I finally read an indepth review of the software in Total Amiga Magazine Issue 24. I once pre-ordered this expensive package for AmigaOS4, but started to have my doubts when I read some of Titan statements.

From TAM: "We don't normally review and rate partially complete products in Total Amiga (we'd normally call such an article a preview and give no score). As Papyrus is clearly such a product you may be wondering why we gave it a full and detailed review, so here is our rationale.

While it is clearly incomplete and buggy, Papyrus is being sold by Titan as a fairly expensive commercial product and we could find no mention on their web site that this is a preview or work in progress version. We felt this was reason enough on its own to do a full review. However we also bore in mind that very little information is available either from Titan or from other published reviews so we thought you, our readers, would be interested to get the low down on this product."

This got me somewhat puzzled as there were past public conflicts in which Titan alledged another party to do a low quality port for them, so they wouldn't pay the developer. The author stated something in response like he would have fixed any problem if he got feedback. Conisdering the amount of time which has past, either problems with Papyrus are limited or they did not put their own efforts where their mouth was.

Your opinions and experiences regarding this product?

P.S. IMO TAM is very nice, it also includes indepth MorphOS articles.

Professor Peruggi is a registered user of Papyrus Office if I remember well...

He could say us more about this suite.

I bought the Papyrus Ofice X one year ago. I'm registered user. And I can't use the Papyrus because of the application is very unstable, RTF not supported. More, there are no any updates of Papyrus since june, 2005.

So, I want to say: Papyrus is dead...

Hi all,

Papyrus Office X! 10.24 build29A Beta Jun 16 2005 is what i bought.
RTF, Papyrus reads that well, in Directory Opus, i've filetype for RTF
set to Papyrus. Also, you can convert a text with pictures to HTML.
However, the printer configuration window disappears, so you can't
configure printer. It can't print by me. Papyrus is the only programm
i want a faster Pegasos for; it's very slow ! Originally, Papyrus was
developed on Atari ST computers, so the graphical user interface is
different.

Grts, Amigaharry
http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/ex

I have same version. Yes, Papyrus can read RTF, but it can't export it. Please, read RTF, produced by Papyrus. May be, you'll see some words, but not the exported document.

Database... If you want to use it, you need to close other projects before.

And printer... Same version - same story.

BTW, there is Papyrus XII for PC.

I have exactly the same version as amigaharry and mobydick. And I have all the problems they already described, and many others...

When I bought Papyrus I wanted to write a review about this program. I never published it before, but now here it is:

"Papyrus"
"by DoctorMorbius_FP"
"After two days of testing I decided to use Wordworth again."

For the sake of precision, I must add that 90% of Papyrus code appears to run fine. All the problems come from a bunch of nasty bugs that, IMHO, Titan could fix in a few weeks (or months, depending on the number of coders).

Until now 16 months are passed in vain... Feel free to make your own deductions.

[ Edited by DoctorMorbius_FP on 2006/10/30 22:21 ]

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 05.10.2011 - 17:00 ]

I preordered Papyrus, and I was and still am very, very disappointed about it.

It is very buggy. It is very slow, especially screen refresh - it flickers like h*ll if you try to edit diagonal text. It cannot print. (A Word Processor which cannot print 8-O !)

I would NEVER believe that it was first ported to MorphOS and after this to AOS 3 (and 4?), if I would not know better. Even FinalWriter 5, which was released in 1996 at a time where kinda nobody ever thought about something like MOS, works pretty well. AmigaWriter (released in 2000) works well under MOS, too. So, why does Papyrus work so bad under MOS? It is hard to believe how bad it runs if you did not see it "running".

Again the printig issue... sure, the MOS TP is far from perfect, but most programs I tried do print very well, even if they initially were never meant to work under MOS (e.g. FinalWriter). But I cannot imagine why a word processor which was first ported to MorphOS (and after this to other Amiga related platforms) cant print on this platform when other, 10-year-old word processors print like a charm.

This is the reason why I probably never again will preorder some software for MOS. Thanks, Titan.

Do not buy it unless you like to throw your money outta your window.

[ Edited by Schlonz on 2006/10/30 22:48 ]

@ Velcro_SP

*The key problem is printing, but this is not strictly a failure of Papyrus. The TurboPrint that comes with MorphOS is not the latest and doesn't include several of the newer printers that are supported by the latest TP. I always had problems printing with Papyrus. I wish that Papyrus would include some specialized drivers for just a few modern printers, and then you could go out and buy the printer and not have to muck around. Or perhaps MorphOS team could include some printer drivers with the next MorphOS version. I'm not asking for a bunch of drivers, but three that work real well would be nice.

No, the problem is not printing with MorphOS. The problem is a nasty Papyrus bug.

Two years ago I installed TurboPrint 7.60 and used its specific drive with my Epson C84 printer. I informed people with a small article at that time. Every program on my PegasosII prints perfectly. I used a demo version of Papyrus sent by Titan for Pianeta Amiga 2004 and it prints, too. The newest version of Papyrus (June 2005) does not print on the same setup, just because the Print Setting window opens and soon closes without allowing the user to choose what to do!

And there are many more bugs that probably you never encountered...

[ Edited by DoctorMorbius_FP on 2006/10/31 0:17 ]

Quote:

Huh? Three that work well with what? Practically all printers need a special driver. Besides, as far as I know all the TurboPrint drivers work just fine with the printers they are meant to work with in the latest MorphOS release...

If you want more drivers you should just update TurboPrint (and ask for specific drivers in future updates when you do).


- CISC

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[ Edited by Velcro_SP 05.10.2011 - 16:57 ]

Hi all,

CISC says:

Quote:

If you want more drivers you should just update TurboPrint (and ask for specific drivers in future updates when you do).

Well
Hi all,

CISC says:

Quote:

If you want more drivers you should just update TurboPrint (and ask for specific drivers in future updates when you do).

Well the problem here seems to be that there aren't enough MorphOS users whe would use latest printers which come out on the market.

I had a contact with Florian Zeiler from Zedonet http://www.zedonet.de (Irseesoft changed the company name) and he said that the main
Turboprint program must be updated in order to be able tu use/port more easely the linux drivers to Turboprint Amiga.

He had sent me a "converted" driver for an Epson Stylus Photo 2100 A3+ printer, which I have, to test with TP Amiga under MorphOS.
I was able to print, and paper handling seemed to be ok but colormanagement didn't seem to work at all, even wrong colors were printed. As
per Mr. Zeiler here is why the TP main program must be updated...

All in all it would be GREAT to have that done, even a native MorphOS PPC version, so we could use all the drivers from linux...

Reagrds

Christoph

@ Velcro_SP

Now that you specify the version of Papyrus you used, I must say that I definitively agree with you. I have the latest 2005 version, but I tested extensively the 2004 version, too. There is no doubt that the 2004 version was more stable and bugfree.

It seems that the programming effort that generated the 2005 version has activated many new bugs in the code than those it removed. Unfortunately the new bugs were never fixed, otherwise none would complain now about a program that, in theory, should be very good.

Quote:

All well and good, but this is why I said you have to vote with your wallet .. that stuff is Mr Zeiler's job, and if you really want it to happen, tell him that you want it to happen...


- CISC

> All well and good, but this is why I said you have to vote with your
> wallet .. that stuff is Mr Zeiler's job, and if you really want it to
> happen, tell him that you want it to happen...

So in the end TurboPrint was actually meant to be placed in a Contributions drawer and you accidentially made it look like its part of MorphOS.

Quote:

Not at all, WYSIWYG. We only licensed the binaries you see on the CD, which gives you a complete printing package, and quite a few drivers as well, all for free...

If you want more (GraphicsPublisher or even more drivers) you have to pay for the update, if you want MorphOS native versions you have to tell Irseesoft that you want it (since we can't do that for you), and if you want to give Irseesoft an incentive to do that it sure can't hurt to tell them you are willing to pay for updates.


- CISC

> Not at all, WYSIWYG. We only licensed the binaries you see on the CD,
> which gives you a complete printing package, and quite a few drivers as
> well, all for free...

Ok, but ...

> If you want more (GraphicsPublisher or even more drivers) you have to pay
> for the update, if you want MorphOS native versions you have to tell
> Irseesoft that you want it (since we can't do that for you), and if you
> want to give Irseesoft an incentive to do that it sure can't hurt to tell
> them you are willing to pay for updates.

Entering the land of Off-Topic..

Imagine "The MorphOS-Team+Ralph Schmidt" (sorry, couldn't resist and I can't remember who wrote it this style but it was just too funny) would have made this deal with Genesi to have MorphOS sold with Efika with money flowing back to you for each sold copy, couldn't this money have hypothetically been used to pay Irsee for an all updated TurboPrint?

Considering you don't want to earn money with MorphOS at all (as its just what it looks like from the outside) this would have been a good thing, wouldn't it?

@ mobydick

Quote:

I think they should update their website with this information or just stop selling the product. As it currently stands the provided information is IMO too misleading.

Quote:
Wouldn't this be an half decent case for a bounty, or, even better, a self-bounty? Couldn't someone contact IrseeSoft asking how much it would cost us an updated TP to be included with MOS for the time being, compatible with the newer drivers distributed with the LinuxPPC version of their package - so that we could keep updating our drivers afterwards without costing much effort to them?

Kind regards,
Andrea

Quote:

Guruman wrote:

Wouldn't this be an half decent case for a bounty, or, even better, a self-bounty? Couldn't someone contact IrseeSoft asking how much it would cost us an updated TP to be included with MOS for the time being, compatible with the newer drivers distributed with the LinuxPPC version of their package - so that we could keep updating our drivers afterwards without costing much effort to them?

Great idea! I completely agree. This would cover any present and future need for printer drivers. And we would have a bounty that, at the same time, is in favour of the users, MorphOS, and IrseeSoft, too. What could be better?

People interested, please express your opinion!

Good idea !

I'll give some money for this good bounty !

Quote:

Sounds like a great idea, however one must make sure the bounty guidelines are pretty clear since you have a few issues to consider:

1) If it is to be bundled with MorphOS whoever donates to the bounty must be prepared for the fact that MorphOS at some point or another may or may not cost money.

2) In light of the above it might be a good idea for the package to be available separately as well to all MorphOS users.

3) Hopefully TurboPrint will still be developed and updated .. do you want this to apply to some fixed version or should there be some kind of upgrade plan?

4) The above will surely have a heavy influence on what the bounty target sum should be. The upgrade plan could consist of lumps of money from the bounty being set aside for future updates (or collected progressively) though.

5) People might consider it unfair (though less likely if also available separately) if MorphOS at some point costs money yet benefits from bounty money for its printing package, therefore this possibility must be made clear in the outline, however by doing so it's likely that far fewer people will donate...


- CISC

I'm using Pagestream for editing and it works fine. I think it's the best solution for text and defeats with ease Word in features. For the driver I still use Wolf Fausts' Studio. Its quality, even on my old HP 600, is outstanding. Perhaps we can ask him to update his program and printerdrives?

Regards Tom

Quote:
First of all, CISC, thank you for your answer. The problems you underlined should be indeed considered if this bounty is ever going to see the light of the day. I'll try to give my opinions about them here.
This first iussue shouldn't be a problem: the bounty is (even better, would be) for TurboPrint. We want a better, more compatible with newer printers, easier to mantain with as little efforts as possible from IrseeSoft side version of TurboPrint to be included with MorphOS for the time being. This shouln't imply that MorphOS has to be free in the future: it would only mean that the development of such particular version of TurboPrint would have been already paid. If the MOS team decides to give an additional "royalty" to IrseeSoft, coming from the sales of the OS in the future, it'll be their decision, and the donors shouldn't care (not that I think they would anyway). But this doesn't have to be a requirement.
Quote:
I agree. If the bounty is set up, I'd be all for making the result available at http://support.morphos-team.net . Of course it should be included as default in the coming MorphOS distributions and in the next releases, instead of the present version.
Quote:
Sadly we don't know if TurboPrint for MorphOS or even for Amiga will be developed further. One of the points of this bounty is, in fact, the possibility to let IrseeSoft decide how much they expect for a newer version. The advantage of the bounty is that in the worst case development can start only when (and if) the sum has been donated. The normal commercial release doesn't give a similar guarantee: they'd need to finish the work and release it, just to find that maybe 10 users would register/buy it.
Anyway, this is one of the reason why I'd suggest this to be a target for a self-bounty. IrseeSoft should tell us the minimal amount in order to develop the version complying with the simple terms above (mainly, compatibility with the new drivers of the LinuxPPC version that are available for download within the demoversion). And eventually a quarterly fee, or something like that, that would motivate them to keep the MOS version updated.
Quote:
As I said, I don't want anybody to do work for an amount of money I decide: IrseeSoft should tell us how much they'd require, and we (the community) will see if we can meet the target. This is the perfect candidate for a self-bounty. The normal bounties are for software that do not exist and anybody is free to take them as soon as they decide the sum is good enough. For a TurboPrint upgrade, the story is different and I'd let IrseeSoft decide.
Quote:
I don't think we'll consider unfair. We'd pay for a part of MOS, and if MOS at some point costs money, we know these money will be spent for the rest of the OS, which is just fair. I agree that this has to be made clear anyway, and, as I said, I'd suggest the first upgrade to be available as a download for all the registered users anyway.

I hope this can turn out in something useful. May I ask who should contact IrseeSoft for this purpose?

Kind regards,
Andrea