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Well, i guess we can say that any port of that kind is years away and i really don´t think we need any PPC or 68K emulation then. In fact with all the 64bit, endian, memprotection involved a full size emulatior would be required to run old stuff, but for what?

Most of the current applications are already available in C source or the developers are still active. So if the classic API compatiblity sails over the cliff most of the stuff will require more or less just a recompile.

If you currently take a look onto your system and count the 68K applications you really need this is more or less nothing and till then it will shrink even further.

Yeah, some old games will fail, but well. Thats live. I don´t see a point in spending tons of human resources in a development which benefits are quite limited. They are better spent in creating a fully featured replacement instead of still sitting on ancient software anyone would love to replace.

This stuff could be added by some third party, like its done on windows with WinUAE, but I do not think any OS developer needs to be involved here.

[ Edited by geit 13.10.2015 - 00:14 ]

what did rj mical actually say when he was shown MorphOS?

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http://media2.giphy.com/media/HlFDE0DEp9Gq4/giphy.gif

...but in a good way...

> if the classic API compatiblity sails over the cliff most of the stuff will require
> more or less just a recompile.

Doesn't API incompatibility imply source code incompatibility?

> what did rj mical actually say when he was shown MorphOS?

I guess he congratulated the MorphOS team for the progress they made since he was shown MorphOS by Piru 12 years ago :-)

https://morph.zone/modules/news/article_storyid_254.html
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44985
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=http://saku.bbs.fi/lehti/online/44/ajankohtaiset/rjmical.html
http://saku.bbs.fi/yhdistys/tapahtumat/rj/valokuvia.html

I am ready for MorphOS-NG. If that means throwing out backwards compatibility completely, so be it.

I think it is fair to assume 3rd party will get us UAE in a reasonable amount of time. It sounds like UAE may get more robust PPC support in the future. If the MorphOS team soften their stance on emulator usage, the PPC side of compatibility may fall in line by 3rd party too.

Either way, MorphOS-NG is needed. I hope it gets front burner soon. If the MorphOS team need funds, I'd throw into a bounty or a Kickstarter. The development team have the best track record and are the most competent I have seen. What they have done with the resources at hand is impressive.

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[ Edited by redrumloa 12.10.2015 - 19:18 ]

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So, no-one replied to tolkien, so, just a little reminder question, is there is native PPC Pagestream version 5.x.x.x been developed / working specifically for MorphOS &/or any other Amiga-like platform?

I took a look at the Page Stream site, and it hasn't been updated since 2011. I hope that answers your question :)

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Agree...
No sense to keep the backward compatibility further. The amount of usable old stuff is very limited. The memory protection/SMP/more RAM gives more value to MOS, than the execution of old stuff.

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Yes.

People were able to test it at the Amiga 30 event in Neuss, Germany. MorphOS developer Frank Mariak had spent a considerable amount of time before the show to ensure that it could be shown.

@ASiegel

Awesome! Any etd?

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No ETD defined afaik (as usual).

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For me the biggest hit would come to productivity software side currently. I still use many 68k painting programs (fxPaint, ArtEffect, Photogenics, TVPaint, etc) and office programs (FinalWriter, AmigaWriter, etc). There still aren't any good native programs on those areas, and it would be a huge task to create that kinds of "major" programs from scratch.

And then I use 68k Magellan2 all the time, but theoretically there could be a working port of it by then :)

Then there's lack of small native utils in certain areas... where I still use 68k programs. Like mp3 tag editors, virus killers, internet utils (DCTelnet, netmount, RC-ftpd, etc), and few nice shell commands I still use... I have feeling that for some of them there won't be new native versions to fill the gap ever :)

And one big loss for me would be the loss of 68k filesystem compatibility. I use to prep / copy stuff a lot to Amiga mass storage devices to be used in the real 68k Amigas. It's been so easy and quick to do that when devices just mount to a MorphOS machine automatically.

And of course loss of ARexx. I don't think the native port of ARexx would come any more probable than it's been for years now. There is Lua now of course, but there are still that many useful Arexx scripts still, and many programs rely on it... unless someone goes and ports them all to Lua :)

Not sure how many 68k libs, mui classes, devices, etc are still critical too... and something else I'm not thinking now :)

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No.

Parts where software hacked/accessed system structures need to be rewritten for sure, but beside that it simply should work.

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Well, those 68k mui classes, devices and etc will be obsolete when not using 68k applications anymore. Virus scanner? Seriously?

Sure we have no proper office applications. But those are even so old that a simple UAE can deal with them. Still not need to invent some PPC emulator.

However. You don´t know what will be available in 2017. Maybe those gabs are already closed by then. Who knows.

[ Edited by geit 13.10.2015 - 17:31 ]

There is one solution to the compatability problem: keep using your PPC MorphOS alongside your NG MorphOS until there is enough new software to take the place of the old. Your old computer is not going to stop working with an ISA shift.

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Yeah, I go through a lot of old Amiga stuff occasionally and it's a LOT quicker scan them on MorphOS than on a real Amiga :) Not to talk having much more storage on MorphOS machines...


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In a more optimal situation it'd be nice to see new general features still updated to PPC MorphOS alongside the NG version. That way users could happily continue using the PPC version, if old compatibility matters more than those features NG would offer, but maybe it's too demanding with the resources available...

[ Edited by jPV 13.10.2015 - 14:24 ]

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I thought the whole concept of MorphOS was to implement something like MacOSX did where you could run the classic OS inside a sandbox alongside the new modern OS.

Wasn't it the purpose of the ABox ?

If that's the case, as long as the OS runs on a PowerPC CPU, there is no compatibility problem. Of course, if running on x64, we can forget it.

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I'm afraid you are a bit optimistic.
Dropping all these 68k stuff will be for sure a drawback for most users. :)

We will have to re-implement a lot of libraries and small tools. Till now it was not done because the 68k versions did the job and performance was not an issue; but in case of 68k compatbility drop, a lot of small tools/libs will have to be re-done from scratch.

Not a big deal, but a lot of work.

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I'm not concerned with backwards compatibility, it was more a question of what will we use for our old stuff.

I'm all for any version of MorphOS that gives us the ability to move forward and make it easier for software to get ported or developed for this system. If it means leaving PPC, so be it. PPC *now* is ok, but in the long run is a hindrance. x86 gives us the raw power and access to much cheaper hardware.

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We'll get UAE quickly for sure. Hopefully a proper port of WinUAE will be easier. WinUAE would give us everything we need up to OS3.9 and Pup/Wup. Most important MorphOS native software can be recompiled. There will be a handful lost, but the gain certainly will be worth it.

PowerMac G5 w/MorphOS was the logical conclusion for me as an ex-Amiga user. They accomplished pretty much everything I wanted out of an "Amiga" over the years. The short time I owned a CyberstormPPC left me longing for exactly what we have now. Besides wanting a few things polished up in support of the G5, I think the whole PPC thing is played out. We need to get out of this sandbox and into the major league. I don't quite understand the left turn into OS4 hardware land, but this is their baby and they haven't disappointed yet. Hopefully this left turn doesn't last long and we get back on the highway.

Not as much a direct reply to you TheMagicM, more of a coffee fueled ramble

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I agree. I love my G5 with MorphOS. Best damn money I've spent on a computer in a long time. Moving to X86 will put MorphOS into territory covered by other "free" OS's like SkyOS for example.

> "free" OS's like SkyOS

Hasn't SkyOS been dead for years?

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=11342&start=74

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I'm not sure about that cheaper. Can it get much cheaper where we are now? :) Ok, for new computers maybe, but used and as fast as new systems are bargain currently. In any case, remember that it's been said, that the "NG" will be some fixed hardware still even on x86. You can't expect that any machine would magically work then. Probably some newer x86 Macs, which might not be that cheap still.

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MorphOS on PowerUp is 3.10 as well.

We just did not update as we wanted to show the system running and not spent all day to fix a broken update installation.

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No, this line of thinking needs to stop. The MorphOS Team has stated repeatedly it will certainly NOT be Mac X86 hardware. It makes no sense to target Mac.