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Reading comprehension. Go back and re-read what I posted... Wait.. I'll get it for you.

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Apparently you and Cego do not understand. There isnt a "?" at the end of that sentence. So its not a question. Let me get the actual paragraph for you (and Cego...he's really really slow).


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Ok, what the above first couple of sentences are doing is me stating that what this OS4 emulation thing boils down to is "who wants to use an emulator" and "who wants real hardware". Reading comprehension. We are all here to learn, hopefully you and Cego now understand a little better?


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Yea I know. I gave an example of using Amiga hardware. Cego said that if I'm "happy with 10 year old hardware and its limitations"... so I gave an example that I'm not unique in wanting REAL HARDWARE..not *EMULATED*. Yes my PB and G5 is old, so is an Amiga. Wanting the real deal is preferred to *me*.

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As far as emulation.. replace "Cego" with your name. Again, I dont care if you like to use an emulator. Have at it. I am happy with my hardware.



Cego:
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I think you're trying to convince yourself that OS4 emulated and emulating in general is best for everyone. That your ideals are best. Its ok if people have opinions of their own. I'm not the only one wanting to use *REAL HARDWARE*. You dont need to try and convince me that emulation is the best. I'm not interested in what you think or think you know.


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LMAO. You idiot.. you said you understood what I said. Now I know you didnt. Fool, go read the beginning of this reply. Nowhere did I state "who wants to use emulators". Reading comprehension. I'm here to teach. You are my student.

Now do I really need to break down every sentence I write. English isnt THAT hard to understand.

@TheMagicm

thanks for your lectures in "english"...

i wanted to write some more about that but keep it at that. If you are as good in english as you claim you understand what I mean...

I know that some people prefer "real" hardware to any sort of virtual environment and pay almost any prices for accellerators or other extensions (even for outdated ones) so even if emulation would be faster than say G5 they would still prefer the outdated hardware.

I only wrote that MorphOS would certainly get some new buyers/customers when supporting a virtual environment like UAE because many people are not interested to buy used mac hardware (be it for emotional reasons or just because they do not want to add another hardware because of no space) but would install MorphOS on their PCs when it would be easy and not too expensive. Perhaps these people would even buy dedicated hardware later because they like MorphOS. If that people are "users" in the sense of using it as main system for everyday use is doubtful but to be honest "who does that"? (except some hardcore fans)

@olafsch

I understand what you mean. I agree. There definitely are people who would use MorphOS or OS4 under WinUAE. I just enjoy real hardware even if it's old.

I rarely post here, so this is a totally outsiders view:

I don't like real machines anymore. I like to have everything virtual.

Hardware dies? Buy a new one, minimum install, restart my virtual machines and I am done.
Hardware is too slow? Buy a new one, minimum install, restart my virtual machines and I am done.
New system needed? Don't by new hardware, just create new virtual machine.

If you get used to that, you won't want a dedicated desktop machine (and an additional laptop maybe) to run MorphOS. You want a way (any way, UAE is fine here) to just launch it virtually.

Everybody is free to use whatever is available of course. But for someone like me, no matter how cheap the additional hardware is, I won't use it .

(And no, I am not a very modern computer user. Not many people using a shell in vi mode on Linux these days anymore).

Although I must admit, that I did not try AOS4 up to now. My WinUAE port does not yet support PPC, maybe it will change then .

I think some ppl in this discussion should think a bit about their tone. While being emotional stay polite and educated.
And remeber: the world is more than black and white. Amd while one thing may be true that doesn't mean that all others are wrong.

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I thought like this, too. Not anymore.
I used to have virtual Linux host machines on my real server for this and for that because I thought, as you, that when the hardware dies I have little effort and my VM is ready again.
I did that until I have actually seen how much resources and with that energy is wasted doing that.
After weeks my server system was unresponsive because after a while all resources were exhausted at the huge speed disadvantage VMs have.

VM, yes. Where it makes sense. But not if you can structure your stuff intelligently (for backup and simple recovery) on a real hardware.


Manfred

@TheMagicM

Your original question was:

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I tell you its 29,95 Euros

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Which is totally bullshit, because all you need is a x86 machine.

Then you start complaining about how garbage OS4 on UAE is and thats its not even as fast as a CSPPC, which is also pure bullshit from your side. Its already way faster, in some aspects even faster than some NG Amiga models.

And in case you wanna run MorphOS on new and available hardware, you'd have to pay even more.
When it comes to the alternatives you are pretty much cheaper with OS4.

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Now this is really you in bestform of bullshitting. hahahaha

I try to convince you? Thats how you comprehend what i say? Let me tell you this. I also wanna run MorphOS on real hardware and not emulated, but my personal taste isnt part of this discussion (at least from my side). I repeat it again for mentally retarded people like you: I am talking about the competitiveness of OS4.1 and MorphOS in general. Get it? it is not about my taste and my preferences.

Maybe you and i dont wanna run MorphOS in an emulator, but maybe hundreds of thousands of WinUAE users. and theres a huge market now for OS4.1, which means that they got a huge advantage now. Thats my point, nothing more, nothing less. I dont care what you prefer and like and what not.
And this is a huge plus for OS4.1.

Oh and when its too expensive for you to run OS4 natively, then go and get a second JOB! Thats how you put it right?

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well, actually it is a lot. because it offers you almost nothing in todays standards. But hey, you and i know, that MorphOS users are paying it mainly because of the love and affection they have towards that system. Go out and tell some normal sane people that they can buy an 10+ old laptop to run an operating system which doesnt even have a modern office solution or memory protection and that they would have to pay another 111 Euro for that system to be unlocked.
Everybodys doing it for the love and the enthusiasm of it. So just stop trolling against OS4. Some people like to spend 1000$, others are fine with a 300$ system. And both are overpriced for what they offer. period. But both options are just fine, theres nothing bad about it. i dont like OS4, just like AROS but i respect and tolerate everybodys decision. There is really no point in arguing about the price/performance ration in the amiga market.
Come to think that 68k systems are even much more expensive. hahaha. I hope you wont start trolling at the classics now...

And thanks for your "language" lessons, i do speak three languages and i'm pretty fine with that ;)

you moron.

[ Edited by Cego 22.02.2016 - 18:32 ]

double post.

[ Edited by Cego 22.02.2016 - 18:26 ]

Cego:

<nothing to reply>. Talked on IRC.

[ Edited by TheMagicM 22.02.2016 - 13:13 ]

yeah, we settled it on the IRC.

i apologize for my behaviour and harsh language. (now officially here on MZ)

Same here.. I apologize for the comments to Cego. Wasnt warranted.

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I'm so glad I registered at such a friendly site where opinion is freely expressed and people behave like mature adults...


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Yeah I noticed what a friendly place this is when people don't share the opinion of the "established" users ;) Arrogant WAS an accurate description IMHo


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Gosh... you realised being unpleasant to make your points made you look bad. Well done!

I messed around with an unregistered (30 minute interval) installation of MorphOS. Have a Mac Mini G4 1.5Ghz that was just collecting dust essentially. I was intrigued with Amiga back in the day and thought it would be fun to try out this OS. (And yeah, I know this is basically Amiga-ish)

I decided to go ahead and take the 79 EUR plunge - sure, would like a lower price,but developers gotta eat! And not really all that much cost - when on holiday can easily spend that much for one night at even a modest hotel.

For bringing an old computer back to life and having some geeky fun with it ... a bargain!

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I dont really care what it looks like. LMAO.

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Exactly. I've already had fun with my Mac mini for over 6 years with just one payment. Compare that to one night at a hotel or anything else you pay elsewhere...

@Cego

https://github.com/mmuman/qemu/tree/sam460ex-WIP-rebasing

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Of course every consumer would want a price (of any product) as close to 0 (zero) as possible, that's a given. No need to discuss that. And honestly, these license fees aren't *feeding* (like: put food on the table) any developers of the OS. But they want *something*, and this is what they ask. If you want what they offer, put the money on the counter, it's as simple as that.

I live in a country where most things are expensive (mostly due to high taxes). To add to your price comparison, I spent more than 79 EUR the last time I filled the tank of one of my two cars.

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What if you live in a country whre prices are low and wages, too? 79 EUR in sweden is on average earned with much lesser hours of work than 79 EUR with average work in other countries. E.g. what if you are unemployed in Greece? The advice (not by you) "get a 2nd job" is a bit snobish I'd say. The thing is: It's more or less only for ppl in rich countries and with a job. No prob with that and IMHO no urgend need to change that (the world is not fair). But at least one should stay honest. For most ppl (worldwide) it is expensive. As you rightly said: it's a market offer. Get it or leave it. I took the offer three times alredy.

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I gave up work to take care of my wife as she is severely disabled so I have far less income than most. It didn't take me long to save up the <100 Pounds licence fee. It's not like people can't even use MorphOS for free, rebooting every half an hour is a small price to pay that everyone can afford.

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I think most people are very understanding of the situation in poorer regions of the world. That said, the licensing cost is most frequently criticized on MorphZone by people who happen to live in the richest countries of the world. It is a rather interesting phenomenon...

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Transparency is fine. That said, the license fee is only part of the story. I think it is worth pointing out again that, by investing a substantial amount of time to port MorphOS to numerous PowerPC-based Macs, the financial barrier of entry for becoming a MorphOS user has already been lowered substantially compared to, say, the Pegasos days or newer non-Apple alternatives.

Plus, as intuition wrote, you can use the OS entirely for free if you do not mind rebooting occasionally. If money is a severe obstacle, that is a nice option to have for casual users.

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First world problems. So important! Lol

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I find this remark pretty odd. It's not a human right to be able to spend money on a hobby. I would not tell a poor person in Greece to suck it up, get a second job and get that MorphOS licence. I would tell him/her to get Linux.

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I don't see the oddity in my comment. I said it's more or less for ppl of the rich countries and that the world is not fair. Actually I am pretty happy to be on the lucky side. But I understand if others complain about the price, the own POV may differ from others POV.
Of course I don't understand if ppl complain about the price while bathing in a tub filled with Veuve Clicquot (or something like that)....
And as said: I took the offer three times already - I am not complaining for myself.

@Zylesea

I do get what you mean there, but I still think it's odd that _this_ particular hobby should be accessable to everyone and not, let's say, collecting stamps. OK, I guess you mean that while we think 79 euro is not so bad but it's pretty bad for a poor person. Which is true. But it's funny that this line of thought often comes up mostly when we talk about software. Like it's a bad thing to want to get some money out of your coding. Some people who claim house builders should have a fair wage are quick to say that everything should be free and open source. Like programmers aren't good people for wanting a pay check. Why is that exactly?

I'm going OT here but I find this topic interesting.

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If someone is unemployed, the last thing they need to be buying is an operating system. Maybe their goal should be finding a job, putting food on the table, paying bills and maybe later registering MorphOS. So, people that cant afford it have it for FREE, its called rebooting. I dont want to take food off the tables of MorphOS developers so I registered MorphOS. I can only imagine the Devs right now..trying to find a slice of bread to eat, crumbs falling on the keyboard, then them suctioning it up and eating the crumbs. Just imagine what a few pennies a day can do for a MorphOS Dev...puts a smile on their face, 2 slices of bread next to their C programming book and then they continue writing MorphOS NG, the ass kicking OS that fucks them all.