> I could care less

;-)

Here's a video.

https://youtu.be/vj2NszdqDeo?t=44s

With nothing else loaded except OS4.1 itself, you have a glorious 73MB(!!) left to play with. The person doing the demonstration is basically reduced to just running benchmarks.

> Any word on Warp3D?

As far as I know, integrating MAME's Voodoo3 emulation is still planned.

@Cego:

EDIT:

Nevermind. You have nothing to back up what you say. redrumola pretty much is spot on. Nothing more to reply to.

Excellent job, red.


/thread

[ Edited by TheMagicM 20.02.2016 - 15:23 ]

Sorry TheMagicM, I have to double slap you down here

Quote:

Not so fast with that!

Quote:

Unlike OS4 Classic on UAE, Geos on a highly expanded Commodore 128 or 64 is actually still useful. Here's a video i made a few years back. I'm now using Geos 64 with a TurboChameleon 64 and will make videos soon.

Video link.

> single core frequency hasn't improved in a decade.

But performance per frequency has.

> maybe Toni is going to implement multicore support into WinUAE
> so that 68k CPU, PPC, Custom chips etc will be emulated on
> different cores, which would result in even higher performance.

m68k and custom chip emulation are not really relevant for OS4, so they won't increase OS4 performance when executed on different cores. Besides, m68k and PPC are already emulated on different cores when running OS3+WarpOS/PowerUP.

> OS4 *CLASSIC* is not even a full OS4 distribution, it is largely stripped.

What's missing compared to other OS4 distributions?

> With a high end i7 desktop, you [...] won't come close to a lowly Sam460ex.

What about Sam440?

Quote:


You do realize I said 1600cc right? That's not a 1600cc vw engine, it's much bigger and has a turbo

I'll take the second slap. I offended GEOS users. LOL

[ Edited by TheMagicM 20.02.2016 - 18:41 ]

Quote:

Well yes and no. The engine probably started it's life as a stock 1600cc engine, but the actual displacement would have been increased by modifying the block with bigger crank, cam and cylinders. Below all that stuff added on is likely a genuine 1600cc block

Quote:

Yup! It doesn't take much to make my case that Geos is far, far more useful on an expanded C= than OS4 on UAE.

[ Edited by redrumloa 20.02.2016 - 19:48 ]

Quote:

Block probably the same, but cylinder sleeves are replaced. Different once you start changing internals. Crank is the same size, stroke is different, bore is bigger also, heads modified also. (Drag racing is my hobby...building a turbo Camaro as we speak)

[ Edited by TheMagicM 20.02.2016 - 20:20 ]

Quote:

well there are already benchmarks stating that the emulation is already on par with an G3@500MHz
and btw we are comparing winuae with morphos here, not OS4.1
Things will change and they are changing. On an i5 @2,3GHz OS4.1 boots up in 25 seconds. and according to sysmon benchmarks it's even faster in aspects of IO then A1 machines. come to think that PPC emulation is still in the beginning. Oh and qemu is one of the slow ppc emulators...
so sooner or later it'll be competition when it comes to performance. marketing and sales related it is already a challenging competitor.
there are restrictions right now like limited ram and missing voodoo 3 drivers but those things are a matter of time.

check this https://amigafun.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/winuae-powerpc-huge-speed-increases-with-amigaos4-1/

I don't care if it's slow as a frozen snail or 2000% faster than the real thing. It's still emulation and I care little for emulation. This is why I got a MiST instead of settling for WinUAE, even though WinUAE is so much better at the moment. I can stand "hardware emulation" but I only use emulators like WinUAE when playing a game or a demo. It just doesn't feel like the real thing which is why I don't use it to run Workbench on it.

The question is really how many people reason like me. If a lot of people who buy AOS 4.1FE for Classic to run in UAE sticks with it and start to make programs or at least use it as a normal computer, then you are right that this move was a good thing for the community. But if most people think like me and just turn it on from time to time to play with it for 15 minutes or so, then you are basically where you where before.

I don't know which of the two scenarios are true. Both is plausable. I do think having emulation as an option is a good thing/good move. But I don't agree that it's going to be a killer feature that "steal" users away from MorphOS, or even AmigaOS 4 users on real hardware.

> PPC emulation is still in the beginning.

QEMU's PPC emulation has been existing for 12 years. How long does 'beginning' last?

> qemu is one of the slow ppc emulators...

At least it's faster than the PearPC core used before.

> there are restrictions right now like [...] missing voodoo 3 drivers

As said, what's missing is Voodoo3 emulation. Voodoo3 drivers are there in AmigaOS, hence the choice of this particular graphics card to be emulated.

@andreas

i mean that qemu emulation and optimizations in winuae are at the beginning. sheepshaver PPC emu is a lot faster afaik. maybe that could be an option for the future.

Quote:

You hit the nail on the head. Ultimately, who wants to run a Amiga-like OS in an emulator under Windows. I'm with you Yasu, I dont. The last time I used WinUAE is to build a compact flash card with Workbench 2.1 for my Amiga 500 with a kipper2k board. If I didnt have that board, I wouldnt use WinUAE. So the last time I actually used WinUAE has been years, not even to play a game. I have an Amiga 500 for games, actual hardware. So if the other side is happy running WinUAE, more power to them. I dont care. I use MorphOS on *real hardware*, not emulated.

Taste differs. For daily usage I don't care how the system is actually impemented as long as it gives me a good experience. If an emulator is fast, reliable and kind of genuine I wouldn't care if the system was emulated. Thing is yet no emulator can beat a G4 >1 GHz. But I wouldn't exclude MorphOS on an emulator generally.

Of course taste differs. Thats not the point. The point is that until we know if there has been an increase in actual usage of AmigaOS 4 as a result of emulation support we can't draw any conclusions about it. That it has sold well is a given, but we don't know if this means there are more AOS4 users now.

Quote:

http://www.chip.de/downloads/WinUAE_12996915.html

Almost 150.000 downloads of WinUAE, and that only from that site. And i think some of those are also using some version of a fully configured amigaos.

People like you probably dont understand, but with WinUAE support there is the biggest amiga market available now for OS4. There is a huge potential to gain many new users (if it's done right). And you only have to pay 30 Euros.

You cant get more mainstream compatible than this in the amiga market even when you had a native version of aos or mos for x64, you'd still be limited to a small hardware basis.

this way you can make it run on any x64/86 plattform.
there are disadvantages like the emulated PPC speed but this will change sooner or later.

i dont know why you keep bragging about "it's no competition". Even MorphOS devs say that they find it challenging when theres new stuff available in OS4.1

Besides that, fanboys like you are constantly talking about OS4. why? MorphOS and AmigaOS are also running on the same hardware which means they are direct competitors.

You ask "who wants to run amiga like OSes on emulators", but it's the same with 10+ year old hardware. who wants to run an 111 Euro OS on an outdated hardware?

when it comes to modern and available hardware like the sam and X5k, MorphOS is more expensive.

and when people like you are willing to accept the handicap of using 10 year old hardware, then for me theres no problem at all with using OS4 on an emulator.

you are laughin about OS4 and it's restrictions but at the same time you're pretty fine with your own restrictions.

which eventually leads me to the conclusion that you're a blinded fanboy full of OS4 hatred not able to put things into perspective


[ Edited by Cego 21.02.2016 - 20:03 ]

>>> PPC emulation is still in the beginning.

>> QEMU's PPC emulation has been existing for 12 years. How long does 'beginning' last?

> i mean that qemu emulation and optimizations in winuae are at the beginning.

You mean that Toni Wilen is optimizing QEMU's PPC emulation for WinUAE. If yes, do you have a source for this?

> I use MorphOS on *real hardware*, not emulated.

It's not as if there was a choice anyway, is it? ;-)

i'm not that much into it, so i cant tell. maybe you ask toni himself. He did some changes to the ppc emu part so that it got faster. Wether it was something in qemu itself or the way winuae implements it, i dont know.

but in the link above you can see that after some changes in the ppc emulator part of winuae it got a lot faster.

> when it comes to modern and available hardware like the sam and X5k

"Available" is certainly debatable.

> MorphOS is more expensive.

MorphOS for the Sam460 is 49 EUR, which is the cheapest license (together with the Efika 5200B license).

Sam460 version of OS4.1 costs 29,95 Euro at Vesalia.

> Sam460 version of OS4.1 costs 29,95 Euro at Vesalia.

I failed to notice you were comparing with OS4 at that point. Sorry.