MorphOS on Sam460
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > onboard [...] audio are very limited and near useless ([...] sound was troublesome [...])

    Isn't it bearable with the latest driver?

    > SATA: only one device

    ...and no DMA.

    > Benefit for MorphOS team could be to focus just on AMCC460 SOC chip

    They can do this already on the Sam460ex. There's no obligation for an OS running on it to support the SM502 chip and the onboard SATA controller built into the PPC460EX chip. MorphOS could support the Sam460ex equipped with graphics card, sound card and SATA card. This way, there'd be no difference to running MorphOS on the Sam460cr.

    > first just CR support can be developed

    MorphOS on Sam460ex with no support for the components missing on the Sam460cr would equal full Sam460cr support, wouldn't it?

    > instead wasting time on EX support at least in early stage

    I guess the MorphOS Team has not wasted any time on supporting the SM502 or the onboard SATA controller anyway.

    > as this was mention as obstacle

    What exactly and where?

    > 719e for SAM460cr

    No, Sam460ex.
  • »27.10.14 - 22:57
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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    > SATA: only one device

    >...and no DMA.

    Well, I am not sure about this, I believe it has DMA, its just not supported for OS4, Linux install can do some test and should score higher performance.


    > Benefit for MorphOS team could be to focus just on AMCC460 SOC chip

    AW>They can do this already on the Sam460ex. There's no obligation for an OS AW>running >on it to support the SM502 chip and the onboard SATA controller built AW>into the PPC460EX chip. MorphOS could support the Sam460ex equipped with AW>graphics card, sound card and SATA card. This way, there'd be no difference to AW>running MorphOS on the Sam460cr.

    AW>MorphOS on Sam460ex with no support for the components missing on the Sam460cr AW>would equal full Sam460cr support, wouldn't it?

    Exactly my thoughts, well versed.

    AW>I guess the MorphOS Team has not wasted any time on supporting the SM502 or the AW>onboard SATA controller anyway.

    I ment in their usability limits. 2D performance scares me of an idea to use it,
    and sometimes its needed during Linux install.

    See 2D performance http://hdrlab.org.nz/benchmark/gfxbench2d/OS/AmigaOS?start=1300 and chip itself doesn`t have any 3D.

    Vox> as this was mention as obstacle

    AW>What exactly and where?

    As complexity to support, and you are right, not by developers.

    Vox> 719e for SAM460c

    AW>No, Sam460ex.

    Thanks for corrections, I ll try to double-check what I post before I post :-)

    Hope its around the corner, as well as some PCI-E cards support, which would be even greater advancement for all. But having one more board (or two if we count CR and EX as two models) is also a nice improvement.
    ------------------------------------------
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  • »28.10.14 - 21:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> SATA: only one device

    >>...and no DMA.

    > I am not sure about this, I believe it has DMA, its just not supported for OS4

    Yes, that's what I meant.
  • »28.10.14 - 22:03
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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> SATA: only one device

    >>...and no DMA.

    > I am not sure about this, I believe it has DMA, its just not supported for OS4

    Yes, that's what I meant.


    Official prices avail

    https://acube-systemsbiz.serversicuro.it/shop/en/5-sam-motherboards

    Sam460cr
    NewSam460cr 1.10 Ghz

    AmigaOS 4.1 included + RadeonHD 1.0 driver for FREE. It will work with several RadeonHD cards from all series (4xxx, 5xxx...).
    539,00 €


    Sam460cr Lite 1 Ghz
    NewSam460cr 1 Ghz
    AmigaOS 4.1 included + RadeonHD 1.0 driver for FREE. It will work with several RadeonHD cards from all series (4xxx, 5xxx...).
    469,00 €
    ------------------------------------------
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    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
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  • »31.10.14 - 13:35
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    I looked at the website. Everything out of stock?
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »31.10.14 - 14:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> I am not sure about this, I believe it has DMA, its just not supported for OS4

    >> Yes, that's what I meant.

    > Official prices avail

    Nice, but why quote me?
  • »31.10.14 - 16:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Their webshop however gives the message: "Warning: Last items in stock!" on this...

    They're all listed as being "Out of stock" now. Reason according to ACube:

    "we need to wait for the AOS4.1 FE CD from Hyperion."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=39502&forum=33&start=40#744080
  • »31.10.14 - 23:05
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Code letters are great, aren't they? AOS4.1 F*ck Everyone cd?
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »01.11.14 - 22:15
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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Their webshop however gives the message: "Warning: Last items in stock!" on this...

    They're all listed as being "Out of stock" now. Reason according to ACube:

    "we need to wait for the AOS4.1 FE CD from Hyperion."
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=39502&forum=33&start=40#744080


    Reason is more pragmatical then hardware related:

    a) Current AmigaOS 4 costs 105 eur and once shipped with 30 eur OS 4.1 final, it will overall be percieved as greater discount then pure difference in CR and EX boards.
    Note: In past you could contact Acube by e-mail for so called industrial version of boards - for purchase with no OS4.

    b) Current AmigaOS 4 cannot boot with many RadeonHD cards due to missing drivers. Mercy given that at least basic driver will be included, now when v2 on sale, means users actually could install it. There is a workaround to make a bootable CD with OS and driver, but that wouldn`t be out of box solution.

    A full installed computer would be a solution, where box is just a shelf display gem. Same situation is actually with X1000 users that got newer RadeonHD cards (6000,7000 series) - original X1000 OS4 CD cannot boot it, and one is advised to immediately backup installed system to CD. Even AmigaKit didn`t provide the CD, users had to burn it, however they did install the working and bootable OS with the driver.

    That is what one gots with "3rd party driver development" - not that I don`t support the Hans work - its just such sales policy presents some problems.

    So actually Acube waits for Hyperion, similar to X1000 being delayed because OS4 was beta for it. When I remember they initially promised OS 4.2 and X1000 on Summer or Autumn 2010 ... :-)

    Its said that Relec is first to offer it
    http://www.relec.ch/frch/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=21&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2&lang=en
    ------------------------------------------
    iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
    YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
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  • »04.11.14 - 21:28
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > they initially promised OS 4.2 and X1000 on Summer or Autumn 2010 ... :-)

    http://www.google.com/search?q=x1000+%22you+won't+have+to+wait+until+summer%22 :-)

    > http://www.relec.ch/frch/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=21&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2&lang=en

    This page lists the technical data of the Sam460ex, which should be corrected ASAP.
  • »05.11.14 - 10:14
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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > they initially promised OS 4.2 and X1000 on Summer or Autumn 2010 ... :-)

    http://www.google.com/search?q=x1000+%22you+won't+have+to+wait+until+summer%22 :-)

    > http://www.relec.ch/frch/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=21&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2&lang=en

    This page lists the technical data of the Sam460ex, which should be corrected ASAP.


    French Amiga shop lists correctly the board
    http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/2/6/ACU_SAM460CR#
    ------------------------------------------
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    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
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  • »07.11.14 - 21:36
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    I still want to know if the MorphOS port is for the SAM 460, SAM 460cr or both.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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  • »08.11.14 - 09:40
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2231 from 2003/2/24
    The CR is just a normal 460 with some minor parts left out.

    So no onboard SATA sound and GFX, none of them should be essential for MorphOS.
  • »08.11.14 - 09:46
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @Kronos

    It depends. If they port to the SAM 460 it would be enough to make working drivers for the onboard SATA and GFX (but that would propbably be a little weak). If they port to the SAM 460cr they only need to port any non-supported add-ons. They could ignore the on board chips on the SAM 460 of course and treat it like a SAM 460cr.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

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  • »08.11.14 - 11:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> no onboard SATA sound and GFX, none of them should be essential for MorphOS.

    > If they port to the SAM 460 it would be enough to make working drivers for
    > the onboard SATA and GFX

    Not supporting any of those on-board components (SATA, audio, graphics), as suggested by Kronos, would be even more "enough" :-)

    > If they port to the SAM 460cr they only need to port any non-supported add-ons.

    What is that supposed to mean?

    > They could ignore the on board chips on the SAM 460 of course and treat it like a SAM 460cr.

    Yes, that's exactly what Kronos has suggested.
  • »08.11.14 - 11:54
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    Quote:

    What is that supposed to mean?


    I mean that there is the Radeon series (9250 etc) that I know is supported, but that maybe there are some other important stuffs that do need new drivers.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »08.11.14 - 12:19
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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    Quote:

    What is that supposed to mean?


    I mean that there is the Radeon series (9250 etc) that I know is supported, but that maybe there are some other important stuffs that do need new drivers.


    Well, going for CR style make MorphOS / Linux / AmigaOS usage dependent on supported SATA cards, sound card and graphic cards.

    Little problem is that board has PCI-E big slot gone for gfx, PCI slot usually gone for SATA and PCI-E x1 slot left for sound card (or vice versa, for SATA card).

    I would prefer if they did better (multiply devices supported) SATA onboard as with SAM440, even putting M9 Radeon (9200 class) onboard was great and faster solution on SAM440, but SAM460 is what it is.

    Current MorphOS dilemma is: SoundBlaster Live! (emu10kx) is PCI only card AND
    SiI3x1x two-port cards is also. No W3D gfx card is avail as PCI-E, and out of all supported I believe only ATI Radeon X800 XT and some high end 9800 models are.

    This will make quite difficult supported platform unless drivers expand a bit - and since Radeons X800 are cheap and avail, I also think more of some PCI-E x1 SATA card or sound card.
    ------------------------------------------
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    Lame PC with AmiKit XE
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  • »10.11.14 - 11:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > putting M9 Radeon (9200 class) onboard was [...] faster solution on SAM440

    Faster than the SM502 on the Sam460ex, but not faster than a PCIe graphics card.

    > No W3D gfx card is avail as PCI-E, and out of all supported I believe only
    > ATI Radeon X800 XT and some high end 9800 models are.

    Radeon 9800 is not available as PCIe, and for the Radeon X800, the official Hardware Compatibility page lists no more than just the AGP-only R420 as the specific GPU supported.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATi_Radeon_R400_Series
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_R400_Series

    Regarding Warp3D:
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=9544&start=64

    Regarding PCIe graphics card support for Sam460:
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9876&forum=11&start=26
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9876&forum=11&start=36
  • »10.11.14 - 13:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > "for the 460EX, I am not surprised things aren't working with KMS & DRI2...
    > the 460 is not cache coherent"
    > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2012-February/019157.html
    >
    > "You will run into additional problems with 460 due to the fact that it's not
    > cache coherent for DMA."
    > http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2012-March/096888.html
    >
    > "DMA on 46x isn't cache coherent. The DRM plays interesting games with
    > mapping/unmapping pages for DMA by the chip and I don't think we have the
    > right hooks to do the appropriate cache flushing on these guys"
    > http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2012-March/096925.html
    >
    > Is this contributing to the porting difficulty? I remember that
    > Piru once said that MorphOS required cache coherency which he presented
    > as reason that MorphOS couldn't be ported to MPC512x. If a MorphOS port
    > to PPC460EX lacking cache coherency is possible, would that mean that a
    > port to MPC512x is possible as well?

    http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=news&id=131

    And in more detail:

    "on the 460ex CPU, coherency between memory and L2 cache can be managed via hardware snoop mechanism. Under some circumstances, the L2 controller may miss snoop-able write requestes and cause incoherency between L2 cache and main memory. To avoid this potential problem, the AOS4.1 kernel on Sam460 disable L2 cache write by default, slightly degrading performance. This utility enables L2 cache write and thus increases a little system performance. To be noted: IT MAY CAUSE SYSTEM INSTABILITY AND/OR DATA CORRUPTION if for some reason the OS perfom some operation which can cause incoherency between L2 cache and main memory, use it at your own risk ! [...] The best use of this utility is to run it before any intensive task (for example playing a movie) then disable it, and not leaving it enabled all the time, to avoid any potential coherency problem."
    http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=utility/shell/l2cache.lha
  • »15.12.14 - 23:04
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Addendum:

    > "for the 460EX, I am not surprised things aren't working with KMS & DRI2...
    > the 460 is not cache coherent"
    > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2012-February/019157.html
    >
    > "You will run into additional problems with 460 due to the fact that it's not
    > cache coherent for DMA."
    > http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2012-March/096888.html
    >
    > "DMA on 46x isn't cache coherent. The DRM plays interesting games with
    > mapping/unmapping pages for DMA by the chip and I don't think we have the
    > right hooks to do the appropriate cache flushing on these guys"
    > http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2012-March/096925.html
    >
    > Is this contributing to the porting difficulty? I remember that
    > Piru once said that MorphOS required cache coherency which he presented
    > as reason that MorphOS couldn't be ported to MPC512x. If a MorphOS port
    > to PPC460EX lacking cache coherency is possible, would that mean that a
    > port to MPC512x is possible as well?

    http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=news&id=131

    And in more detail:

    "on the 460ex CPU, coherency between memory and L2 cache can be managed via hardware snoop mechanism. Under some circumstances, the L2 controller may miss snoop-able write
    requestes and cause incoherency between L2 cache and main memory. To avoid this potential problem, the AOS4.1 kernel on Sam460 disable L2 cache write by default, slightly degrading performance. This utility enables L2 cache write and thus increases a little system performance. To be noted: IT MAY CAUSE SYSTEM INSTABILITY AND/OR DATA CORRUPTION if for some reason the OS perfom some operation which can cause incoherency between L2 cache and main memory, use it at your own risk ! [...] The best use of this utility is to run it before any intensive task (for example playing a movie) then disable it, and not leaving it enabled all the time, to avoid any potential coherency problem."
    http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=utility/shell/l2cache.lha


    Good thing that it at least is cheap. Oh, wait...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.12.14 - 23:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > They're all listed as being "Out of stock" now.

    Sam460cr listed as "Available":

    https://acube-systemsbiz.serversicuro.it/shop/en/5-sam-motherboards
  • »08.01.15 - 22:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > Postponed to a later release according to a comment from pega-1

    If all goes well, the current state of MorphOS for the Sam460 will be shown end of February at Geit@Home event.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=810315
  • »06.02.15 - 16:43
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  • vox
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 524 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    > Postponed to a later release according to a comment from pega-1

    If all goes well, the current state of MorphOS for the Sam460 will be shown end of February at Geit@Home event.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=810315


    Looking forward to it. But yet that is public presentation, not release. But I do hope for public one some time this year :-)
    ------------------------------------------
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  • »06.02.15 - 18:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Looking forward to it.

    "MorphOS will be shown on a fully supported Sam460."
    http://www.geit.de/eng_index.html

    I guess "fully supported" means it will be a Sam460cr.
  • »14.02.15 - 15:53
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