> AROS is not source-compatible with AmigaOS 3.1.

It may not be 100% compatible at this point. Actually, it's 82% compatible with AmigaOS 3.1 according to http://aros.sourceforge.net/introduction/status/everything.php (as of 6 years ago), but it clearly aims at full source compatibility, hence the restrictions.

> You get that most functions from amiga os are not compatible with amiga os

I've a hard time believing this "most functions" (i.e. >50%) claim (assuming that one of the two "amiga os" occurences means "aros).

> because they were never tested with 68k software.

Isn't this what OlafSch and wawa have been doing for years?

> ZUNE is worth nothing crap which is far away from MUI 3.8 from 1997.

MUI has not been part of AmigaOS 3.1, so Zune's MUI compatibility status has no bearing on AROS' source compatibility with AmigaOS 3.1.

Quote:

Aros is source compatible, there are small differences on library level like missing or unimplemented fuctions but also new ones compared to 3.5 f.e. but it is very compatible. The 68k branch also is binary compatible and MUI 3.8 and even the newer one (however you call it) can be easily used by copying. Developers are indeed testing it together with Aros 68k and compatibility has improved considerably in recent time. Your posting does not sound like you having any experience with it so where do you know current state of Zune?

[ Editiert durch OlafSch 09.06.2016 - 11:59 ]

Quote:

nobody (or at least almost nobody :) ) realistic expects such a solution outperforming modern hardware. I do not know where you get your numbers, the last information I had wad that it runs comparable to 68060 100 Mhz. Also it includes lots of new commands so software can be optimized and run faster on it. Yes it is a toy and I do not expect it to overrun the market, it is filling a need in the 68k community where people wanted better hardware for their aging amigas and that at least affordable. So it fills the gap there but 68k is still way faster running in UAE on modern hardware. Amiga today is a retro market mainly with at least parts of the community being interested in better software and that needs truecolor, more processing power and more ram (partly much more ram). BTW at the moment all PPC options are toys compared to modern platforms because of no up-to-date browser and no Javascript JIT even beaten by simple smartphones.

[ Editiert durch OlafSch 09.06.2016 - 12:10 ]

>>> vampire [...] is still slower than 68060 80 MHz

>> That's not true from what I can see from reports and videos. Vampire V2
>> seems about as fast as an accelerator with 120 to 175 MHz 68060.

> Vampire with core5 in sysspeed [...] get 95,73 MIPS while
> 68060 80 MHz get 106,10 MIPS.

SysSpeed's MIPS "benchmark" seems flawed, as are most MIPS ratings actually. What are the results of the other SysSpeed benchmarks?

> I do not know where you get your numbers

He wrote where he got (i.e. selectively chose) them from :-)

I do not know how realistic all these benchmarks are. But if it now performs like 68060 80 Mhz or 100 Mhz most amiga users (here I mean the old amigas) do not own one of the rare expensive old accellerators so if you want a upgrade card that is not costing a fortune (if you find one on ebay or other sites at all) you do not have any other realistic chance. It is already offering fast processor, 128 MB and RTG, I think planned is also chipset (SAGA) and better sound.

[ Editiert durch OlafSch 09.06.2016 - 12:08 ]

The MIPS figure for the 68060 are still pretty impressive.
I have a project I am working on (not Amiga related) that uses a 20 MHz 68HC000 and the MIPs/MHz ratio is a fraction of the '060's figure.

But since I need the E output clock, an overclocked 68HC000 is the best option for me.

Sysspeed is well known, reliable benchmark.
Sysspeed works on almost every amiga configuration.
There ara many sysspeed results called modules on aminet.

>> What are the results of the other SysSpeed benchmarks?

> There ara many sysspeed results called modules on aminet.

Unless there're also ones with Vampire2/Apollo results, your answer to my question doesn't make sense.

"Happy" users of vampire post many screenshots from syspeed working on vampire.
Poor performance of vampire is no secret.
You just have to find it.

> "Happy" users of vampire post many screenshots from syspeed working on vampire.
> Poor performance of vampire is no secret. You just have to find it.

Why so secretive? Just give links to some of these "many screenshots" showing also SysSpeed benchmarks other than MIPS for Vampire2/Apollo.

It is easy to find. Just try.

> It is easy to find. Just try.

I did, and what I've found shows that Vampire/Apollo is way faster than 80 MHz 68060.

Quote:

you completely miss the point...

even if that would be true you are not able to get any 68060 80 Mhz accellerator out there or if only for a fortune

if you talk about economic choices then your nick is also wrong because buying embedded hardware at price of high-powered standard hardware makes no sense either

> embedded hardware

It's not, as I told you yesterday.

Quote:

yes it is a embedded system pretending to be desktop even beaten by any smartphone

so even if it has some features typical for desktop hardware when you look at processor, graphics and so on it is embedded class

perhaps we can agree it is a desktop mainboard with processors designed for embedded market

2 Core with 1.8 Ghz is nothing I would today take seriously for new hardware anymore. New PPC processors (if developed at all) are mostly targetting embedded market or you have IBM with their series. Freescale is obviously dropping PPC now.



[ Editiert durch OlafSch 10.06.2016 - 12:57 ]

> it is a embedded system

No, it's not. Please look up what the term means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_system

> pretending to be desktop

It does have features typical for desktop like RAM slot(s), SATA/USB/GbE, PCI/PCIe, audio (Tabor, Nemo) and HDMI (Tabor). It's not just pretending it has these.

> when you look at processor, graphics and so on it is embedded class

It's "just" the processor (CPU core) that is "embedded class". Graphics is provided by a desktop-class PCIe graphics card in a PEG slot. What does "and so on" mean?

> perhaps we can agree it is a desktop mainboard with processors
> designed for embedded market

Yes, that's exactly what I've been saying all along.

> Freescale is obviously dropping PPC now.

There has been no Freescale for a while.

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11100&forum=3

Yes, NXP is clearly in the process of dropping Power Architecture for new chips. According to their product longevity program, some Power Architecture chips will be available until 2029 (QorIQ) and 2031 (Qorivva), respectively.

13 years would be more than adequate for our purposes.
I would still love to see an e6500 based system (and a T10xx mini itx board would also be nice).

Quote:

I just check.
Google still exists and returns many pages with screenshots from sysspeed on vampire.
On all of them vampire is slower than 68060 80 MHz.
You have to use google again.

> Google [...] returns many pages with screenshots from sysspeed on vampire. On
> all of them vampire is slower than 68060 80 MHz. You have to use google again.

No matter how often I use Google, it will always return screenshots where Vampire2/Apollo is faster than 80 MHz 68060 in the benchmarks I asked you about.

http://www.google.com/search?q=sysspeed+vampire&tbm=isch

Google returns many pages with screenshots from sysspeed on vampire.
On all of them vampire is slower than 68060 80 MHz.
You have to use google again.
Hint: use words sysspeed vampire and then check pages.

Quote:

does it?

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=35

from december so the core is even faster now

I found a polish thread where the 95 Mips are mentioned... it seems to happen when you use higher resolutions and more colours. I remember discussions that it slows down the system a bit, I think related how it (RTG with framebuffer) is implemented in FPGA. But I assume they are already working on a solution to solve that problem. And you still miss the point... where is the 68060-80 accellerator with graphic card you can buy? And if something is offered on ebay it is in price range of a X64 high-equipped desktop or notebook. People are interested in upgrading their old amigas so there is no other option. And if making a realistic rational decision buying PPC would be as rational as buying a Vampire, wouldn´t it?



[ Editiert durch OlafSch 11.06.2016 - 19:39 ]

>>> Google [...] returns many pages with screenshots from sysspeed on vampire. On
>>> all of them vampire is slower than 68060 80 MHz. You have to use google again.

>> No matter how often I use Google, it will always return screenshots where
>> Vampire2/Apollo is faster than 80 MHz 68060 in the benchmarks I asked you about.
>> http://www.google.com/search?q=sysspeed+vampire&tbm=isch

> Google returns many pages with screenshots from sysspeed on vampire. On all of
> them vampire is slower than 68060 80 MHz. You have to use google again.
> Hint: use words sysspeed vampire and then check pages.

No matter how often I use Google, it will always return screenshots where Vampire2/Apollo is faster than 80 MHz 68060 in the benchmarks I asked you about.

http://www.google.com/search?q=sysspeed+vampire&tbm=isch

Dear Andreas You use google in wrong way.
In way You use google it not return single screenshot from sysspeed on vampire where vampire is faster than 68060 80 MHz.
You have to try again.

Quote:

then link one screenshot to proof your claims instead of lecturing Andreas

please...

and still you do not answer my comment...

please inform us where you can buy 68060 accellerators in the same price range as Vampire

[ Editiert durch OlafSch 12.06.2016 - 15:51 ]