ARM for the future?
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    rebraist
    Posts: 96 from 2011/4/6
    From: Naples, Italy
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Call me the day arm will have a CPU that outperforms an Intel one...

    Current ARM cores are faster than many older Intel x86 cores :-)


    :D i guess a 486... :D
    Btw when time will come devs will choose the best "tool"
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  • »15.08.14 - 12:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:We'll definitely see more powerful ARMs in future. But Intel/AMD are also progressing. x64 will not just stay where it is now


    ARM is coming from a position of under 1W per core. You can grow a lot from there.
    x86 can't progress the same amount because they can't increase power. If anything they're going the opposite direction.

    Once you put an ARM core in a server you can increase the power quite significantly and these are starting to become available now. You can already buy this one:

    http://www.enterprisetech.com/2014/08/12/applied-micro-plots-x-gene-arm-server-future/.
  • »18.08.14 - 19:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > there's still LSI with its Axxia line of SoCs. It was PPC-only (PPC476FP) originally
    > but got ARM members (Cortex-A15) recently.

    The Axxia product line is now with Intel:

    http://investors.avagotech.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=203541&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1958352
    http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2014/08/13/avago-agrees-to-sell-lsis-axxia-networking-business-and-related-assets-to-intel-for-650-million
    http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2014/08/13/chip-shot-intel-agrees-to-buy-lsis-axxia-networking-business-from-avago
    https://communities.intel.com/community/itpeernetwork/datastack/blog/2014/08/13/intel-agrees-to-acquire-the-axxia-networking-business-from-avago-to-boost-wireless-access-networking-strategy
    http://www.linleygroup.com/newsletters/newsletter_detail.php?num=5216
    http://investors.avagotech.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=203541&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1990872

    Edit: added more links

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 03.01.2015 - 00:11 ]
  • »18.08.14 - 20:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Transmeta reloaded then.

    More news on that:

    http://hothardware.com/News/Nvidias-64bit-Tegra-K1-The-Ghost-of-Transmeta-Rides-Again/
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/2463900/nvidia-reveals-pc-like-performance-for-denver-tegra-k1.html
    http://techreport.com/news/26906/nvidia-claims-haswell-class-performance-for-denver-cpu-core
    http://www.zdnet.com/nvidia-details-denver-for-pc-class-performance-in-mobile-7000032525/
    http://www.linleygroup.com/newsletters/newsletter_detail.php?num=5205
    http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/none/326531-oracle-nvidia-arm-take-spotlight-at-hot-chips


    Edit: added some more

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 26.08.2014 - 11:14 ]
  • »18.08.14 - 21:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    "The Apple A8 is a 64-bit system on a chip (SoC) designed by Apple Inc. It first appeared in the iPhone 6, which was introduced on September 9, 2014. Apple states that it is has 25% better CPU performance and 50% graphics performance while drawing only 50% of the power compared to its predecessor, the Apple A7.

    The A8 is manufactured on a 20 nm process by TSMC which is a departure from previous processors for Apples mobile devices which was manufactured by Samsung. It has 1 GB of DDR3 RAM included in the package.

    Early benchmarking using the Geekbench application suggests that the processor is dual core, and has a frequency of 1.4 GHz. It also supports Apple's claim of it being 25% faster than the A7."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Apple_A8


    EDIT:

    From AnandTech:

    CPU: Enhanced Cyclone (i.e. "Cyclone gen 2") @ 1.4GHz, dual core
    GPU: PVR GX6650
    RAM: 1GB LPDDR3(?), possibly on-chip

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/8514/analyzing-apples-a8-soc-gx6650-more

    (Everything is still a bit speculative, not taken out of thin air but educated guesses based on the limited info available at this point. I guess things will clear up a bit some time after the 19th.)

    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma 10.09.2014 - 12:43 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »09.09.14 - 23:00
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    ...and there's more:

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/8554/the-iphone-6-review/3

    Someone on Realworldtech worked out that the SPEC int result should be 1493.
    To put it into perspective, that's just below a 2.5GHz G5.

    If that's not enough HiSilicon recently announced a 32 core A57 @2.6GHz.
  • »01.10.14 - 23:32
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    The 64 bit chips are starting to arrive.

    Applied Micro Xgene is apparently shipping.

    Nvidia K1 is or is soon shipping and getting some pretty stellar geekbench scores.

    Mediatech announced the MT6795 8 core A53 / Mali-T760.

    Samsung announced the Exynos 7, Quad A57 and quad A53 + Mali-T760.. The international Note 4 has this chip.

    Allwinner have a 64 bit chip on the way but don't seem to have said much about it yet.
    They do have a dev board on the way:

    http://liliputing.com/2014/10/allwinner-nobel64-is-a-64-bit-dev-board.html


    In the mean time they'll sell you a $4 quad core A7.

    I would have expected 64 bit to appear at the top end and slowly work it's way down.
    Look like they'll appear in the mid to low end stuff very rapidly indeed.
  • »19.10.14 - 00:45
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Tcheko
    Posts: 508 from 2003/2/25
    From: France
    http://www.tyan.com/campaign/openpower/

    Isn't that more sexier than those cheap ARM chips?
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  • »19.10.14 - 04:50
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    phoenixkonsole
    Posts: 140 from 2010/8/4
    For the saving in power consumption you could buy 4 ARM socs per year ; )
    Check Odroid XU3 it is on desktop level.
    The older U3 is already faster than a X1000 ...
    Compile FS-UAE GLES and you are done with AEONS systems.

    this is old
    http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=952

    http://linuxgizmos.com/odroid-hacker-board-jumps-to-faster-octacore-soc/

    x86 way to boring and PPC is dead except for special uses. Nintendo could replace the Gametablet of the WiiU with one with a 8core ARM system and stream the games from it to the wiiU -> this would be cheaper and way more modern.
  • »19.10.14 - 09:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Compile FS-UAE GLES and you are done with AEONS systems.

    Is UAE with PPC emulation also available for ARM?
  • »19.10.14 - 13:42
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    phoenixkonsole
    Posts: 140 from 2010/8/4
    I didn't checked the latest fs-UAE dev builds but dependencies are all available.
    Fs-UAE is available for arm for a long time (2years for pandora).
    http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=653

    Problem is that the last ppc additions haven't been commited yet into that branch.
    This could be solved If there is really interest.
    I would donate a bigger sum as soon xu3 like devices are availble for less than 100€.
    Than ppc emulation starts to make sense.
  • »19.10.14 - 13:56
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Is UAE with PPC emulation also available for ARM?

    > the last ppc additions haven't been commited yet into that branch.

    Thanks for answering.
  • »19.10.14 - 21:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    phoenixkonsole wrote:as soon xu3 like devices are availble for less than 100€.
    Than ppc emulation starts to make sense.



    There are Android TV boxes at around $90 on ebay that should have similar performance and have a better GPU.

    Just search for "RK3288" It's a Quad A17


    The 64 bit ARM chips will probably be better at emulating PPC. They have the same number of registers which should make mapping between them easier.
  • »20.10.14 - 00:36
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    phoenixkonsole
    Posts: 140 from 2010/8/4
    Now the Quad A17 makes even more sense
    http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=90706#forumpost90706

    Any mind change regarding MOS on WinUAE?
  • »24.10.14 - 17:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > http://www.freescale.com/files/training/doc/dwf/DWF13_APF_NET_T0795.pdf [...]
    > QorIQ LS2045P: - 4 x e5500 [...]
    > QorIQ LS3400P: - 20 x e6500

    Mentioned in http://www.powerpc-notebook.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/LinuxDay2014_Mi_presentation_pub_en.pdf (page 12, apparently copied from a Freescale document) for 2016 time frame:

    - LT1082P: 4 x e6500
    - LT1042P: 4 x e6500
    - LT3160P: 8 x e6500
    - LS3xxxP
  • »31.10.14 - 19:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Now I get a little bit confused....ARM is relasing planning Cortex-A17 (over A12) ...
    > ....ok..A12 has no big.LITTLE...

    In order to ease the confusion, ARM has decided 2 months ago that there's no A12 anymore and has merged it into A17:

    http://community.arm.com/groups/processors/blog/2014/09/30/arm-cortex-a17-cortex-a12-processor-update
  • »29.11.14 - 19:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > this thing has 48 (!) 2.5GHz 64bit ARM cores. Half a Terabyte memory per chip and
    > you can gang a pair together with a coherent bus. PCIe, SATA etc is all built in.
    > Mind = boggled.

    Now available:

    http://www.cavium.com/newsevents-Cavium-Announces-Availability-of-ThunderX.html
  • »03.12.14 - 16:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > this thing has 48 (!) 2.5GHz 64bit ARM cores. Half a Terabyte memory per chip and
    > you can gang a pair together with a coherent bus. PCIe, SATA etc is all built in.
    > Mind = boggled.

    Now available:

    http://www.cavium.com/newsevents-Cavium-Announces-Availability-of-ThunderX.html


    Wow! :-o
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.12.14 - 19:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    The 64-bit hardware is starting to appear now: Applied Mocro X-Gene dev board.

    Not exactly super cheap ($895 promo for the 1.6GHz version) but it's the first out there and does have 8 cores.

    There's a video here.
  • »15.12.14 - 13:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Yeah, definitely not cheap (and that was also a promo price), but still very interesting to see this. It's actually a full fledged desktop motherboard, 3rd gen PCI-E for real desktop GFX card, SATA 3 for HDD, etc. Eight core 64-bit CPU, up to 16GB RAM (the SoC itself supports up to 256GB RAM), etc, etc.

    This is "Samantha Done Right" (but of course this didn't exist back when Acube did the Sam)... ;-)

    Anyway, very expensive, but open for everyone to buy, no licenses, no NDA's, nothing like that. More is bound to follow, and the price is bound to come down drastically in the future for products like this.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.12.14 - 15:41
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Seen this on slashdot the other day:

    40 linux friendly single board computers

    Mostly ARM based but there's also MIPS and a few x86s in there as well. Alas not a single PPC.

    There are some they've missed, Qualcomm and Nvidia boards aren't mentioned and neither is the firefly.

    I don't think there's any 64 bit boards yet but Allwinner already showed one.
  • »03.01.15 - 14:29
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    TomKeric
    Posts: 146 from 2013/2/18
    From: Stockholm
    Do you think it would be realistic to do something like MOS did with the old MAC PPC´s with old iPads/iphones/android phones with this kind of more advanced ARM builds in a few years, e.g. install a future ARM-MOS version onto a phone and run it like a computer?

    (connecting your phone to a monitor/TV,Keyboard, mice is a commodity already today,

    I understand we are far from this but I just want to know if you tekkies think it is realistic?

    (Also I have noticed that tappdevices are taking larger and larger chunks of the % of webbpages visited from the clickdevices so that webbdesigners are soon in need of making tappdevice design first and clickdevices second this perhaps also need to be considered for future strategy for MOS not to get too stuck into clickdevices with their OS ?)
    -If you've never failed, you've never tried -
  • »03.01.15 - 20:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Do you think it would be realistic to do something like MOS did with the
    > old MAC PPC´s with old iPads/iphones/android phones

    At least with Apple devices this wouldn't be feasible as Apple SoCs are not documented for 3rd party OS vendors.

    > webbdesigners are soon in need of making tappdevice design first and clickdevices
    > second this perhaps also need to be considered for future strategy for MOS not to
    > get too stuck into clickdevices with their OS ?

    I don't see the connection between website design and the design of a desktop OS.
  • »04.01.15 - 07:30
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Do you think it would be realistic to do something like MOS did with the
    > old MAC PPC´s with old iPads/iphones/android phones

    At least with Apple devices this wouldn't be feasible as Apple SoCs are not documented for 3rd party OS vendors.


    It would be nice to port to an ARM device that does not come automatically with Linux. Linux is everywhere and I hate that. But MorphOS developers would have to reverse engineer the "Apple" device. And perhaps they just shouldn't consider the "Apple" device.

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > webbdesigners are soon in need of making tappdevice design first and clickdevices
    > second this perhaps also need to be considered for future strategy for MOS not to
    > get too stuck into clickdevices with their OS ?

    I don't see the connection between website design and the design of a desktop OS.


    Because most website designers are stupid. They make the websites with touch screen mobile device as priority. The website renders as compatible for the touch screen mobile device, even on a desktop / laptop device. I hate touch screen device. Touch screen device loves to malfunction. And morphOS must not be reconfigured into a touch screen operating system! Certainly not like iOS, Android, or even Windows 8! Even if the mobile device has option of external keyboard and mouse / track pad they still have annoying oversized screen "buttons".

    An alternative solution should be that MorphOS support the touch screen laptop. ... The one with the traditional "click" interface and keyboard with the secondary option to touch it with a pen or stylus.

    Another alternative solution is to have device with touch screen but has the primary option of keyboard and track pad. Example is BlackBerry usually does this and the interface with keyboard and track pad which also displays a mouse arrow! :-)
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »04.01.15 - 13:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    >> in terms of 64-bit ARMv8 (AArch64) cores, there is announced so far:
    >> - Cortex-A53 and Cortex-A57 from ARM Ltd.
    >> - Denver from nVidia
    >> - X-Gene from Applied Micro
    >> - Thunder from Cavium
    >> - Cyclone and Typhoon from Apple

    > - Vulcan from Broadcom
    > - K12 from AMD

    - Mamba Kryo from Qualcomm

    http://semiaccurate.com/2015/01/21/name-qualcomms-64-bit-post-krait-core/
    http://semiaccurate.com/2015/01/26/roadmap-qualcomms-taipan-core-wrong/
    http://www.qualcomm.com/news/snapdragon/2015/03/02/cognitive-computing-and-custom-cpu-drive-next-gen-snapdragon-processors
    http://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2015/03/02/qualcomm-previews-next-generation-snapdragon-experiences-mwc-2015

    - Cortex-A72 from ARM Ltd.


    Edit: added another link
    Edit2: corrected name of Qualcomm's core and added links
    Edit3: added Cortex-A72
    Edit4: added Apple Typhoon

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 01.06.2016 - 19:11 ]
  • »24.01.15 - 11:15
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