> An AWN user claims MorphOS 3.10 is
> indeed being delayed until the X5000 is released with OS4.1.
> Is this the speculation of an average user? Or is it based on some specific knowledge?

Same claim was made in the past already:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40693&forum=33#772590
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40882&forum=14&start=100#777673

As to who AWN user "Beans" is:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41329&forum=15#787101

> as a speculating end user it looks like 3.10 is being delayed because of
> OS4.1 for X5000 taking forever and the MorphOS Team are being gentlemen,
> not wanting to throw A-Eonkit under the bus.

Why would releasing MorphOS 3.10 with X5000 support before the X5000 release mean "to throw A-Eonkit under the bus"?

Quote:

Get your facts straight, I haven't been a moderator at any website for over a year, probably close to 2 years.

I'll be quiet as soon as you will.

> The problem with the Sam460 may be the lack of overlapping graphics
> card 2D hardware acceleration support between AmigaOS 4.1 and MorphOS.

Yes, this and no audio on the Sam460cr.

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11256&start=18
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=11037&start=213
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=126

> I could go out and sell AmigaTWO branded condoms for all the connection that has.

You could even brand them "Amiga".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_(Nice)_Classification_of_Goods_and_Services#List_of_Classes_.2810th_edition.29

> "AmigaONE" X5000 is just an overpriced 2003 board

2007, see comment #320 :-)

> Dump this shit already.

"MorphOS developers said no." ;-)

> the quad core X5000 was be almost 50% more powerful than my current Quad core G5.

In which benchmark?

>> the quad core X5000 was be almost 50% more powerful than my current Quad core G5.

> But a lot less powerful with one core

...as would be the quad-core G5. It doesn't matter if you compare four cores against four cores or one core against one core.

Any other options for MorphOS sound on the X5000 apart from a pci Soundblaster Live! ? .

Quote:

Quote:

Support for built in sound is included for most systems including the SAM460ex.
At one time there was a third party driver for VIA Envy24 based cards, but that has not been updated.

All supported hardware is listed here:

http://www.morphos.de/hardware

But for some reason that fails to mention that supported laptops (iBook, PowerBook) also have sound support.
And we don't know what they have planned for the X5000, but since that has both PCI and PCIe X1 expansion slots, it shouldn't be a problem.



[ Edited by Jim 19.09.2016 - 19:54 ]

Quote:

Well, at least AeonKit seems to be considering CMI8738 PCIe cards for the X5000, so...

Quote:


Whatever they decide on, our developers can write drivers for (probably faster than their developers). No big deal.
Besides, we could always pull out those cards and install an SB Live (the X5000 has PCI slots).
For that matter, I don't need updated video drivers either, I could just plug in a Radeon X1950XTX - fast, last card with 2D acceleration, 512MB of vram. Those two would hold me.
Plus there is a rumor floating around that we don't have a native lan driver for the X5000.
Again, who needs it, we can just plug in a supported network or wireless card.

The one thing we don't need is OS4, and THAT'S what's holding us up.

> Trevor [...] tried to convince me to NOT buy an X1000, and instead, wait for the X5000.

That's real business sense ;-)

> it was too late to get an X1000 from the first production batch, by the time I made up
> my mind to purchase one

This must have been after AmiWest 2011, then.

>>> I think you understood my previous post

>> No, I genuinely didn't, because speaking about profit for Trevor/A-Eon when the
>> NRE costs are not factored into the sale price is beyond me.

> NO! It is not beyond you, because you just explained it to the other forum member(s)
> in one of your other replies.

No, I didn't explain to anyone that speaking about profit for Trevor/A-Eon makes sense when the NRE costs are not factored into the sale price.

> Profit is an inappropriate word perhaps, when the development costs are removed
> from the calculations for determining the retail sales price of the X1000

Not just "perhaps".

> AmigaKit made a profit on each sale of an X1000

Yes, but Leaman Computing Ltd. ("AmigaKit") is not A-Eon Technology Ltd. Total liabilities of A-Eon as of 2015 are 673,400 GBP. Can you guess who the main creditor is?

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9362&forum=9&start=22

> It is unclear if Trevor and A-Eon made a small amount of money on each sale, broke
> even, or suffered a small loss (on top of the huge loss of the development costs).

If development costs could be ignored, I think it's a save bet that A-Eon would have made money. But it should be obvious that development costs can't be ignored when it comes to commercial projects. They have to be recouped, else it's nothing short of a commercial failure.

> OS4, [...] THAT'S what's holding us up.

That's not true, according to MorphOS team member geit in comment #413.

Quote:

Absolutely right.
I rarely quote emails anymore (its not fair to the sender), but I got this from Bigfoot this morning "The release of MorphOS 3.10 is not in any way tied to the X5000".
I don't think he would mind that being repeated.

> I got this from Bigfoot this morning "The release of MorphOS 3.10 is not in
> any way tied to the X5000". I don't think he would mind that being repeated.

Yes, neither here nor on amigaworld.net, I guess ;-)

Quote:

Wouldn't know, I haven't posted anything about that message on AmigaWorld.
Feel free to do so if you'd like. ;)

I'm sure they will get around to mentioning it.

And that is one of the few times you are going to see me quote a direct email, I made the mistake of misquoting Frank once, and I don't think he has forgiven me for that yet.
I value anything these guys may mention, so I'm (learning) not to comment on those kind of emails.
So... its STFU time.

>>> I don't think he would mind that being repeated.

>> Yes, neither here nor on amigaworld.net, I guess ;-)

> Wouldn't know, I haven't posted anything about that message on AmigaWorld.

Exactly, that's what I meant. You were spreading false information here on MorphZone and also the correction afterwards. On amigaworld.net you did only one of those two things so far (multiple times).

> Feel free to do so if you'd like. ;)

I don't have an account there.

Quote:

You may have known it was false, I on the other hand did not and I don't appreciate the innuendo. Unlike you, I don't spend all my time reaserching this stuff.
AND, when I was corrected by someone who would know, I posted it here.

AmigaWorld? Maybe later.

Edit - Ah, fug it, retraction post on AW as well.
With apologies to all.

Jim Igou


[ Edited by Jim 20.09.2016 - 17:52 ]

> You may have known it was false

Yes, from MorphOS team members who said so in public over the past months.

> I on the other hand did not

No reason to claim it as fact, then.

> I don't appreciate the innuendo.

Which innuendo?

> Unlike you, I don't spend all my time reaserching this stuff.

True, there should always be some proportionality between the kind and amount of public claims and the time spent for researching the underlying facts.

> retraction post on AW as well.

Appreciated that you did, but not at all the incentive stated there. I had hoped you felt it was simply the right thing to do.

Quote:

Occasionally, I can manage to figure out the "right thing to do" without prompting.
BUT, I must admit to some negation to that drive after interacting with you on this.

And yes, while you may not appreciate it, part of the incentive was what I posted.
Maybe not the whole reason, but I do take into consideration your opinion.

Quote:

I don't think that the X1000 was expected to be a commercial success by anyone. I believe that Trevor knew going in that he was not going to get the development costs recouped, but he just wanted a new AmigaOne to run AmigaOS4.x on, and he had the spare money to spend on his favorite hobby. Also, there is no evidence that A-Eon made any money from X1000 sales, regardless of development costs. From comments Trevor has made from time to time, the impression I have gotten is that he was losing money on every X1000 sale, but that is only an impression, and I have no evidence of A-Eon's accounting, or actual costs for each X1000 system sold.

I think I am not the only person who was surprised that Trevor wanted to continue producing AmigaOne hardware (which sadly also has almost zero chance of recouping development costs), once he had his own X1000 in his hands.

I wonder who is paying the Hyperion Entertainment developers to port AmigaOS4.1FE to the X5000 and Tabor boards? It seems that A-Eon will pay Hyperion Entertainment a license fee for the AmigaOne name, plus pay for one copy of AmigaOS4.1FE to be included with each X5000 and Tabor sale, but I must assume that A-Eon is not in charge of, or paying developers for doing the porting work, or it would have been done sooner than now. Hyperion does not appear to have the funds to port AmigaOS4.1FE in a timely fashion to any new hardware.

Edit: Hyperion Entertainment also does not have the funds or developers to complete AmigaOS4.2 at all (or at least it seems that way).

[ Edited by amigadave 21.09.2016 - 00:05 ]

> I must admit to some negation to that drive after interacting with you on this.
> [...] part of the incentive was what I posted.

Well, everybody is responsible for his/her own credibility he/she is attributed by others. To me, retracting/correcting false assumptions/claims I made (especially in public) is an important part of this. But that's just me :-)

> I don't think that the X1000 was expected to be a commercial success by anyone.

I expected at least a break even target. When Trevor later revealed he was not going to recoup NRE costs, I was very surprised, and I remember others were as well.

> there is no evidence that A-Eon made any money from X1000 sales, regardless
> of development costs. From comments Trevor has made from time to time, the
> impression I have gotten is that he was losing money on every X1000 sale

The impression I got was that the turning point was when the PA6T unit price almost doubled from 500 to 975 USD (before it went down to 600 USD again), and the price increase was not passed on to the customer (see comment #54).

> I [...] was surprised that Trevor wanted to continue producing AmigaOne
> hardware (which sadly also has almost zero chance of recouping development
> costs), once he had his own X1000 in his hands.

He announced his plans for follow-up systems way before he got his own X1000, so I was not surprised about that. Regarding the recouping of NRE costs for the new boards, is there a public statement on this that I missed? So far, Trevor has said in public (e.g. AmiWest 2012) that he indeed intends to recoup NRE costs with follow-up systems to the X1000.

> I wonder who is paying the Hyperion Entertainment developers to port AmigaOS4.1FE
> to the X5000 and Tabor boards?

I think the Hyperion developers are being paid by Hyperion for this, and Hyperion in turn is being paid by A-Eon for this. Historically, it was a fixed amount (20,000 EUR a decade ago) that Hyperion requested for an OS4 port to any PPC board. I don't know if that's still the case.

> I must assume that A-Eon is not in charge of, or paying developers for doing the
> porting work, or it would have been done sooner than now.

A-Eon is surely not paying the developers directly, yes, else A-Eon wouldn't point to Hyperion everytime they are asked about the status of OS4 porting to A-Eon's boards/systems.

Quote:

Yep, just you. You keep thinking that way.
After all, we all have to live with ourselves, and I'm comfortable.

In the meanwhile, if we're done.

Quote:

Speculative, but quite possibly true.
And if they did, would anyone get it as a free upgrade (like Aeon customers)?

I do share your opinion on Trevor's financial gain (or lack thereof).
He's paying Varisys well for their role, and the entire project has been totally professional.
Quite a nice change for the AmigaOne market.

Also the third party additions he's sponsoring for OS4.1 are shaping up nicely.

The question I have been pondering is, does Hyperion deserve all the criticism it gets over its slow delivery and inability to finance the development of future versions of AmigaOS?

If you look at it from a strictly economic sense, they haven't made much money on this and they are still persistently pushing forward. If the aren't generating the funds they need to move faster, who is at fault?

Not everybody can afford Trevor Dickenson's level of commitment.