so it really doesn't matter if Genesi has MorphOS or not. It'll not sell in the consumer market anyway now.


    Quote:

    I mean, look at AROS and the lots of other OS's that never has become anything but a hobby of the developers ...


    Remember how Linux started? It was once a hobby OS...

    The MorphOS guys could set up a "hobby company" which sells the OS and treat it as a hobby for now - It won't pay anyone if it's just sold on the Pegasos.

    If they want to actually get paid for their work they'll need to port to another platform.

    I'd like to see MorphOS run hosted on top of OS X, the developers probably wont like this as it'll hurt performance but if it sets itself up like a game this may not be so. It'll be complex to do but MorphOS could then hijack all the nice OS X services which they don't have, it'll be much more likely to be looked on favorably by Apple as it wont be a threat (not that MorphOS is a threat to OS X...). Another advantages are they wouldn't need to worry about hardware drivers as it'll all go through OS X and this means they wont need to support various different hardware configurations.

    As I said though, I doubt the developers will go for it, but then again replace "OS X" with "Quark" and this is remarkably similar to the existing long term plan for the A-Box...
  • »16.01.05 - 18:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2057 from 2003/6/4
    @ BBRV

    Who do you regard to with "core team of developers"? What about Ralph
    Schmidt? Isn't he still involved in Genesi?

    Since this ist still brainstorming and not fact, I would still
    appreciate a closer coupling of Genesi and MOS and support this
    idea (since I do not know the details this is only a rough scheme):
    Form a MorhpOS GmbH with Laire (major share) and you (2nd major
    share) and maybe (with regaring minor shares) some other core ppl or
    the BPlan guys (or whoever.. ).

    Let the MorphOS GmbH care 100% for MOS: Development of MOS would get
    some kind of a new start and become more independant, but still close
    associated with Genesi.

    All future developmemt and development contracts must be worked out
    with the MorphOS GmbH.

    And as a lesson from those bad experiences of the recent past: Trust
    only proper contracts, that is true for the both parties of every
    contract.


    Edit not: corrected 10% to 100%

    [ Edited by Zylesea on 2005/1/19 0:54 ]
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

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  • »16.01.05 - 23:09
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    serge
    Posts: 725 from 2003/2/20
    Quote:


    hooligan wrote:

    What part of "Any new version of MorphOS for the Pegasos won't happen before the above counters reach zero" you don't understand?


    If this is the truth, I'm very very sade because it's the end on the Pegasos adventure for me.
  • »17.01.05 - 10:05
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Get27
    Posts: 90 from 2004/8/23
    From: Vinzelles, France
    PM BBRV or contact your dealer to make a wish for refund.

    PM Magnetic for solving your network-problems.

    Stay on topic at hand.

    [ Edited by hooligan on 2005/1/18 7:10 ]
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    Amiga 500+, Vampire 500v2+, HxC Floppy
  • »18.01.05 - 00:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Genesi
    Posts: 239 from 2005/1/7
    From: Earth
    ...what is your real name Get27?

    Which Pegasos I do you have? Betatester? April 1? April 2?

    Was this one we exchanged?

    This is a good thread. So many good things are about to happen. Please go back to your cave.

    R&B :-)
  • »18.01.05 - 00:39
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    gary_c
    Posts: 67 from 2003/2/20
    From: Chiba, Japan
    Zylesea said, brillliantly:

    Quote:

    Who do you regard to with "core team of developers"? What about Ralph Schmidt? Isn't he still involved in Genesi?


    This is what I was wondering, also.

    Quote:

    Since this ist still brainstorming and not fact, I would still appreciate a closer coupling of Genesi and MOS and support this idea (since I do not know the details this is only a rough scheme): Form a MorhpOS GmbH with Laire (major share) and you (2nd major share) and maybe (with regaring minor shares) some other core ppl or the BPlan guys (or whoever.. ).


    I don't know about the best company structure for it, but I like the idea of MorphOS and the Pegasos continuing to be very close. To me, MorphOS gives Genesi something special and keeps Genesi from being "just a hardware manufacturer." Not that that isn't a good thing already, but the extra dimension that a cool software project adds is very nice to have.

    Quote:

    Let the MorphOS GmbH care 10% for MOS: Development of MOS would get some kind of a new start and become more independant, but still close associated with Genesi.


    I'm interested to see what can be worked out along these lines.

    Quote:

    All future developmemt and development contracts must be worked out with the MorphOS GmbH. And as a lesson from those bad experiences of the recent past: Trust only proper contracts, that is true for the both parties of every contract.


    This is the most important point! Get the bugs out of the faulty management, whatever they are. Try to learn from these bad experiences and improve for the future.

    Sorry for the extensive quoting but Zylesea's post really hits the nail on the head IMO.

    -- gary_c
  • »18.01.05 - 01:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    Get27

    Please dont over-react here. Also, this goes to Acill and Hooligan.. come on guys you are Amiga ppl and have been through worse. Look at what has happened in just 2 years with Pegasos/mos - now look at "amiga" side - 3 years to just get a damn t-shirt!

    Stick with the program. Morphos has not and will not stop.

    If anyone is having network troubles with their new peg, PM me and I will help.

    magnetic

    www.magneticsystemsnyc.com
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »18.01.05 - 02:11
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    poundsmack
    Posts: 1346 from 2003/6/8
    From: USA California
    i hope all this interest in the hardware generates enough revenue to justify the possible further development of MOS. if not the peg is a cool piece of hardware non the less. hopefully mos will be there with it when/if it succeeds. we can only sit here and wait for now i supose.....

    (sorry for the lack of incredible over optomism like normal...but this is as i see it right now....)
    "Poundsmack, official morphzone thread creator" -LorD
    "Wanna be lord of the avatars." -JKD
  • »18.01.05 - 03:15
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  • Moderator
    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    @Magnetic
    Quote:


    Please dont over-react here. Also, this goes to Acill and Hooligan.. come on guys you are Amiga ppl and have been through worse. Look at what has happened in just 2 years with Pegasos/mos - now look at "amiga" side - 3 years to just get a bless t-shirt!

    Stick with the program. Morphos has not and will not stop.



    Leave me out of the list.. I very much tend to keep my Pegasos2 and continue using MorphOS as my main operating system. It was Acill who wants to jump the ship, not me :-)
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »18.01.05 - 03:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    @ serge

    Quote:


    serge wrote:
    If this is the truth, I'm very very sade because it's the end on the Pegasos adventure for me.


    If this is the truth, I'm very sad because it's the end of the MorphOS adventure for me. If "the Official MorphOS Team" continues to work in some form (like a new formed company) but for some reason decides to abandon the Pegasos, they are also abandoning their *entire current user base*. And with that, they are also abandoning their most natural market for MorphOS updates. There is no way I am buying a new system just to run an updated version of MorphOS 1.4.

    Personally, I still find the Pegasos machines I have usable for both MorphOS 1.4 and other things. A silent Linux server for example, and I am very happy with them and will probably never sell them! :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »18.01.05 - 10:45
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  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 456 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    Quote:

    Leave me out of the list.. I very much tend to keep my Pegasos2 and continue using MorphOS as my main operating system. It was Acill who wants to jump the ship, not m


    Indeed..Thomas may have been thinking of me and not you ;-)

    I've been with an Amiga since 1989 and continuing since CBM went away...indeed spending many $1000s after their death in sw and hw.

    It gets harder to continue when seemingly the core MOS developers don't even care to commit to the movement they started.

    I don't want to go back to measuring progress in years, rather than months, weeks and days.

    I was never in it for the 'faith' (I'm no Amiga worshipper) rather for the excellence of the product, where it seemed to be going and I think we all like to be different from the crowd for various intangible reasons.

    If I go, everythings for sale at bargain prices

    [ Edited by JKD on 2005/1/18 9:54 ]
  • »18.01.05 - 16:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    AyoS
    Posts: 410 from 2003/8/13
    From: West Palm Beac...
    I think many on this list miss the point.
    without both sides speaking or working together in private, their is nothing to be said in public.

    Brainstorm all you want, but untill those in MOS leadership positions speak, their is nothing for any of us to say... bbrv included.

    Why brainstorm about our fears and fantasies, all you are doing is waisting computer time that would be better served being dedicated to Dnetc or other more worthwhile projects.

    Just kidding.... yet we keep talking about what if's, as if those with control are listening. IF their had been feedback from the Mos Dev leaders in the last few threads on this topic, I could understand... No new thing will be revealed untill those in charge decide to reveal it. no matter how much we want to know what the future holds regarding Mosdevelopment we will have to wait untill the Mos leader(s) decide on a plan.
  • »18.01.05 - 18:01
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    serge
    Posts: 725 from 2003/2/20
    @BBRV,

    la manipulation est un art dans lequel tu excelles. Toutes mes félicitations.
    Be :-D or not to be :-D là est la question.

    [ Edited by serge on 2005/1/18 22:17 ]
  • »18.01.05 - 20:16
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