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MOSNet stage #2
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 408 from 2004/7/15
    From: Russia, Moscow
    Hello! Looks like most of people came to a conclusion that now 1st priority is the following:
    1. Work out all usergroup.library issues (if any).
    2. Add inetd.
    3. Add TCP: device.
    This is large enough task so i would accept this as a second bounty.
    Where is Targhan? Why are these pages not updated? I'd like to see something.
    iPod, iBook, iMac,... iRobot?
  • »07.04.06 - 08:42
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Bladerunner
    Posts: 418 from 2004/2/19
    I know that I will be flamed to ground now, but there is a point when enough is enough... You are "accepting" a second bounty ?! You deliver a crappy half ready stack (and I really don`t understand why people are so happy about it) suddenly pushing it to "final"(even if it wasn`t ready) and now you are asking for another bounty to make things a bit more complete (but still missing such essentials like.. err.. well a gui???)?
    Well it seems I was right when I thought that guy is just behind the bigger bounties on Aros and Mos.. With that behaviour you simply prove that. Ok, probably I am not allowed to criticize that behaviour either, as I didn`t donate a cent for that stack, but now I am happy I didn`t and I hope no one else will (well I still hope 1.5 comes soon enough and makes this attampt of a tcp stack obsolete)
    I know, hard words.. And I know, certanly none will agree with me, but that had to be said, really!
  • »07.04.06 - 11:22
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1731 from 2003/10/19
    From: Gilbert, Az.
    I have to agree the stack is not what it should be. Its slower then the emulated Amiga ones and doesnt have a gui as the the requirments pointed out. It does however do the job and anyone that needs to get online with MOS and doesnt have Miami or Genesis can with it, so its better then nothing I guess. For the ammount of money you got for doing it I had hoped you would put more time into updating it as time passed out of your good will. I guess I was wrong.

    As for Targhan I have no idea where he is and I cant update pages for the bounty site still.
    http://www.acill.com

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  • »07.04.06 - 11:41
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    merko
    Posts: 328 from 2003/5/19
    I must defend the project. I have been critical of it, because it was
    clear from the start that this was based on an old stack and would
    never be very good. But since the "official" stack is delayed longer
    and longer, I think it is very useful to have *something*. Yes, it's a
    bit slow, but this should have been expected from the start.

    Personally I have Miami and now switched to MOSNet. It's slower, yes,
    but Miami was quite unstable and the connection would regularly go
    down, often requiring a reboot to be restarted. MOSNet is much better
    in this regard. I still have a problem with MOSNet when there are too
    many connections (like when using bittorrent), the connection will
    fail then and cannot always be restarted without a reboot.

    IMO a GUI would probably be too much work, at least if we don't want
    to abandon any hope for the 1.5 stack. I think any future work on
    MOSNet should better be to make it work as well as possible with the
    things people commonly use it for. I would like:
    a) a somewhat better installer and *very* clear instructions
    b) fixes for known issues

    But I really do hope for the 1.5 stack still so I don't think it's
    worth it to spend a huge amount of time eg making it faster or
    creating a GUI. Btw, regarding usergroup, it seems to me that it does
    not use env:HOME properly (or at least I can't make it work with
    bittorrent).
  • »07.04.06 - 12:15
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Wishmaster
    Posts: 342 from 2003/6/29
    I am using MOSNet too now.
    It works quite good.
    A GUI is not needed IMO, only a small doc how to set it up would be helpful.
    It can be sped up by editing general.conf. Set

    TCP_SendSpace=10000
    TCP_RecvSpace=10000

    or even more like 50000.

    (spelling error corrected)

    [ Edited by Wishmaster on 2006/4/8 13:57 ]
    Pegasos PPC
  • »07.04.06 - 13:36
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 66 from 2003/10/5
    From: Rapallo (GE) I...
    Well, I'm using MosNet since last xmas so I feel
    right to put my words too.

    I really don't pretend (and don't need ;) better support
    for usergroup.library, inetd and TCP: - a gui perhaps
    would be more nice for me, and removing as many linux
    dipendences as you can would be nice too.

    What worries me is about slowness. I'm not speaking so
    much of that 10/20% vs. miamidx emulated when using
    internet, I'm rather speaking of SERIOUS slowdowns in
    local traffic when using SMBFS. I tried playing with
    SENDSPACE and RECVSPACE without success: if I can fix
    dld, then upld slows down and vice-versa. A complete
    documentation would be HIGLY APPRECIATED.

    Also I'm a bit disappointed because I already wrote
    you privately months ago without any answer. And I
    tried many times to subscribe to the MOSNet ML without
    success.

    BTW I prefer using MOSNet which is native rather than
    MiamiMX emulated, even if many ppl tells me I'm stupid.
  • »07.04.06 - 13:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    catohagen
    Posts: 296 from 2003/5/20
    just some comments on mosnet:


    It works fairly well, but speed could be better, i have no idea what does it but sometimes i get 6-7mb/s and sometimes 2-3mb/s. In a good day, upload speed and download speed is average 5-6 mb/s.(local network)

    Sometimes it just stops working, this seems to be random and everything else works(morphos stuff) solution is to reboot. this happends rarely here, but its annoying.

    Using rdesktop nearly all the time, i get full systemlock (mouse hangs) from time to time, but i dont know if its rdesktop or mosnet, also very annoying as i cant remember this happening in miamidx.

    For another bounty i agree inetd is a possible one, but
    fixing usergroup.library and maybe make the gui is a requirement from the previous bounty ? I havent checked but i think a gui is listed in the requirements ?

    A seperate bounty for inetd is good, and if some people
    are interessted they could dontate, but set some bounty limit, maybe 50-100 dollars is enough ?

    but first i agree that the existing quirks should be removed from current mosnet before starting a new bounty.
  • »07.04.06 - 14:16
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    merko
    Posts: 328 from 2003/5/19
    Wishmaster: Thanks a lot for the tip, this should solve my stability
    problems too. These things should definitely be documented a bit
    better and in one place!

    Anyway I think a new bounty for MOSNet makes little sense.. to me it's
    just an "in-between" solution anyway. But I was wrong the last time so
    I could be wrong again, of course. I also didn't expect Sonic to
    manage a fairly well working port this soon. But anyway.. I would
    prefer him to work on some other bounty for some project that can be
    useful for a bit longer time.
  • »07.04.06 - 15:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    Sonic

    For the amount of money you got for this project that checklist should be completed gratis imho..

    It still baffles me that the bounty got that high and baffles me further that it has been cashed out and the stack is worse than the exsisting emu 68k stacks we have had.

    I appreciate the work you did, but feel this was an overpaid project. And agree with Acill on some points.

    magnetic
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »07.04.06 - 16:23
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    merko
    Posts: 328 from 2003/5/19
    I think that
    a) It was good to see that the bounty got a fair amount of money in
    it, BUT, it's still not that much considering the work involved.
    b) When judging what "should be done" for the bounty or not, you'd
    better look at the specs for the bounty. No one will ever want to take
    up a bounty again if people think they can later include tons of work
    that was never specified in advance. As far as I can tell the bounty
    was about porting this old AmiTCP version, nothing else. Then people
    should not complain about issues that are not the fault of the porter.
    c) At least for me, MOSNet works better than Miami, so I don't agree
    that emulated stacks work better.
    d) As far as I can tell the point of this bounty was not to make a
    *better* stack anyway (in that case an AmiTCP port would have been
    unrealistic) but to make an *available* stack.
    e) So finally, I hope that Sonic will fix any bugs that people manage
    to find, but again, please don't try to enlarge the bounty
    retroactively.
  • »07.04.06 - 16:40
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    catohagen
    Posts: 296 from 2003/5/20
    >TCP_SenSpace=10000
    >TCP_RecvSpace=10000

    i use (in mosnet:db/general.conf)

    TCP_SendSpace=8192
    TCP_RecvSpace=8192

    you have a spell error too :)


    you can also add to samba (samba:lib/smb.conf):

    socket options = so_rcvbuf=2048 so_sndbuf=2048

    for faster transfers from between mosnet and other
    computers on local network.
    Without this line it crawls in my network.

    smbfs shares are fastest in shell here, you can also
    try to play with buffers in shell transfers ie:

    copy <smbfs mount> testmovie ram: buffer 10000
    copy <smbfs mount> testmovie ram: buffer 100000
    copy <smbfs mount> testmovie ram: buffer 1000000

    you could see speed differences and find a suitable buffervalue
  • »07.04.06 - 17:03
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    merko
    Posts: 328 from 2003/5/19
    Ok, as someone corrected me, the bounty specs clearly say there should
    be a GUI.

    I'm not really sure if this bounty has been paid in full or only
    partially (there seems to be different info on different pages).

    I'm not sure what is best to do here, but I do feel that spending a
    lot of energy to make this stack into the most polished piece of
    software available would be a waste of time. It's based on old stuff
    and clearly the stack that is being worked on for 1.5 will solve many
    of the issues people have with MOSNet. I think bounties are a good
    idea basically, but I don't see the point of making people do
    duplicate work. MOSNet as it is is good enough to get a basic
    connection and that's a huge improvement over nothing. But further
    effort in this area should surely be directed towards getting the more
    up-to-date and polished stack worked on by the MOS Team.
  • »07.04.06 - 17:11
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Gelb
    Posts: 148 from 2003/3/4
    From: #amigazeux
  • »07.04.06 - 17:20
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    merko
    Posts: 328 from 2003/5/19
    Gelb: Tried using the log tool? If you got the same problem as me with
    bittorrent, it's related to the very low buffers, catohagen's options
    should fix it. Didn't notice any enormous CPU loads yet. Resolving
    hostnames taking lots of time is due to weird config in resolv.conf,
    just comment away the lines and it will be normal.

    Personally I didn't expect anything at all, and the current state is
    something that has many faults but is definitely usable. That's worth
    something even if, after re-reading the bounty specs, I agree that it
    is not finished. But I'm not sure how much sense it makes to try
    and finish this project as stated in the bounty specs.
  • »07.04.06 - 17:42
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    realstar
    Posts: 258 from 2003/2/24
    From: Canada
    I am pretty happy with MOSNet in general. As far as a GUI goes, the MiamiPanel
    support is a reasonable way of making the stack simple to use. The additional
    proposed features are not really needed for general use. I appreciate
    the work Sonic has done on MOSNet so far but would have to say another bounty
    doesn't make any sense.
  • »07.04.06 - 17:54
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    catohagen
    Posts: 296 from 2003/5/20
    >Hello! Looks like most of people came to a conclusion that now 1st priority is the following:

    not yet

    from the mosnet bounty requirements :

    Must support DHCP, have a MUI or other GUI that includes all necessary classes or use default MorphOS 1.4.5 classes.


    1st priority should be the gui, as the bounty isnt complete yet.
  • »07.04.06 - 18:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 159 from 2003/10/24
    From: Portland Orego...
    I'm running MOSNet and am fairly content with it. The specs AFAIK on the gui were not defined in what it had to do. So bickering over that is mute as there is a gui that works with it. Performance of the stack is sub-par (troughput, and DNS (probably more stuff I don't realize)) and should be corrected before any new bounty is allotted for. I don't have an issue modifing text files for configuration, but a gui that would allow you access to those things would probably help a lot of people.

    As far as the whole 1.5 thing goes and having a IP stack, has it be released? Nope. Might as well slate it up there with OS4. Make due with MOSNet or something else, but don't support another bounty until the one is fixed and funtioning as one would expect for an IP stack.

    JMHO
    --Mithalas
  • »07.04.06 - 18:46
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Gelb
    Posts: 148 from 2003/3/4
    From: #amigazeux
  • »07.04.06 - 18:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1731 from 2003/10/19
    From: Gilbert, Az.
    Now come on, the stack is as I said better then nothing and it works in most cases. The GUI is not done and IMHO the bounty should not have ever been paid. Making a GUI for another app, heck you cant even call it a GUI its more of a status panel then anything else, is not how it should work.

    In any case I cant see how this is a 1.0 release and I am not happy with it. That does ot mean I dont like what Sonic has done. I actually like it a lot and he put in a great job so far. It just need more polish to be a fair solution for what we all put into it.

    [ Edited by Acill on 2006/4/7 11:12 ]

    [ Edited by Acill on 2006/4/7 11:13 ]
    http://www.acill.com

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  • »07.04.06 - 19:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    catohagen
    Posts: 296 from 2003/5/20
    @Mithalas

    >I don't have an issue modifing text files for configuration, but a gui that would allow you access to those things would probably help a lot of people.

    Me neither, and its not like you need to edit stuff every second day either, but it is stated as a requirement for the bounty so
    it should be done before Targhan releases the bounty money.

    Sonic knew the requirements before he started.

    All of the bounty(1600usd) have been payed without meeting all the requirements, i big mistake by the Bounty Team i would say.
  • »07.04.06 - 19:26
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