MorphZone

MorphOS on Sam460

Andreas_Wolf

# 176
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

>> no onboard SATA sound and GFX, none of them should be essential for MorphOS.

> If they port to the SAM 460 it would be enough to make working drivers for
> the onboard SATA and GFX

Not supporting any of those on-board components (SATA, audio, graphics), as suggested by Kronos, would be even more "enough" :-)

> If they port to the SAM 460cr they only need to port any non-supported add-ons.

What is that supposed to mean?

> They could ignore the on board chips on the SAM 460 of course and treat it like a SAM 460cr.

Yes, that's exactly what Kronos has suggested.
»08.11.14 - 12:54

Yasu

# 177
Paladin of the Pegasos

Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22

From: Stockholm, Sweden

Quote:

What is that supposed to mean?

I mean that there is the Radeon series (9250 etc) that I know is supported, but that maybe there are some other important stuffs that do need new drivers.
AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

My MorphOS blog
»08.11.14 - 13:19

vox

# 178
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25

From: Belgrade

Quote:

Yasu wrote:
Quote:

What is that supposed to mean?

I mean that there is the Radeon series (9250 etc) that I know is supported, but that maybe there are some other important stuffs that do need new drivers.

Well, going for CR style make MorphOS / Linux / AmigaOS usage dependent on supported SATA cards, sound card and graphic cards.

Little problem is that board has PCI-E big slot gone for gfx, PCI slot usually gone for SATA and PCI-E x1 slot left for sound card (or vice versa, for SATA card).

I would prefer if they did better (multiply devices supported) SATA onboard as with SAM440, even putting M9 Radeon (9200 class) onboard was great and faster solution on SAM440, but SAM460 is what it is.

Current MorphOS dilemma is: SoundBlaster Live! (emu10kx) is PCI only card AND
SiI3x1x two-port cards is also. No W3D gfx card is avail as PCI-E, and out of all supported I believe only ATI Radeon X800 XT and some high end 9800 models are.

This will make quite difficult supported platform unless drivers expand a bit - and since Radeons X800 are cheap and avail, I also think more of some PCI-E x1 SATA card or sound card.
------------------------------------------
iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
Lame PC with AmiKit XE
YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
Telegram Amiga group: https://t.me/amigaranchorelaxo
»10.11.14 - 12:43

Andreas_Wolf

# 179
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> putting M9 Radeon (9200 class) onboard was [...] faster solution on SAM440

Faster than the SM502 on the Sam460ex, but not faster than a PCIe graphics card.

> No W3D gfx card is avail as PCI-E, and out of all supported I believe only
> ATI Radeon X800 XT and some high end 9800 models are.

Radeon 9800 is not available as PCIe, and for the Radeon X800, the official Hardware Compatibility page lists no more than just the AGP-only R420 as the specific GPU supported.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATi_Radeon_R400_Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_R400_Series

Regarding Warp3D:
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=9544&start=64

Regarding PCIe graphics card support for Sam460:
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9876&forum=11&start=26
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9876&forum=11&start=36
»10.11.14 - 14:58

Andreas_Wolf

# 180
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

Addendum:

> "for the 460EX, I am not surprised things aren't working with KMS & DRI2...
> the 460 is not cache coherent"
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2012-February/019157.html
>
> "You will run into additional problems with 460 due to the fact that it's not
> cache coherent for DMA."
> http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2012-March/096888.html
>
> "DMA on 46x isn't cache coherent. The DRM plays interesting games with
> mapping/unmapping pages for DMA by the chip and I don't think we have the
> right hooks to do the appropriate cache flushing on these guys"
> http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2012-March/096925.html
>
> Is this contributing to the porting difficulty? I remember that
> Piru once said that MorphOS required cache coherency which he presented
> as reason that MorphOS couldn't be ported to MPC512x. If a MorphOS port
> to PPC460EX lacking cache coherency is possible, would that mean that a
> port to MPC512x is possible as well?

http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=news&id=131

And in more detail:

"on the 460ex CPU, coherency between memory and L2 cache can be managed via hardware snoop mechanism. Under some circumstances, the L2 controller may miss snoop-able write requestes and cause incoherency between L2 cache and main memory. To avoid this potential problem, the AOS4.1 kernel on Sam460 disable L2 cache write by default, slightly degrading performance. This utility enables L2 cache write and thus increases a little system performance. To be noted: IT MAY CAUSE SYSTEM INSTABILITY AND/OR DATA CORRUPTION if for some reason the OS perfom some operation which can cause incoherency between L2 cache and main memory, use it at your own risk ! [...] The best use of this utility is to run it before any intensive task (for example playing a movie) then disable it, and not leaving it enabled all the time, to avoid any potential coherency problem."
http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=utility/shell/l2cache.lha
»16.12.14 - 00:04

takemehomegrandma

# 181
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24

Quote:

Addendum:

> "for the 460EX, I am not surprised things aren't working with KMS & DRI2...
> the 460 is not cache coherent"
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dri-devel/2012-February/019157.html
>
> "You will run into additional problems with 460 due to the fact that it's not
> cache coherent for DMA."
> http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2012-March/096888.html
>
> "DMA on 46x isn't cache coherent. The DRM plays interesting games with
> mapping/unmapping pages for DMA by the chip and I don't think we have the
> right hooks to do the appropriate cache flushing on these guys"
> http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2012-March/096925.html
>
> Is this contributing to the porting difficulty? I remember that
> Piru once said that MorphOS required cache coherency which he presented
> as reason that MorphOS couldn't be ported to MPC512x. If a MorphOS port
> to PPC460EX lacking cache coherency is possible, would that mean that a
> port to MPC512x is possible as well?

http://www.acube-systems.biz/index.php?page=news&id=131

And in more detail:

"on the 460ex CPU, coherency between memory and L2 cache can be managed via hardware snoop mechanism. Under some circumstances, the L2 controller may miss snoop-able write
requestes and cause incoherency between L2 cache and main memory. To avoid this potential problem, the AOS4.1 kernel on Sam460 disable L2 cache write by default, slightly degrading performance. This utility enables L2 cache write and thus increases a little system performance. To be noted: IT MAY CAUSE SYSTEM INSTABILITY AND/OR DATA CORRUPTION if for some reason the OS perfom some operation which can cause incoherency between L2 cache and main memory, use it at your own risk ! [...] The best use of this utility is to run it before any intensive task (for example playing a movie) then disable it, and not leaving it enabled all the time, to avoid any potential coherency problem."
http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=utility/shell/l2cache.lha

Good thing that it at least is cheap. Oh, wait...
MorphOS is Amiga done right!
MorphOS NG will be AROS done right!
»16.12.14 - 00:37

Andreas_Wolf

# 182
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

Update:

> They're all listed as being "Out of stock" now.

Sam460cr listed as "Available":

https://acube-systemsbiz.serversicuro.it/shop/en/5-sam-motherboards
»08.01.15 - 23:18

Andreas_Wolf

# 183
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

Update:

> Postponed to a later release according to a comment from pega-1

If all goes well, the current state of MorphOS for the Sam460 will be shown end of February at Geit@Home event.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=810315
»06.02.15 - 17:43

vox

# 184
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25

From: Belgrade

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
Update:

> Postponed to a later release according to a comment from pega-1

If all goes well, the current state of MorphOS for the Sam460 will be shown end of February at Geit@Home event.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=810315

Looking forward to it. But yet that is public presentation, not release. But I do hope for public one some time this year
------------------------------------------
iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
Lame PC with AmiKit XE
YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
Telegram Amiga group: https://t.me/amigaranchorelaxo
»06.02.15 - 19:23

Andreas_Wolf

# 185
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

> Looking forward to it.

"MorphOS will be shown on a fully supported Sam460."
http://www.geit.de/eng_index.html

I guess "fully supported" means it will be a Sam460cr.
»14.02.15 - 16:53

geit

# 186
MorphOS Developer

Posts: 1031 from 2004/9/23

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> Looking forward to it.

"MorphOS will be shown on a fully supported Sam460."
http://www.geit.de/eng_index.html

I guess "fully supported" means it will be a Sam460cr.

No, AFAIK MorphOS detects the CR version, but fully supports the normal SAM460.
»14.02.15 - 18:53

Andreas_Wolf

# 187
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

>> I guess "fully supported" means it will be a Sam460cr.

> No, AFAIK MorphOS detects the CR version, but fully supports the normal SAM460.

So support for onboard video/audio (SM502) and onboard SATA then. Nice, I certainly didn't expect that.
»14.02.15 - 23:13

Andreas_Wolf

# 188
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

Update:

>> the last time Frank mentioned it, he was using an X1300 in the SAM

> Confirming screenshot from yesterday: [...]

Another one:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9767&forum=3&start=61

"Bus clock: 1018 MHz" (= CPU clock) for the system sounds odd, though.

And MorphOS on the Sam460 seems to support the same L2 cache specs ("available copyback, unified") as MorphOS on other machines.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/AmbientDesktop.png

Edit: Another one:
http://www.amiga-news.de/pics/x5000-morphos/IMG_2221.JPG
http://roschmyr.gmxhome.de/Sam460ex.jpg
(Also here, the bus clock is shown as being the same as the CPU clock)

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 12.04.2015 - 13:46 ]
»03.04.15 - 09:35

eliot

# 189
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 564 from 2004/4/15

Nice!
Looking forward to 3.8.
I have to buy a Sam.
regards
eliot
»03.04.15 - 11:05

takemehomegrandma

# 190
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24

Quote:

eliot wrote:
Looking forward to 3.8.

Me too!

Quote:

I have to buy a Sam.

You'd be much better off by buying a second hand PPC Mac instead.
MorphOS is Amiga done right!
MorphOS NG will be AROS done right!
»03.04.15 - 11:57

Cego

# 191
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 712 from 2006/5/28

From: Germany

so are there any internal benchmarks between MOS and OS4 yet? =)
Pegasos II G4 @1.0GHz, 1GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9200Pro, 240GB SSD+160GB HD, MorphOS 3.18, AmigaOS4.1 FE, Debian 8
»03.04.15 - 12:01

vox

# 192
Priest of the Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 524 from 2003/11/25

From: Belgrade

Quote:

Cego wrote:
so are there any internal benchmarks between MOS and OS4 yet? =)

There are a bit old benchmarks on Peg II - old in terms of OS versions and gfx cards (Radeon 9250). It shows MorphOS is superior in 95 percent of applications and tests, which will be beneficial for relatively slow (compared to G4) SAM.

http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http://obligement.free.fr/articles/amigaos41_vs_morphos23.php&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8

Since SAM460 MOS pictures shows Radeon X1300 (supported by OS4 as well) it will be interesting also to see future tests on a bit more modern gfx.

[ Edited by vox 03.04.2015 - 18:49 ]
------------------------------------------
iMac G5 1GB with MorphOS and MacOS X
Lame PC with AmiKit XE
YT channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
Telegram Amiga group: https://t.me/amigaranchorelaxo
»03.04.15 - 18:34

geit

# 193
MorphOS Developer

Posts: 1031 from 2004/9/23

Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> I thought it will run only on 460.

Same here.

> Is 440 officially confirmed! Hopefully yes.

Not as far as I'm aware. But reading the statement I quoted made me think I may have missed an announcement or so.

The MorphOS Team has no SAM440 board, so there won´t be any port.

MorphOS 3.8 will support the SAM460 and the SAM460CR only and there are no plans to support the SAM440 in the near future.
»03.04.15 - 18:59

In_Correct

# 194
Order of the Butterfly

Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14

From: DFW, TX, USA

Quote:

geit wrote:
Quote:

Andreas_Wolf wrote:
> I thought it will run only on 460.

Same here.

> Is 440 officially confirmed! Hopefully yes.

Not as far as I'm aware. But reading the statement I quoted made me think I may have missed an announcement or so.

The MorphOS Team has no SAM440 board, so there won´t be any port.

MorphOS 3.8 will support the SAM460 and the SAM460CR only and there are no plans to support the SAM440 in the near future.

If any Morphos User donates a SAM440 computer to a Morphos Developer, would this increase possibility of MorphOS ported to SAM440?
I Support Quark Microkernel.
»04.04.15 - 00:21

geit

# 195
MorphOS Developer

Posts: 1031 from 2004/9/23

Quote:

In_Correct wrote:
If any Morphos User donates a SAM440 computer to a Morphos Developer, would this increase possibility of MorphOS ported to SAM440?

The goal was to get a plattform which is still available in shops, as this was a wish from the users.

The SAM440 is (AFAIK) not available anymore and there is plenty of cheap MorphOS Hardware available already, which has more power and makes more sense.

I can only speak for myself here, but in my oppinion it simply makes no sense to spend any development time here. I can understand owners want to get their own boards supported.
»04.04.15 - 00:48

Andreas_Wolf

# 196
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

>>> I thought it will run only on 460.

>> Same here.

>>> Is 440 officially confirmed! Hopefully yes.

>> Not as far as I'm aware. But reading the statement I quoted made me think I may have
>> missed an announcement or so.

> The MorphOS Team has no SAM440 board, so there won´t be any port.

You just responded to posting #12 from August 2013 to which pega-1 already replied in posting #44 (August 2013 as well).
»04.04.15 - 02:04

Andreas_Wolf

# 197
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

Addendum:

> Piru once said that MorphOS required cache coherency which he presented as reason
> that MorphOS couldn't be ported to MPC512x. If a MorphOS port to PPC460EX lacking
> cache coherency is possible, would that mean that a port to MPC512x is possible as well?

Question answered, I guess:

"Quark: Improved support for systems that are not cache coherent
Exec: Improved support for systems without cache coherence support
IDE/SATA: Support for systems without cache coherence
USB/PCIUSB: EHCI/OHCI support for machines without cache coherence"
http://www.morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.8

Btw, Exec note says "Miscellaneous improvements to support the PPC440 family of CPUs". Shouldn't that say "PPC460" like the other notes do?

Edit: Missing cache coherency comes with some limitations, it seems.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 20.08.2022 - 00:22 ]
»15.05.15 - 12:47

Jim

# 198
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28

From: Delaware, USA

Oh well, its ready.
And 3.8 has some other nice surprises, some immediately apparent, others that will be once the more adventurous of us try it out.
"Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
»15.05.15 - 17:26

Andreas_Wolf

# 199
Yokemate of Keyboards

Posts: 12079 from 2003/5/22

From: Germany

Addendum:

>> As far as I read, its funded by Acube

> As far as I read, it isn't:
> https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=6918&start=90

More interesting history on how the port came about:

"The whole Sam460 port only exists because of the X5000. If the X5000 board would have been available earlier, there probably would not be a Sam port at all. The Sam460 and the X5000 are quite similar, so the SAM was used to adapt MorphOS years before the X5000 was available (for developers)."
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=11037&start=205
»10.06.16 - 08:54