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Well currently all drivers (Someone correct me if I'm wrong) all drivers in MorphOS run in the same space as the Exec kernel hence the desire to move to using Quark instead.

Genode uses a microkernel (L4 or a few other options/variants) and everything else including the Intel wireless drivers from Linux run outside of the kernel.

I don't see why it's an issue for you Jim.

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I will have to look at that, but they must have really struggled to pull that off.
And it would not be Linux based.
Linux IS the monolithic kernel that Linux based OS' run on top of.
Create an OS with a different kernel and its not Linux.

Further, do some of you (Andreas?) think we have a developer base that can create an OS that can utilize Linux drivers without simply defaulting to Linux?

You are asking for an enormous amount of work.

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There's not that many working on Genode and they are mostly CS students and their professors IIRC. Our developers are more than capable I reckon but whether they desire to add this capability is another story. It would be great (for us at least!) if they do though.

Even adding support for BSD drivers like Haiku and others have done would give us a lot of extra hardware support for "free" and wouldn't be a PITA licence-wise compared to using Linux drivers.


[ Edited by Intuition 09.05.2016 - 12:38 ]

> they are mostly CS students and their professors IIRC.

Genode Labs is a commercial company, founded in 2008 as a German GbR and transformed in 2010 into a German GmbH. The founders stem from academic research background.

http://www.genode-labs.com/company/index?lang=en

Double post

[ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 09.05.2016 - 15:51 ]

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But Apple uses XNU Darwin Kernel not a generic Linux kernel, and also they modifies the Kernel for their purposes... It is not a plain *nix kernel anymore.

BSD parts embedded into OSX provide other functions than Kernel, for example the roundrobin task scheduler in OSX is based upon that original BSD task scheduler.

Apple also made a great job of adapting the hybrid system born from the mix of BSD + Darwin Kernel to make it appeal as legacy Apple System OS, i.e. the new operating system uses HFS+ filesystem instead of EXT3/4 from linux world, it includes Apple made GUI and windows manager look&feel aspect equal to match legacy System 6/7/8/9 OS versions, in order to make users feel the same experience of their ancient operating systems, and in the end they adapted the naming system of elder MacOS versions and APIs to fit the new hybrid XNU/BSD system they created.

At these conditions I will accept an Amiga Operating System with an Alien Kernel, that is adapt this alien kernel to use more practical and lightweight Amiga-lookalike Windows Manager, similar to AmigaOS or Ambient, using superior AmigaOS/MorphOS filesystems like ICEFS, and Amiga naming system and Directory Structure (and I intend no crappy linux naming like linux /dev/sda1, dev/sda2, etc, but solid DH0: DH1: etc.,) and human names for directories (like System, Utilities, Devs, that are plain explicative in comparison to Linux developers named for-geeks-only 3 letters like for example USR, Bin, Dev, or 4 letters "Home"...)


I repeat myself... Only at these conditions that must include a complete "Amigafication" of the hosting kernel I could accept the use of an alien kernel ported into Amiga...

But if someone plans to make an Amiga environment hosted upon a complete running Linux environment like as with Hosted AROS, with all Linux inherited difficulties that make it unsuitable for end-user and all Linux hydiosincracies, like enormous unusable GUIs (and do not forget the worst: Linux is suitable for geeks only), then if THESE are the plans it is better you bat your hands with a stick renouncing, and thinking twice what you've intended to do...

@Jim

That said, I want to add that I agree mostly with Jim when he said we already own Quark Microkernel still waiting for more adoption of its native featueres, deprecating as most as ancient Amiga legacy as possible, that is getting rid of 1,5 Gigabytes RAM limit, 128Megabytes for Videocards RAM limit, and so on...

[ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 09.05.2016 - 16:11 ]

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I beg to differ.

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Students with venture capital then. ;)

> Students with venture capital then. ;)

They stopped being students (one as PhD, the other dropped out as PhD student) in 2008 right before the formation of the company.

http://www.genode-labs.com/company/founders?lang=en

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I agree, and that's what I meant by using another kernel while keeping what's good in MorphOS/Amiga.

But most people seem to think that using a Unix kernel, means Unix/Linux filesystem, Unix bash + Unix Command lines, XWindow, Unix Windows System, and so on...

Except that you missing my point.
What IS good is what differentiates it
Otherwise, why not use something more mainstream?



[ Edited by Jim 15.05.2016 - 12:49 ]

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Ahem, I beg your pardon... are you responding to Leo or to me?

[ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 10.05.2016 - 03:16 ]

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I probably don't completely understand your point of view Jim, but I also think you might be dismissing my point without thinking of the advantages in the big view, or long run. I am not a developer and don't have any idea how much work is involved to modify the MorphOS Quark kernel to be able to use Linux drivers (lets just use video card drivers as an example), but perhaps spending the required programming time and effort now would be worth it, if it means future Linux drivers would be easily incorporated into the new x64 MorphOS.

If MorphOS is going to have a long life, then doing the extra work now will pay off by saving more work in the future, when new drivers are needed.

The way I see it is if it is possible to modify the MorphOS kernel so it can use Linux drivers (inside the kernel, or outside of the kernel so it can remain a "microkernel"), it will be like adding dozens of Linux programmers to the MorphOS Dev. Team, because those Linux programmers who work on Linux drivers would be working on something that could be included in future MorphOS versions.

[ Edited by amigadave 10.05.2016 - 00:20 ]

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Ahem...?
Sorry, Leo and to some degree David.

Morphos x86 should be linux with Amiga graphics and gui.

Breaking Amiga legacy compatibility compatibility and still use outdated API for basic things like files,memory managment is stupid idea.

AROS is for example worthless crap because it has all the disadvantages of amiga os as lack of memory protection, no drivers, no support for multiple cores, problems with porting and it has not the most important advantage of the Amiga NG binary compatibility.

Thats why, 90% of old API should be replaced with unix, and only amiga graphics and gui should stay.

The sooner we go x86 the better. Just take example from Apple

> Morphos x86 should be linux with Amiga graphics and gui. Breaking Amiga legacy
> compatibility compatibility and still use outdated API for basic things like
> files,memory managment is stupid idea. [...] 90% of old API should be replaced
> with unix, and only amiga graphics and gui should stay.

You don't think the MorphOS team is capable of developing a modern API (save graphics and GUI) for MorphOS/x64?

> AROS is for example worthless crap because it has all the disadvantages of
> amiga os as lack of memory protection, no drivers, no support for multiple cores

AROS is intentionally made API-compatible with AmigaOS 3.x, which isn't supposed to be true for MorphOS/x64.

> it has not the most important advantage of the Amiga NG binary compatibility.

AROS/m68k has ;-)

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There is an easy solution for you.
Buy an PC, install Windows/ Linux on it. Then you have only to use an Amiga theme on Windows/ Linux

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MorphOS using Linux as a kernel would be very different than running Linux + some kind of Amiga theme, just like putting an Aqua theme on Linux doesn't make it MacOS X.

There is a lot more than a theme in OSX, just like there would be a lot more than a MorphOS/Amiga theme if they decided to use a Unix kernel (which they probably won't anyway).

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It would also be different than MorphOS.

This whole Linux discussion is a complete waste of Internet bandwidth anyway...

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Like at least 50% of recent discussions.

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That may be. ;)

I am not sure why this topic bothers me as I am fairly sure the developers have no interest in using a Linux base for MorphOS NG.

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You may are onto something here. :)

there have been already a Linux distro with Amiga theme, Commodore OS Vision! lol

I'm hoping for an ARMiga with MorphOS :)

[ Editiert durch Nimrod1971 11.05.2016 - 19:35 ]

> I might have to wait for the P5040 based variant.

It's approaching:

http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/CyrusPlusPlus2.jpg